That is what I thought was done Carl. As you see the car is advertised as having a wider track. Either the wheels are wider or the offset is different or the chassis parts are different. Given the claim that there is more car between the wheels it would seem to me that offset was used do accomplish this. Will be interested in your findings as I never thought Canadian Pontiacs were wide trackers.
-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 30th of August 2012 12:51:02 PM
4SPEED427 said
Aug 30, 2012
Rather than totally derail the "New York Times"thread (yeah, I know, I'm usually the king of derailing....) I figured I'd ask the question in a new thread.
Are you guys saying there that you think the stock wheels from a late 60's Canadian Pontiac are different than the same era Impala? (to create the wide track look)
I would have guessed they are identical. I plan to check in the parts books to verify unless someone already has done that.
Canadian Poncho said
Aug 30, 2012
It will be interesting to see what you find Carl.
427carl said
Aug 30, 2012
I am not sure but I would guess that the American cars may have used the 14 inch station wagon wheels The 8 lug optional wheels were 15 inch and wider
CdnGMfan said
Aug 30, 2012
The wider 6" wheels as a standard item on Canadian Pontiacs really came in for the 1968 model year. Full-size Chevy & Cdn Poncho wagons were already using the wider wheels back to 1965 (I think). Wouldn't the wider wheel actually affect the offset slightly all by itself as a function of how offset is measured?
73SC said
Aug 30, 2012
This wording in the ad is consistent with the 1969 wording as well.
-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 30th of August 2012 10:57:28 PM
In the '68 Brochure it states: 63.5" front tread (a wider tread for the Wide-Track ride). Also states: low-profile 8.25x14" tires - 63.4 rear tread. And 14x6" Wide-Track safety rims. So must be all in the rims and tires. I scanned the page but Brochure is larger than my scanner.
-- Edited by jc on Friday 31st of August 2012 12:41:09 AM
The Canadian ads I've seen for the 1968 2+2 have all stated they were a wide-track for sure.............. That's about all I know. I'm interested in knowing what the chassis differences are now and when they designed the criteria for a "wide-track" car.
4SPEED427 said
Aug 31, 2012
One question before I state my findings-
Are we all in agreement that the frame (or complete rolling chassis for that matter) will interchange between same model year Canadian Pontiac and Chevrolet B bodies?
As far as the wheels go, I spent time in both parts book and with only one exception, the wheels listed for 66-70 b bodies are all the same numbers. The one exception is a Chev wheel listed. It's a 15X5 for 1st design 68 Chev and the number for it appears nowhere in the Pontiac book. However, about 12 other numbers are the same between both lines so I am sure we are safe in saying the "Wide Track" Canadian Pontiac is NOT a Wide Track.
Cheviac said
Aug 31, 2012
I found a Poncho ad that my limited computor skills will not allow me to post, but it states, Quote, Pontiac rides on wide track for 1968. Wheels and tires are wider, set further apart so there's more car between the wheels. end Quote. Kind of ambiguous don't you think? It's definately a Canadian ad as the powerplant spec'd is the 327 or the optional 396 or 427. Wish I could figure out how to post the ad....damn.
4SPEED427 said
Aug 31, 2012
Cheviac wrote:
I found a Poncho ad that my limited computor skills will not allow me to post, but it states, Quote, Pontiac rides on wide track for 1968. Wheels and tires are wider, set further apart so there's more car between the wheels. end Quote. Kind of ambiguous don't you think? It's definately a Canadian ad as the powerplant spec'd is the 327 or the optional 396 or 427. Wish I could figure out how to post the ad....damn.
I don't know how they can say that. We know for a fact that a 12 bolt from a 65 is identical to a 12 bolt from a 70 and all years in between.
Next thing is to find the tracking for the front wheel, maybe in a brochure?
I have a 66 Grande Parisienne and a 65 Catalina. The wheels are different, will have to take a closer look when I get new tires for the 66. I know the bolt patterns are different for sure and the 65 wheels look wider. Not by much, by wider.
Cheviac said
Aug 31, 2012
Carl, just tried to send you the ad but failed, I'm looking at the picture and can't mail it, so frustrating. I pulled it from an american pontiac website that pointed out that these are not american cars though they apear to be. Note the ad doesn't say the suspension is wide track, the WHEELS and TIRES are. To me that implies a wide track stance like the american cars but not really. By the way....ever tried to put a 6 inch ralley on an american 66? The rear axle is so wide you have to unbolt the shock to drop the axle far enough to get the wheel on.
So it says you won't find another car with a wider front track. They are saying they widened the front only? Seems odd.
Beaumont4008 said
Aug 31, 2012
From what I could find on line 68 impala front track 62.5 rear 62.4 68 Parisienne 63.5 front and 63.4 rear. Looks like and inch difference.
4SPEED427 said
Aug 31, 2012
I just don't get how the rear track can be any different when we know the housing and axles interchange from 65-70 Pontiac and Chevy.
Beaumont4008 said
Aug 31, 2012
Look at the 69 brochure. Just about every page says wide track. Also shows track as 63.5 and 63.4. Maybe just wider tires alround.
73SC said
Aug 31, 2012
No question Pete, I can spot a US Pontiac from 50 yards away. There was a 62 Grand Prix at Autofest with the 8 lug wheels and that pretty much defines the wide track look. The GP was lower and appeared wider not to mention longer than a comparable Canadian car like a Parisienne.
-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 31st of August 2012 09:02:07 AM
last one in picture says says 'wider track for "wide track ride" def. trying to copy the US wide track selling point. I'd say the "offset" on the wheel is where they are getting the 1"
73SC said
Aug 31, 2012
dualquadpete wrote:
last I'd say the "offset" on the wheel is where they are getting the 1"
This is what I always thought to be true and in reading the copy it all dicusses wheels and wider tires for that Wide Track ride.
Beaumont4008 said
Aug 31, 2012
From what I can see from sales brochures canadian and U.S. from 59 to 64, canadian cars were tracking at 60.3 front and 62.5 back same as chevy. The U.S. cars were tracking at 62.5 front and 64 rear. Big difference. From 65 to 67 Canadain cars tracking at 62.5 front and 62.4 rear also same as chevy. U.S. cars tracking at 63 front and 64 rear. Canadian pontiacs and chevy cars catching up to the front tracking . Only 1/2 in. difference. By 68 and 69 The Canadian pontiac passed them in the front tracking by 1/2 in. 63.5 front and 63.4 rear U.S. cars 63 front and 64 rear. Interesting for sure.
As a side note 68 to 69 chevy remained the same 62.5 front and 62.4 rear. Looks like 68 and 69 was the push in Canada for the Wide track angle for Pontiac.
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Friday 31st of August 2012 02:36:07 PM
73SC said
Aug 31, 2012
Pontiacanada wrote:
I'd like to park my '64 next to your '64 and see the simularities/differences.
Magician40, Brian and Doug Williams did just that at Chris Pointons place last month. I wasn't there but Brian tells me the Bonneville trunk was measured to be 2 feet longer. Brian also mentioned that his 4 speed 300 HP 327 was quicker than the tri power 389 Bonneville, of course that isn't a surprise since the CS has a superior power to weight ratio.
-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 31st of August 2012 08:41:35 PM
4SPEED427 said
Aug 31, 2012
Chevy should have been promoting their Wide Track Biscayne as well it seems!
73SC said
Aug 31, 2012
"Wide Track" and associated wording was more than likely trademarked by Pontiac.
That is what I thought was done Carl. As you see the car is advertised as having a wider track. Either the wheels are wider or the offset is different or the chassis parts are different. Given the claim that there is more car between the wheels it would seem to me that offset was used do accomplish this. Will be interested in your findings as I never thought Canadian Pontiacs were wide trackers.
-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 30th of August 2012 12:51:02 PM
Are you guys saying there that you think the stock wheels from a late 60's Canadian Pontiac are different than the same era Impala? (to create the wide track look)
I would have guessed they are identical. I plan to check in the parts books to verify unless someone already has done that.
I am not sure but I would guess that the American cars may have used the 14 inch station wagon wheels The 8 lug optional wheels were 15 inch and wider
The wider 6" wheels as a standard item on Canadian Pontiacs really came in for the 1968 model year. Full-size Chevy & Cdn Poncho wagons were already using the wider wheels back to 1965 (I think). Wouldn't the wider wheel actually affect the offset slightly all by itself as a function of how offset is measured?
This wording in the ad is consistent with the 1969 wording as well.
-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 30th of August 2012 10:57:28 PM
In the '68 Brochure it states: 63.5" front tread (a wider tread for the Wide-Track ride). Also states: low-profile 8.25x14" tires - 63.4 rear tread. And 14x6" Wide-Track safety rims. So must be all in the rims and tires. I scanned the page but Brochure is larger than my scanner.
-- Edited by jc on Friday 31st of August 2012 12:41:09 AM
Are we all in agreement that the frame (or complete rolling chassis for that matter) will interchange between same model year Canadian Pontiac and Chevrolet B bodies?
As far as the wheels go, I spent time in both parts book and with only one exception, the wheels listed for 66-70 b bodies are all the same numbers. The one exception is a Chev wheel listed. It's a 15X5 for 1st design 68 Chev and the number for it appears nowhere in the Pontiac book. However, about 12 other numbers are the same between both lines so I am sure we are safe in saying the "Wide Track" Canadian Pontiac is NOT a Wide Track.
I found a Poncho ad that my limited computor skills will not allow me to post, but it states, Quote, Pontiac rides on wide track for 1968. Wheels and tires are wider, set further apart so there's more car between the wheels. end Quote. Kind of ambiguous don't you think? It's definately a Canadian ad as the powerplant spec'd is the 327 or the optional 396 or 427. Wish I could figure out how to post the ad....damn.
I don't know how they can say that. We know for a fact that a 12 bolt from a 65 is identical to a 12 bolt from a 70 and all years in between.
Next thing is to find the tracking for the front wheel, maybe in a brochure?
From another thread posted originally by Todd.
I know the bolt patterns are different for sure and the 65 wheels look wider. Not by much, by wider.
Carl, just tried to send you the ad but failed, I'm looking at the picture and can't mail it, so frustrating. I pulled it from an american pontiac website that pointed out that these are not american cars though they apear to be. Note the ad doesn't say the suspension is wide track, the WHEELS and TIRES are. To me that implies a wide track stance like the american cars but not really. By the way....ever tried to put a 6 inch ralley on an american 66? The rear axle is so wide you have to unbolt the shock to drop the axle far enough to get the wheel on.
From what I could find on line 68 impala front track 62.5 rear 62.4 68 Parisienne 63.5 front and 63.4 rear. Looks like and inch difference.
Look at the 69 brochure. Just about every page says wide track. Also shows track as 63.5 and 63.4. Maybe just wider tires alround.
No question Pete, I can spot a US Pontiac from 50 yards away. There was a 62 Grand Prix at Autofest with the 8 lug wheels and that pretty much defines the wide track look. The GP was lower and appeared wider not to mention longer than a comparable Canadian car like a Parisienne.
-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 31st of August 2012 09:02:07 AM
This is what I always thought to be true and in reading the copy it all dicusses wheels and wider tires for that Wide Track ride.
From what I can see from sales brochures canadian and U.S. from 59 to 64, canadian cars were tracking at 60.3 front and 62.5 back same as chevy. The U.S. cars were tracking at 62.5 front and 64 rear. Big difference. From 65 to 67 Canadain cars tracking at 62.5 front and 62.4 rear also same as chevy. U.S. cars tracking at 63 front and 64 rear. Canadian pontiacs and chevy cars catching up to the front tracking . Only 1/2 in. difference. By 68 and 69 The Canadian pontiac passed them in the front tracking by 1/2 in. 63.5 front and 63.4 rear U.S. cars 63 front and 64 rear. Interesting for sure.
As a side note 68 to 69 chevy remained the same 62.5 front and 62.4 rear. Looks like 68 and 69 was the push in Canada for the Wide track angle for Pontiac.
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Friday 31st of August 2012 02:36:07 PM
Magician40, Brian and Doug Williams did just that at Chris Pointons place last month. I wasn't there but Brian tells me the Bonneville trunk was measured to be 2 feet longer. Brian also mentioned that his 4 speed 300 HP 327 was quicker than the tri power 389 Bonneville, of course that isn't a surprise since the CS has a superior power to weight ratio.
-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 31st of August 2012 08:41:35 PM
"Wide Track" and associated wording was more than likely trademarked by Pontiac.