Rather than step on toes and derail the other thread about power window motor replacement, I thought I'd start fresh.
Not too much to show so far. Today I drilled the one hole that needs drilled to do this, and punched out the two factory plugs that are all set up for the conversion.
On the left is the one that gets drilled. It's behind the kick panels. The factory is nice enough to put a dimple where it's supposed to go. Unfortunately, that dimple is for the assembly line and it's reversed if you are doing a conversion with the front fender on (unlike on the line) but that's easy enough to cure. I just took a die grinder and ground down the tiny little bump that is there, then used the 2" hole saw. It's the plug in the left of the pic.
Middle in the pic is the plug that you punch out of the pillar, between the door hinges. It's held in with a couple of spot welds, and the angle is nasty so it's a toughy. I used a die grinder, ground a small hole in it, then used a long shaft from an old pry bar and hammered the plug in. The hole needs to be ground so the corner of the pry bar has something to grab on to.
Right in the pic is the oval plug in the door. Same deal as the pillar plug. Ugly angle, grind a hole, insert pry bar and hammer it in.
This is how the hole looks that needs to be drilled behind each kick panel, passenger side shown. I fished all the wires through for windows, vents and locks too. I don't even have the lock conversion totally figured out yet (actuator mounting) but if you ever do a conversion, believe me, it's easier to fish the wires through now rather than later. What I did was have the wires not yet installed in the car, then fished them through the boots, then wiggled/twisted/pulled the boots with wires already in them through those 3 holes. Not simple but the easier of the two, at least so I've found it in the past.
I didn't start removing the manual regulators yet but I don't think the last guy in there was too mechanically inclined. Check the angle of the bolt. Can you say crossthreaded?
I see the bolt angle doesn't even look so bad in the picture but that is tight and it's still got 1/4" to go!
65wagon said
Dec 8, 2012
you have been busy, it must be tough working inside, and yes i am envious, you are progressing nicely
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
It's nice and warm in the garage, makes it easy to go out there. Attached too, so I don't even have to go outside. Of course, it's way too small......
I treated myself tonight. I think I worked late in there every night this week plus almost all day today, so I came in shortly after 9 tonight for a break.
It was fun today, I had our son with me in there most of the day. He is just finishing up his first semester at university and wanted to spend the day working with me. Can't beat days like that!
65wagon said
Dec 8, 2012
ah it just makes ya tougher working outside in the cold, hack hack, caugh ,sniffle. I love working with my little guy he's always ready for fun with dad, whats your boy taking if you dont mind me asking.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
I can't even spell it! Kinesiology???? He wants to teach phys ed. This semester was biology, math, geography and english. So far he loves it and he's paying his own way through university, so it's ALL good!!!
65wagon said
Dec 8, 2012
as long as he enjoys himself. my wife loves teaching, but it doesnt pay the bills, im two years away but run heavy equipment, 9500 a month to 2600 big difference. i would love to teach but it will have wait.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
$2600 teaching? First year here is more than that apparently. Wow, that would be tough to pay bills on that.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
I think he told me they are a bit over 3000/month to start here. He's not home right now or I'd ask.
I know he did tell me that after 10 years they're at around $75,000 year. A guy can live on that, or less!
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
Smart comments are always fun, I'm sure you'll rebound shortly!
Hopefully start ripping out the glass, regulators and vent frames tomorrow. I have to slip away for a friend's dad's funeral though.
I'm looking forward to having a car with power vent windows again. It's always fun to see people giggle when you operate them! Most people have never seen such a thing.
Elroy said
Dec 8, 2012
thats real cool Carl. Must have stripped out an old Buick or did the Pontiacs come with that option too ? That's neat your boy is helping with the cars and paying his way through school, good on him !!
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
The power windows came out of a wrecking yard 66 Pontiac, the power vents are Cadillac pieces (same as Buick, Olds or Pontiac though) and the power lock actuators are later years. I think I pulled them out of a mid 70's Caprice about 25 years ago. The power lock switches are a one year only, 1970 switch. They are the only year that the switch is the old round style bezel (to match the power window switches) and the locks are electric as well. Earlier than 70 they are vacuum switches, 1971 and up is electric but the bezels are the square style. I lucked out on the switches years ago in a 1970 Olds in a small wrecking yard. Now they reproduce them for 70 bucks each but for years they were unobtanium.
Lots of scrounging. It's a toss up whether I love doing these conversions more, or scrounging for this stuff in yards more!
Elroy said
Dec 8, 2012
neat stuff Carl ! Makes a great conversation piece down the road for sure too !
4SPEED427 said
Dec 8, 2012
Well, I got started at least but not too much progress today. I figured I'd try to detail this for anyone who has never done it.
Removed the vent frame/glass assembly first. That comes out real easy. 1 little screw at the top at the back corner of the vent, 1 bolt and 2 nuts holding the framework in, 3 bolts holding the vent gearbox to the door and 1 bolt holding the gearbox to the vent assembly. The 2 nuts with the big washers have a long stud to the vent frame. I think it could be removed as a unit but I removed the studs first because they stick out quite a bit and make it tougher to pull it up through the door opening.
I see my replacement tinted vent assembly, although listed as a correct interchange, is missing a small bracket at the lower rear of the glass where one phillips screw holds the frame to the door. I am not sure if I will attempt to alter the tint frame to accept that bracket.
At the top rear of the door you see a rectangular opening angled about 45 degrees. There is a window stop there that needs removed for the window to come out. The stop just uses one bolt.
To remove the window regulator, first remove the 2 bolts circled in yellow.
Slide the channel that those bolts held until it's at the end and wiggle the roller out of the track. The window regulator comes out by removing 4 bolts. Beware that when the 4th bolt is pulled the window will fall down in to the door. I just hold the window up, put the regulator down into the bottom of the door, then remove the window. After that the regulator will come out easily.
To install the power window, I first put the power regulator in the position as shown, with the scissor almost horizontal. Make sure the short arm of the pivoting arm is to the top, roller facing away, same as the roller on the long regulator solid arm.
Then I set the regulator in the bottom of the door. Now is where I needed about 4 arms! I lowered the window in and wiggled the top two rollers into the channel that is attached to the window. The window needs to be held in place while the regulator is lifted from the bottom of the door and the 4 bolts attached. Note that the power window regulator uses only one of the manual regulator holes. It uses the 4 circled in red.
I also changed to tinted glass and the tint had no hardware. There was no way I could get the 3 big washers unstuck from the bottom of the clear glass and those have to be used. Finally, although I knew it was risky, I applied the heat gun for a very short time to each washer and they came off wonderfully! I am sure prolonged heat on the glass would pop it though, so I was very careful to be brief.
This is as far as I got.
They tell me it's movie night here. I watch about 1 movie every 6 months but apparently it's Cars2 tonight so I gotta watch!
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Saturday 8th of December 2012 08:40:11 PM
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Saturday 8th of December 2012 10:44:56 PM
I thought I was done for the night but when the car bug bites, it can be a powerful bite! Back I went to do some more.
I went to put the vent glass in and didn't like that the one little bracket for the phillips screw was not on the tint vent assembly. I had never dismantled a vent assembly, but the old logic "a human built it, so I can take it apart" took over. These things are simple, now that I know. 3 screws basically and it's apart. I switched the tinted glass over to the GP vent frame and installed it.
Later, as I was cleaning up, I decided to put the clear glass in the tint frame just to put them into storage. Nope. Can't do it without modifying the one little hole where the flat shaft on the bottom of the glass pokes through a bracket. You likely can't see it in the picture, but by my thumb is a small hole. On the clear frame, the round hole has 2 notches, 180 degrees apart on the circle. The flat shaft on the clear glass has a tab on each side that fits through there when you are assembling it. The flat shaft on the tint glass has a tab on one side that fits through there when you are assembling it. Thus, the tint glass (one tab) will fit either circle, but the clear glass (two tabs) will only fit the circle with 2 notches...Can you see the difference???
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 11:48:27 PM
Nice work Carl. These kinds of conversions take a lot of time and patience but they are well worth the end result.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 9, 2012
Wow, guess I could have at least cleaned the glass for that last picture!
Pontiacanada said
Dec 9, 2012
That is amazing Carl! I'll be looking back at this for the removal of the power windows in my parts car. Thanks.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 16, 2012
I figured I'd post up my experience installing the 1/4 window. The right side was a battle. It's so long since I did this on my first GP in the 70's that I forgot most of it!
I installed it all in these steps on the left side and it worked a lot better:
1) Put the double window track into the body but just leave it loose, and set it farthest away from you in the body, leaning up against the inside of the quarter panel.
2) Before installing the regulator hook it to a battery and operate it to the point that the moving arm is just a slight bit, maybe 5 degrees above horizontal.
3) Place the regulator inside the body, and make SURE you hook up the wiring to it now.
4) Install the regulator, bolt it up just loosely. Make sure the roller on the arm is free and greased.
5) Make sure the rollers on the window spin freely and are greased. Remove the short channel that is attached to the window assembly just below the bottom of the visible part of the glass (when installed). It's 2 little Phillips screws.
6) Bolt up the double channel assembly (as long as you've cleaned the channels real well and filled them full of white lithium grease). Leave it loose enough to be able to wiggle it a bit.
7) Wiggle the window into place, engaging the rollers into the channel as you lower it in to the body.
8) Lower the window to the point that it would be in the approximate position that the power arm would be holding it at. You should be able to slide the short window channel on to the roller of the arm.
9) Install one of the Phillips screws. Move the window to the right height so the hole for the other Phillips lines up and install it.
10) Install the banana shaped short rear upper channel.
11) Adjust as necessary!
mr409 said
Dec 16, 2012
As a former high school teacher myself, Carl you are absolutely correct about teachers salarys-in fact closer to 80+ depending on education and experience in Manitoba and they deserve every last penny of it! I would recommend Manitoba Hydro though as a second choice!
65wagon said
Dec 17, 2012
nice job Carl one baby step after another
4SPEED427 said
Dec 21, 2012
Two down, one to go. (power lock switch)
Man, that's nerve wracking cutting up really nice door panels to mount switches where there were cranks.
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 11:50:18 PM
Not too much to show so far. Today I drilled the one hole that needs drilled to do this, and punched out the two factory plugs that are all set up for the conversion.
On the left is the one that gets drilled. It's behind the kick panels. The factory is nice enough to put a dimple where it's supposed to go. Unfortunately, that dimple is for the assembly line and it's reversed if you are doing a conversion with the front fender on (unlike on the line) but that's easy enough to cure. I just took a die grinder and ground down the tiny little bump that is there, then used the 2" hole saw. It's the plug in the left of the pic.
Middle in the pic is the plug that you punch out of the pillar, between the door hinges. It's held in with a couple of spot welds, and the angle is nasty so it's a toughy. I used a die grinder, ground a small hole in it, then used a long shaft from an old pry bar and hammered the plug in. The hole needs to be ground so the corner of the pry bar has something to grab on to.
Right in the pic is the oval plug in the door. Same deal as the pillar plug. Ugly angle, grind a hole, insert pry bar and hammer it in.
This is how the hole looks that needs to be drilled behind each kick panel, passenger side shown. I fished all the wires through for windows, vents and locks too. I don't even have the lock conversion totally figured out yet (actuator mounting) but if you ever do a conversion, believe me, it's easier to fish the wires through now rather than later. What I did was have the wires not yet installed in the car, then fished them through the boots, then wiggled/twisted/pulled the boots with wires already in them through those 3 holes. Not simple but the easier of the two, at least so I've found it in the past.
I didn't start removing the manual regulators yet but I don't think the last guy in there was too mechanically inclined. Check the angle of the bolt. Can you say crossthreaded?
you have been busy, it must be tough working inside, and yes i am envious, you are progressing nicely
I treated myself tonight. I think I worked late in there every night this week plus almost all day today, so I came in shortly after 9 tonight for a break.
It was fun today, I had our son with me in there most of the day. He is just finishing up his first semester at university and wanted to spend the day working with me. Can't beat days like that!
ah it just makes ya tougher working outside in the cold, hack hack, caugh ,sniffle. I love working with my little guy he's always ready for fun with dad, whats your boy taking if you dont mind me asking.
as long as he enjoys himself. my wife loves teaching, but it doesnt pay the bills, im two years away but run heavy equipment, 9500 a month to 2600 big difference. i would love to teach but it will have wait.
I know he did tell me that after 10 years they're at around $75,000 year. A guy can live on that, or less!
Hopefully start ripping out the glass, regulators and vent frames tomorrow. I have to slip away for a friend's dad's funeral though.
I'm looking forward to having a car with power vent windows again. It's always fun to see people giggle when you operate them! Most people have never seen such a thing.
Lots of scrounging. It's a toss up whether I love doing these conversions more, or scrounging for this stuff in yards more!
Removed the vent frame/glass assembly first. That comes out real easy. 1 little screw at the top at the back corner of the vent, 1 bolt and 2 nuts holding the framework in, 3 bolts holding the vent gearbox to the door and 1 bolt holding the gearbox to the vent assembly. The 2 nuts with the big washers have a long stud to the vent frame. I think it could be removed as a unit but I removed the studs first because they stick out quite a bit and make it tougher to pull it up through the door opening.
I see my replacement tinted vent assembly, although listed as a correct interchange, is missing a small bracket at the lower rear of the glass where one phillips screw holds the frame to the door. I am not sure if I will attempt to alter the tint frame to accept that bracket.
At the top rear of the door you see a rectangular opening angled about 45 degrees. There is a window stop there that needs removed for the window to come out. The stop just uses one bolt.
To remove the window regulator, first remove the 2 bolts circled in yellow.
To install the power window, I first put the power regulator in the position as shown, with the scissor almost horizontal. Make sure the short arm of the pivoting arm is to the top, roller facing away, same as the roller on the long regulator solid arm.
Then I set the regulator in the bottom of the door. Now is where I needed about 4 arms! I lowered the window in and wiggled the top two rollers into the channel that is attached to the window. The window needs to be held in place while the regulator is lifted from the bottom of the door and the 4 bolts attached. Note that the power window regulator uses only one of the manual regulator holes. It uses the 4 circled in red.
I also changed to tinted glass and the tint had no hardware. There was no way I could get the 3 big washers unstuck from the bottom of the clear glass and those have to be used. Finally, although I knew it was risky, I applied the heat gun for a very short time to each washer and they came off wonderfully! I am sure prolonged heat on the glass would pop it though, so I was very careful to be brief.
This is as far as I got.
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Saturday 8th of December 2012 08:40:11 PM
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Saturday 8th of December 2012 10:44:56 PM
I thought I was done for the night but when the car bug bites, it can be a powerful bite! Back I went to do some more.
I went to put the vent glass in and didn't like that the one little bracket for the phillips screw was not on the tint vent assembly. I had never dismantled a vent assembly, but the old logic "a human built it, so I can take it apart" took over. These things are simple, now that I know. 3 screws basically and it's apart. I switched the tinted glass over to the GP vent frame and installed it.
Later, as I was cleaning up, I decided to put the clear glass in the tint frame just to put them into storage. Nope. Can't do it without modifying the one little hole where the flat shaft on the bottom of the glass pokes through a bracket. You likely can't see it in the picture, but by my thumb is a small hole. On the clear frame, the round hole has 2 notches, 180 degrees apart on the circle. The flat shaft on the clear glass has a tab on each side that fits through there when you are assembling it. The flat shaft on the tint glass has a tab on one side that fits through there when you are assembling it. Thus, the tint glass (one tab) will fit either circle, but the clear glass (two tabs) will only fit the circle with 2 notches...Can you see the difference???
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 11:48:27 PM
Nice work Carl. These kinds of conversions take a lot of time and patience but they are well worth the end result.
That is amazing Carl! I'll be looking back at this for the removal of the power windows in my parts car. Thanks.
I installed it all in these steps on the left side and it worked a lot better:
1) Put the double window track into the body but just leave it loose, and set it farthest away from you in the body, leaning up against the inside of the quarter panel.
2) Before installing the regulator hook it to a battery and operate it to the point that the moving arm is just a slight bit, maybe 5 degrees above horizontal.
3) Place the regulator inside the body, and make SURE you hook up the wiring to it now.
4) Install the regulator, bolt it up just loosely. Make sure the roller on the arm is free and greased.
5) Make sure the rollers on the window spin freely and are greased. Remove the short channel that is attached to the window assembly just below the bottom of the visible part of the glass (when installed). It's 2 little Phillips screws.
6) Bolt up the double channel assembly (as long as you've cleaned the channels real well and filled them full of white lithium grease). Leave it loose enough to be able to wiggle it a bit.
7) Wiggle the window into place, engaging the rollers into the channel as you lower it in to the body.
8) Lower the window to the point that it would be in the approximate position that the power arm would be holding it at. You should be able to slide the short window channel on to the roller of the arm.
9) Install one of the Phillips screws. Move the window to the right height so the hole for the other Phillips lines up and install it.
10) Install the banana shaped short rear upper channel.
11) Adjust as necessary!
nice job Carl one baby step after another
Man, that's nerve wracking cutting up really nice door panels to mount switches where there were cranks.
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Wednesday 24th of April 2013 11:50:18 PM
2 cuts down, one to go.
Then off to the passenger side and the quarters. This one was first, it's the toughie.
Nice job Carl!