Need good info for finding a frame for a 1967 Parisienne
broden1977 said
Feb 5, 2015
67curves,
Where is the parisienne that is on its roof and the one on its wheels? Lower mainland? This may be a dumb question, but why is the car on its roof? Its great for checking the frame but doesn't that total the top?
broden1977 said
Feb 5, 2015
Cliff,
Thanks for the frame dimensions, this will help me confirm my frame and any others I look at.
66 Grande guy said
Feb 6, 2015
A couple of things that may or may not help you that are based on 1966 and 1967 Candian Pontiac New Product information books:
For 1966 the only cars that were supposed to be equipped with the 4 link rear control arms were
327,396 and 427 cars in all body styles as well as all station wagons.
If you need a four link make sure the frame you are getting was from one of these cars.
I also found a quote from the 1967 New Product Information Book that states:
"The perimeter type frame is continued for 1967. Modifications to the frame-necessitated by revisions to attaching components-are minor, but of a nature that prohibits the 1967 frame from being used as a service substitute for past models.
I'd have scanned this but my scanner is not functioning.
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Friday 6th of February 2015 01:05:26 AM
67curves said
Feb 6, 2015
broden1977 wrote:
67curves,
Where is the parisienne that is on its roof and the one on its wheels? Lower mainland? This may be a dumb question, but why is the car on its roof? Its great for checking the frame but doesn't that total the top?
Cars are in Alberta. One is behind the other. 67 is a parts car. Better to have the car on its roof than frame sitting in the dirt. Not too many need a roof.
broden1977 said
Feb 9, 2015
So I had a chance to check out 2 hardtops and 2 convertibles (all 1968 impalas). No good frames for me to buy but some new info to share and get info from you guys. It looks like the 67-68 convertible frames have four transmission cross member mount locations (one set for one position and the other set to move the crossmember further back) and the hardtop frames have only one set of mounts. Can anyone confirm this on their rides/projects? Other than that the frames in the middle section are 7/8" wider than a hardtop frame (4 7/8" convertible and 4" hardtop). Both types of frames were fully boxed in the middle section and c channel for the rear section behind the rear wheel arches and the connecting piece between the left/right rails. So if I can confirm that some of you guys have 4 tranny crossmember location mounts on your convertible 67-68s then my frame has been replaced at one point with a convertible frame as I have a hardtop with a frame that has 4 tranny crossmember mounts.
Those mounts are actually for two different transmissions. By coincidence, it would appear that both convertibles you looked at were Turbo 400 cars. The front mounts come on ALL frames, they are used for 3 or 4 speed manual transmission, as well as powerglide. The rear mounts are welded on when the car was assembled at the factory with a Turbo 400 transmission. Any time you see those (assuming someone hasn't added them later) you can assume that the car was built with a Turbo 400 when it was new.
4SPEED427 said
Feb 9, 2015
broden1977 wrote:
as I have a hardtop with a frame that has 4 tranny crossmember mounts.
Assuming those were put on at the factory, that tells us your car would have been built with either a 327, 396 or 427. The Turbo 400 was not available with a 283 or 6 cylinder in 1967.
broden1977 said
Feb 9, 2015
Ahh that makes sense because since i posted that I have been looking and both hardtops and convertibles had those extra mounts.
4SPEED427 said
Feb 10, 2015
Yup, it's a great way to spot a car that is alleged to be a factory 4 speed for example. If it has the second set of mounts on it, a red flag goes up because it should only have one set (the front ones of course!)
However, if someone converts from a powerglide to a 4 speed, it all uses the same mounts.
I remember converting my 66 Grande Parisienne from a 283 'Glide to a 427 TH400 way back when (about 1978). It was as simple as welding on another set of tabs in the right spot on the frame for the 400 mount and using the correct length driveshaft with the TH 400 yoke.
I guess it must have been cheaper just to build all frames with front mounts and add rear TH400 mounts as needed. It always seemed like a waste to me when I looked under a TH400 car and saw the front set of tabs that were never used.
seventy2plus2 said
Feb 10, 2015
broden1977 wrote:
Other than that the frames in the middle section are 7/8" wider than a hardtop frame (4 7/8" convertible and 4" hardtop).
Yes, the convertible frames are wider along the bottom of the middle section that runs along the outside perimeter of the car. I've heard of people putting a convertible frame under a hardtop, but that complicates the crossmember as the convertible crossmembers are narrower to accommodate for this. Convertible crossmembers are sometimes hard to find.
koolconvertible said
Feb 10, 2015
I would not use a convertible frame. They are different and may cause issues. I have a 67 frame out the back which belongs to a mate. My vert frame is different and 65. He and his old man were right into pontiacs and chevs of that era. He knows a bit about them. he is going to use the 67 frame under his 65 2 door. Basically I'd steer clear of using a convertible chassis. It is wider on the sides and has more mount points. this is for body stiffening as there is no roof.
interestingly this thread has answered an earlier question of mine regarding crossmember for turbo 400 gearbox. Extra Tabs welded in to new position. Do you use the same crossmember? Looks like it. Wonder what the measurements are for the new position?
4SPEED427 said
Feb 10, 2015
Broden1977 hopefully can put a tape on those mounts for you and give you the dimensions.
It's been about 35 years since I did that swap but I'm pretty sure the same crossmember works.
67Poncho said
Feb 10, 2015
koolconvertible wrote:
interestingly this thread has answered an earlier question of mine regarding crossmember for turbo 400 gearbox. Extra Tabs welded in to new position. Do you use the same crossmember? Looks like it. Wonder what the measurements are for the new position?
This would be the frame you will need as it already a THM400 equipted.. It looks like a beauty! Plus it has the hangers for duals! Also seems to have the 3/8" fuel line.. BB?
You can see the extra set of perches welded on... And yes, it is the same cross member... As for measurements, just mock up the perches with the powertrain installed...
I have a '70 4dr sedan Chief frame in my '67 2+2 coupe... That one has a THM700, the same mounting as the THM400 perches that I just added when I installed the powertrain...
The only modification that I had to do was to swap the rear section of the '67 frame onto the '70 frame... Why? I don't remember now as I done that in '97... So, for sure, you can use a '69-'70 frame in your '67 with that minor mod..
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 09:53:45 AM
koolconvertible said
Feb 10, 2015
Thanks 67 poncho! The only cars we got in australia were powerglide frames so turbo 400 crossmembers were always a bit of a mystery!
Hi, there are a couple places you can find what you're looking for but not here in Canada. One guy i have personally dealt with is Western Sheet Metal in Oregan. His shipping rates are usually very good.His Name is Brian Carlson. Just tell him Bud from Brampton sent you. He'll take good care of you. Also there is a place out near Washington called All American you could try. I believe the guys name is Forest. Good Luck on your hunt.
broden1977 said
Jun 4, 2016
Update...i have the complete rolling chassis completed and we lowered the 1967 parisienne body down onto the rolling 1968 caprice chassis. All 8 of the front body mounts will work but tge last rear bidy mounts are about one inch further out to the sides of the car...total of two inches between the holes. So I think the easiest solution is to weld up the holes in the frame and redrill two holes under the body mounts. We still have the entire body to repair sheet metal but we have progressed quite a bit.
67curves,
Where is the parisienne that is on its roof and the one on its wheels? Lower mainland? This may be a dumb question, but why is the car on its roof? Its great for checking the frame but doesn't that total the top?
Cliff,
Thanks for the frame dimensions, this will help me confirm my frame and any others I look at.
A couple of things that may or may not help you that are based on 1966 and 1967 Candian Pontiac New Product information books:
For 1966 the only cars that were supposed to be equipped with the 4 link rear control arms were
327,396 and 427 cars in all body styles as well as all station wagons.
If you need a four link make sure the frame you are getting was from one of these cars.
I also found a quote from the 1967 New Product Information Book that states:
"The perimeter type frame is continued for 1967. Modifications to the frame-necessitated by revisions to attaching components-are minor, but of a nature that prohibits the 1967 frame from being used as a service substitute for past models.
I'd have scanned this but my scanner is not functioning.
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Friday 6th of February 2015 01:05:26 AM
Cars are in Alberta. One is behind the other. 67 is a parts car. Better to have the car on its roof than frame sitting in the dirt. Not too many need a roof.
So I had a chance to check out 2 hardtops and 2 convertibles (all 1968 impalas). No good frames for me to buy but some new info to share and get info from you guys. It looks like the 67-68 convertible frames have four transmission cross member mount locations (one set for one position and the other set to move the crossmember further back) and the hardtop frames have only one set of mounts. Can anyone confirm this on their rides/projects? Other than that the frames in the middle section are 7/8" wider than a hardtop frame (4 7/8" convertible and 4" hardtop). Both types of frames were fully boxed in the middle section and c channel for the rear section behind the rear wheel arches and the connecting piece between the left/right rails. So if I can confirm that some of you guys have 4 tranny crossmember location mounts on your convertible 67-68s then my frame has been replaced at one point with a convertible frame as I have a hardtop with a frame that has 4 tranny crossmember mounts.
Assuming those were put on at the factory, that tells us your car would have been built with either a 327, 396 or 427. The Turbo 400 was not available with a 283 or 6 cylinder in 1967.
Ahh that makes sense because since i posted that I have been looking and both hardtops and convertibles had those extra mounts.
However, if someone converts from a powerglide to a 4 speed, it all uses the same mounts.
I remember converting my 66 Grande Parisienne from a 283 'Glide to a 427 TH400 way back when (about 1978). It was as simple as welding on another set of tabs in the right spot on the frame for the 400 mount and using the correct length driveshaft with the TH 400 yoke.
I guess it must have been cheaper just to build all frames with front mounts and add rear TH400 mounts as needed. It always seemed like a waste to me when I looked under a TH400 car and saw the front set of tabs that were never used.
Yes, the convertible frames are wider along the bottom of the middle section that runs along the outside perimeter of the car. I've heard of people putting a convertible frame under a hardtop, but that complicates the crossmember as the convertible crossmembers are narrower to accommodate for this. Convertible crossmembers are sometimes hard to find.
I would not use a convertible frame. They are different and may cause issues. I have a 67 frame out the back which belongs to a mate. My vert frame is different and 65. He and his old man were right into pontiacs and chevs of that era. He knows a bit about them. he is going to use the 67 frame under his 65 2 door. Basically I'd steer clear of using a convertible chassis. It is wider on the sides and has more mount points. this is for body stiffening as there is no roof.
interestingly this thread has answered an earlier question of mine regarding crossmember for turbo 400 gearbox. Extra Tabs welded in to new position. Do you use the same crossmember? Looks like it. Wonder what the measurements are for the new position?
It's been about 35 years since I did that swap but I'm pretty sure the same crossmember works.
This would be the frame you will need as it already a THM400 equipted.. It looks like a beauty! Plus it has the hangers for duals!
Also seems to have the 3/8" fuel line.. BB?
You can see the extra set of perches welded on... And yes, it is the same cross member... As for measurements, just mock up the perches with the powertrain installed...
I have a '70 4dr sedan Chief frame in my '67 2+2 coupe... That one has a THM700, the same mounting as the THM400 perches that I just added when I installed the powertrain...
The only modification that I had to do was to swap the rear section of the '67 frame onto the '70 frame... Why? I don't remember now as I done that in '97... So, for sure, you can use a '69-'70 frame in your '67 with that minor mod..
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 09:53:45 AM
Thanks 67 poncho! The only cars we got in australia were powerglide frames so turbo 400 crossmembers were always a bit of a mystery!
Hi, there are a couple places you can find what you're looking for but not here in Canada. One guy i have personally dealt with is Western Sheet Metal in Oregan. His shipping rates are usually very good.His Name is Brian Carlson. Just tell him Bud from Brampton sent you. He'll take good care of you. Also there is a place out near Washington called All American you could try. I believe the guys name is Forest. Good Luck on your hunt.