Hi guys, its been awhile since I've been on. George Zapora report I got states 48 right hand drive for export sales for 576467......(1965 Parisienne 2 door convertible V8) if that's any help for the figures.
4SPEED427 said
Sep 5, 2013
Flatblack wrote:
Hey guys trying to decode my vin on a 1966 Pontiac Grande Parisienne here is my vin# 67665701****
I'm sorry nobody has replied to you. Welcome here.
You can get more info off your cowl (firewall) tag than the VIN tag on your car as far as what it was built with. Your vin that you posted just basically tells us it's a 1966 Grande Parisienne 2 door hardtop.
Macker said
Nov 14, 2015
Does anyone know the production numbers for the 1970 Pontiac 2+2 convertible with the 400 LF6 ? it must be very low as I have never seen one like mine on the road. i just finished a swap with a period correct intake and four barrel Rochester. The car runs much better with this set up.
67Poncho said
Nov 15, 2015
Macker wrote:
Does anyone know the production numbers for the 1970 Pontiac 2+2 convertible with the 400 LF6 ? it must be very low as I have never seen one like mine on the road. i just finished a swap with a period correct intake and four barrel Rochester. The car runs much better with this set up.
Since it isn't in the list, most likely it hasn't been confirmed... Send away for your Vintage report and get them to inform us all! (lol) There were 274 2+2 Rags produced as you may already know.... (I have a basket case here) Low is correct... More history and pics?
Macker said
Nov 15, 2015
I have the package from GM but it does not specify production for this engine. Car was only driven a couple of partial winters during it's life and sat in a garage from 1993 to 2013 when the restoration was completed. The interior and top were redone but the drivetrain is original and largely untouched. The frame is solid but some repair was needed on the doors and rear quarter panels. Chrome and stainless trim pieces were also refinished during the restoration.
73SC said
Nov 15, 2015
Macker wrote:
I have the package from GM but it does not specify production for this engine. Car was only driven a couple of partial winters during it's life and sat in a garage from 1993 to 2013 when the restoration was completed. The interior and top were redone but the drivetrain is original and largely untouched. The frame is solid but some repair was needed on the doors and rear quarter panels. Chrome and stainless trim pieces were also refinished during the restoration.
I wrote the Feature car article in February 2010 about a 2+2 Hardtop LF6 400 car CLICK HERE. I have the GM paperwork from George as well. On it it was stated "less than 300" with LF6. That makes sense since the 350 4 bbl was a more popular option since it had 35 more Horsepower given the 400 was only offered as a 2bbl with single exhausts it was designed to produce torque which it did at 400 ft. lbs. The Feature Car also had a 4bbl added with a custom built mandrel bent dual exhaust and it was a beast to drive.
Macker I am pretty sure your car has a few pieces supplied by me, 400V emblems and an air cleaner emblem PONTIAC 400. I was in contact with the restorer when he was assembling pieces for your car, in fact I know it was your car because he told me it was a convertible and the colour and I see it beautifully on display in your avatar!
Mondo Poncho said
Nov 15, 2015
What an interesting thread! I hope it is correct of me to comment by hitting "Reply" on the last post.
It occurred to me long ago that the GM Canada docs out there could be gathered up and certain bits of info could be compiled in a way that if analyzed by the right mathematical mind (with insight into certain production practices also), might lead to solid conclusions as to actual production numbers of certain option combo's- i.e.: 427 4 speed cars, or in the example on this thread of LS5 wagons, with 15 being produced. Great work guys!
In the same way as this simple math problem can be solved, maybe the more complex task of determining exact numbers of certain drivetrain and model combinations could be determined....
John has 30 marbles, 18 of which are red and 12 of which are blue. Jane has 20 marbles, all of them either red or blue. If the ratio of the red marbles to the blue marbles is the same for both John and Jane, then John has how many more blue marbles than Jane?
Just saying that would be a cool project for somebody smart- if there were enough clues to work with.
One correction might be in order I think on these posted production charts though. Elroy's post on page 5 of this thread states that the car he had and that I now own is one of "less than 13" produced. Elroy told me that George Zappora explained to him that he worded it this way because for the 1967 model year there were 13 L36 M20 2+2 models in coupe and convertible, but he did not know how many of those 13 cars were convertibles and how many were coupes. Knowing there must be a combination of both coupes and convertibles, he stated that there were less than 13 convertibles because 13 is the total number of both. I haven't yet checked in with George, but I will be ordering my own GM documents just to have my name on them. When I do, I will try to call George and get clarification once and for all. but if Elroy is right- and I believe he is- and if it is safe to assume that there were fewer convertibles than coupes built with the 427 4 speed, then there were very few cars like mine built. Maybe 25% is a close guess as to the number of convertibles compared to the total of 13. That might suggest somewhere around 3 or 4 427 4 speed 2+2 convertibles built for the 1967 model year? When I get clarification, I will post it. As the list reads now, it would seem there were 13 convertibles built with 427 4 speed. I think that may be inaccurate. Supporting this thinking- I saw a 1968 2+2 model 427 4 speed coupe GM Canada document that stated there were 29 2+2 model L36 coupes made for 1968 model year. If 25% of those were 4 speeds, that would mean there might be 7 or 8 L36 4 speed coupes made in the 2+2 model. Assuming 1967 and 1968 model years were produced in similar numbers (speaking of 2+2 models here), there could be 7-10 427 4 speed coupes made for the 1967 Model year and 3-6 convertibles- this using a guesstimate of 25% of 427 cars having 4 speed transmissions, and 25% of 427 4 speed cars being convertible. The numbers kind of fit, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the percentages of 4 speed cars to automatics in the 427 cars was less than 25%, or that the percentage of convertibles compared to hard tops in the 427 4 speed cars was also less than 25%. Any way you look at it, these cars are rare. I will check with George Zappora on the "less than 13" comment re my car and get back to all of you on here. Just my $.02!
-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Sunday 15th of November 2015 07:05:33 PM
-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Sunday 15th of November 2015 07:07:24 PM
Elroy said
Nov 23, 2015
There is a Stat shown for 67's of 8 only 427 2+2 coupes. Wondering if anyone knows where this came from ? Usually these come off a GM Doc comment. If this is true for a M20 L36 combo, It would support 5 convertibles, if that's all 427's it would leave more questions. ??
Macker said
Nov 28, 2015
Ray, for sure you are the guy that helped out with the emblem and 400 badge so thanks for that. I am happy to finally have the car finished last year. Clint was a big help too with some of the missing parts and helping me diagnose and fix a few of the problems.
Laurent63 said
May 15, 2021
will this list still be updated ? I have something to enter here.
1963 7611 - laurentian 8 cyl 2 door sedan (1063 produced)
Source: Vintage Vehicle Service
-- Edited by Laurent63 on Saturday 15th of May 2021 09:16:26 AM
4SPEED427 said
May 15, 2021
Thank you for posting that, I just added that to the list. That is a RARE car!
I'm sorry nobody has replied to you. Welcome here.
You can get more info off your cowl (firewall) tag than the VIN tag on your car as far as what it was built with. Your vin that you posted just basically tells us it's a 1966 Grande Parisienne 2 door hardtop.
Does anyone know the production numbers for the 1970 Pontiac 2+2 convertible with the 400 LF6 ? it must be very low as I have never seen one like mine on the road. i just finished a swap with a period correct intake and four barrel Rochester. The car runs much better with this set up.
Since it isn't in the list, most likely it hasn't been confirmed... Send away for your Vintage report and get them to inform us all! (lol) There were 274 2+2 Rags produced as you may already know.... (I have a basket case here) Low is correct... More history and pics?
I have the package from GM but it does not specify production for this engine. Car was only driven a couple of partial winters during it's life and sat in a garage from 1993 to 2013 when the restoration was completed. The interior and top were redone but the drivetrain is original and largely untouched. The frame is solid but some repair was needed on the doors and rear quarter panels. Chrome and stainless trim pieces were also refinished during the restoration.
I wrote the Feature car article in February 2010 about a 2+2 Hardtop LF6 400 car CLICK HERE. I have the GM paperwork from George as well. On it it was stated "less than 300" with LF6. That makes sense since the 350 4 bbl was a more popular option since it had 35 more Horsepower given the 400 was only offered as a 2bbl with single exhausts it was designed to produce torque which it did at 400 ft. lbs. The Feature Car also had a 4bbl added with a custom built mandrel bent dual exhaust and it was a beast to drive.
Macker I am pretty sure your car has a few pieces supplied by me, 400V emblems and an air cleaner emblem PONTIAC 400. I was in contact with the restorer when he was assembling pieces for your car, in fact I know it was your car because he told me it was a convertible and the colour and I see it beautifully on display in your avatar!
What an interesting thread! I hope it is correct of me to comment by hitting "Reply" on the last post.
It occurred to me long ago that the GM Canada docs out there could be gathered up and certain bits of info could be compiled in a way that if analyzed by the right mathematical mind (with insight into certain production practices also), might lead to solid conclusions as to actual production numbers of certain option combo's- i.e.: 427 4 speed cars, or in the example on this thread of LS5 wagons, with 15 being produced. Great work guys!
In the same way as this simple math problem can be solved, maybe the more complex task of determining exact numbers of certain drivetrain and model combinations could be determined....
John has 30 marbles, 18 of which are red and 12 of which are blue. Jane has 20 marbles, all of them either red or blue. If the ratio of the red marbles to the blue marbles is the same for both John and Jane, then John has how many more blue marbles than Jane?
Just saying that would be a cool project for somebody smart- if there were enough clues to work with.
One correction might be in order I think on these posted production charts though. Elroy's post on page 5 of this thread states that the car he had and that I now own is one of "less than 13" produced. Elroy told me that George Zappora explained to him that he worded it this way because for the 1967 model year there were 13 L36 M20 2+2 models in coupe and convertible, but he did not know how many of those 13 cars were convertibles and how many were coupes. Knowing there must be a combination of both coupes and convertibles, he stated that there were less than 13 convertibles because 13 is the total number of both. I haven't yet checked in with George, but I will be ordering my own GM documents just to have my name on them. When I do, I will try to call George and get clarification once and for all. but if Elroy is right- and I believe he is- and if it is safe to assume that there were fewer convertibles than coupes built with the 427 4 speed, then there were very few cars like mine built. Maybe 25% is a close guess as to the number of convertibles compared to the total of 13. That might suggest somewhere around 3 or 4 427 4 speed 2+2 convertibles built for the 1967 model year? When I get clarification, I will post it. As the list reads now, it would seem there were 13 convertibles built with 427 4 speed. I think that may be inaccurate. Supporting this thinking- I saw a 1968 2+2 model 427 4 speed coupe GM Canada document that stated there were 29 2+2 model L36 coupes made for 1968 model year. If 25% of those were 4 speeds, that would mean there might be 7 or 8 L36 4 speed coupes made in the 2+2 model. Assuming 1967 and 1968 model years were produced in similar numbers (speaking of 2+2 models here), there could be 7-10 427 4 speed coupes made for the 1967 Model year and 3-6 convertibles- this using a guesstimate of 25% of 427 cars having 4 speed transmissions, and 25% of 427 4 speed cars being convertible. The numbers kind of fit, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if the percentages of 4 speed cars to automatics in the 427 cars was less than 25%, or that the percentage of convertibles compared to hard tops in the 427 4 speed cars was also less than 25%. Any way you look at it, these cars are rare. I will check with George Zappora on the "less than 13" comment re my car and get back to all of you on here. Just my $.02!
-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Sunday 15th of November 2015 07:05:33 PM
-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Sunday 15th of November 2015 07:07:24 PM
Ray, for sure you are the guy that helped out with the emblem and 400 badge so thanks for that. I am happy to finally have the car finished last year. Clint was a big help too with some of the missing parts and helping me diagnose and fix a few of the problems.
will this list still be updated ?
I have something to enter here.
1963
7611 - laurentian 8 cyl 2 door sedan (1063 produced)
Source: Vintage Vehicle Service
-- Edited by Laurent63 on Saturday 15th of May 2021 09:16:26 AM
Thank you for posting that, I just added that to the list. That is a RARE car!