For a brief history, the car had a frame off and it was cross measured to be right on.All the front end parts were replaced, including a tighter ratio steering box, and then an alignment. I knew that the car dog tracks with the rear slightly to the right and the only solution for this was to install an adjustable control arm on the rear end..... it now tracks straight but after the align, tends to wander off to the left....very irritating.
As for alignment issues, the first was the wheel not returning (centering) after turning a corner.Since a disc conversion was done, widening the track by about 3/8 each side, my thought was not enough castor.So, I increased the steering angle and or castor by lengthening the lower control arm stabilizers which improved the wheel return.Had a second alignment, it still wanders to the left.I then made a few more adjustments to both camber / castor and it seemed to overall improve it.Now, knowing the toe-in is off and to ensure it is ok, followed up with a third alignment. ....still wanders to the left! The print out stats on it show the castor is quite high, which is ok, and everything else is to spec Each alignment was at different places and all said nothing is bent and no issues.I even tried switching wheels around with no change.Anyone have thoughts on what the problem is???
Ghost Post said
Oct 2, 2008
I expect your alignment shop knows what they're doing but are they for sure each and every time doing an alignment with heads mounted on the fronts AND rears to take into account the rear concern you have while setting the front specs?.
Also when you say all front parts were replaced, were control arm bushings for sure replaced too?.
Lastly, and more directed towards your slow return to center steering issue than the wandering left thing, sounds dumb maybe but sticky ball joints can sometimes cause this problem and are hard to isolate.. To check them you'd need to knock off your outer t'rod ends and make sure both sides are moving freely to the full extension in both directions..
Good luck!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post at 12:15, 2008-10-02
1965CS said
Oct 2, 2008
Well, as for the alignment shop knowing what they are doing...who really knows. lol. That's why I tried 3 different places. Anyway, the last place did utilize all four wheels and adjusted the rear to be parallel with the front....the result?...dogtracking again. All upper arm bushings were replaced...lower seemed OK. Not dumb about the tight joints as I too thought this and had others say that too. Checked all rod ends etc and they all seemed fine but changed the lowers for the H of it with new Moog....no diff. I have got it to return fairly well, it's just that gentle pull to the left is sooooo annoying. It is nice rounding a long slight left curve on the highway, though . . .
-- Edited by 1965CS at 12:45, 2008-10-02
Ghost Post said
Oct 2, 2008
The front settings are supposed to be adjusted last to take into account whatever the rears may be at.. Are the tires new or any miles on them?. Sometimes it takes some mileage on used rubber to get everything in sync and worn into where the specs are set after alignment.. Put some miles on it and watch for uneven wear or cupping than rotate and align again addressing more what counteracts the problem and/or whatever wear you may see on the tires..
Cool car!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post at 15:02, 2008-10-02
1965CS said
Oct 2, 2008
The tires are fairly new at about 5000 mi. I half expected the "feel" to change following rotating positions, but it didn't. One other thing that may be a factor is the wheel size @ 15x8 with original 14x6?...... If I can just get it to drive straight and handle decent, I probably won't worry about tires wearing. Considering the amount of usage each year, they'll last several years...
427carl said
Oct 2, 2008
As I write this, I am setting here, waiting for a call from alignment shop!!! I added p.s. to my car, and added new strut rod bushings.. I have 15x7 wheels on it now, with P235/70r-15 tires. With standard steering, the car was great on the road, up to, and over 100mph. After I installed p.s. it was a delight to drive around town, but was a bit "loose feeling" on the highway.. I took it down, to check out 74,000 original mile front end, and it needed a centre link and inner tie rod end.. I took it back today, and told John to set it, so it "plants the front tires", to the point of tire wear start. John is the type of front man, who can do a "custom setting" He has been working in the Clinton shop,since I hired him in 1985... Experience is a great teacher...
427carl said
Oct 2, 2008
Is it a big block?
Canadian Poncho said
Oct 2, 2008
Some body shops have laser frame racks. They may be able (for a fee) to tell you if the frame is out of spec.
4SPEED427 said
Oct 2, 2008
Upper control arm bushings?
1965CS said
Oct 2, 2008
Carl Stevenson wrote:
Upper control arm bushings?
both sides replaced, bolts and all.
455gto said
Oct 3, 2008
1965CS wrote:
Oddly, the wandering seems more noticeable at lower speeds, 39-40mph. I have had it to 110+mph w no shakes and seems to improve with speed.
Having it change at different speeds would mean tires, rims. Those are the only factors that change. Pull could be caused by a bad rotor or brakes that drag on one side. Having a broken belt or a rim problem will cause a shake in the car at lower speed. Been there done that Took a long time to figure that out.
427carl said
Oct 3, 2008
I got the Ratochief back, this morning.. The steering wheel is straight, and it steers wonderfull. The centre link was really shot, and the camber or caster, was way off, as I had changed the strut rod bushings. The car pulled left, when you applied brakes as left side rod bushings were gone. John spent a lot of time fussing with it... Car is worth a lot, more money now! lol
67rag396 said
Oct 3, 2008
I notice it is now also the "World's Fastest". That should double the value LOL.
Rick
1965CS said
Oct 3, 2008
I did rotate tire positions front to rear with same results... I will try L to R on the front next.
427carl said
Oct 3, 2008
Yes, the steering and fastest are really bring up the price.. I should be fair, and extend, the content, of the world's fastest.. It is the "worlds fastest" 2 door "white" Strato Chief in Clinton Ont. I am just washing it, in between rain showers. Hoping to go to CINDERELLA Pumpkin fest in Port Elgin tomorrow.. They are expecting 1000 cars per day.. I will bet you my pink slip, I will be the only 2 door 66 Strato Chief there!.
I did rotate tire positions front to rear with same results... I will try L to R on the front next.
Do try the side to side. "pulling tire"(consisity pull) can make the car pull left or right.. My car has original upper and lower control arm bushings,and they are ok, but, the strut rod bushings were totally wore out.. Did you check yours? If you jack up the car, place the safety stands. and look at them. you can see, if they are moving.. A pulling tire(s) normally, doesn't make a car "wander" Carl1 was correct asking about suspension. My Jimmy wandered, and it had ball joints out.. Carl 1,2,3 are watching.. let us know..
-- Edited by 427carl at 18:10, 2008-10-03
macsleuth said
Oct 3, 2008
Why did the car track to the right? in the first place?
Why were they checking the frame (frame off, so check for straightness).
Having the adjustable rear trailing arm concerns me. Only one trailing arm adjustable or all 3or4??
Because the other ones aren't adjustable, and are fighting to be in their original position, maybe under certain driving conditions, it moves and causes your pull???
I know I'm reaching, but could happen!
Do the alignment guys know about the adjusted rear?
Maybe they need to counter that by adjusting something else?
Good luck
1965CS said
Oct 4, 2008
So, now I have tried switching L and R front wheels with the same result... it still favors the left. I have tried altering the spacers for the camber on both sides... increasing one side -decrease the other, and visa versa. The result, same thing! There is no drag on either wheel and rotors, calipers seem fine and all the bushings seem to be OK with no play anywhere. While cruising and I tug the wheel gently to the right, the car goes right slightly and slowly back to center and eventually slightly left. If I tug the wheel gently to the left, the car goes left and continues... does not "spring" back to center. Since this problem started after replacing all the steering parts, it has taken me back to the steering box and now thinking it may not be on center. I don't know if this is possible tho, since the center mark on the shaft was correct and half way, when attaching the column. The dilemma continues.
Canadian Poncho said
Oct 4, 2008
Could there be a problem in the steering box?
1965CS said
Oct 4, 2008
69Laurentian wrote:
Could there be a problem in the steering box?
Well, as I think back 2 yrs, like I can remember much anymore, this all started after it was replaced.... wish I still had the original to try. I just don't know if it is possible that the box was built off center.
4SPEED427 said
Oct 4, 2008
I know on one car that I adjusted the slack out of the box and it did not center properly after that. I had tightened the adjuster a bit too much with that result. Worth a try? Do you know if it has ever had the adjuster screw turned to remove some of the play?
455gto said
Oct 4, 2008
1965CS wrote:
Well, as I think back 2 yrs, like I can remember much anymore, this all started after it was replaced.... wish I still had the original to try. I just don't know if it is possible that the box was built off center.
I would say if your problems started after replacing your box....then I would say that's the problem or it's that black cat
macsleuth said
Oct 4, 2008
Of course, the black cat!
Why didn't I think of that?
Good call, topic closed! ; )
1965CS said
Oct 4, 2008
hmmm, maybe it is the cat! Don't let that friendly look on his face fool you.
Thinking the box was too tight, I did back off the set screw about 1/2 turn. That only created free play in the column so I set it back. Also, when I first got the car, I installed a tilt column from a 65 GP. The bearings in it are worn and now thinking this could also be the source....may be "hanging up" somewhere.
-- Edited by 1965CS at 19:22, 2008-10-04
Canadian Poncho said
Oct 4, 2008
You have the twin to our cat. She is named Taz (as in Tazmanian Devil) for a reason. Sweet as pie one minute, shredding your arms the next. She loves me so she hasn't attacked me. Just don't try to carry her in from outside when she isn't ready. The screams sound like a rabid animal. Last summer my brother in law was over for a visit and it was time to bring the cat's (yes cat's-we have 3) in and he said "I'll go get Taz". Before I could run out to stop him I heard the scream. We ran out of band-aids that day...
For a brief history, the car had a frame off and it was cross measured to be right on. All the front end parts were replaced, including a tighter ratio steering box, and then an alignment. I knew that the car dog tracks with the rear slightly to the right and the only solution for this was to install an adjustable control arm on the rear end..... it now tracks straight but after the align, tends to wander off to the left....very irritating.
As for alignment issues, the first was the wheel not returning (centering) after turning a corner. Since a disc conversion was done, widening the track by about 3/8 each side, my thought was not enough castor. So, I increased the steering angle and or castor by lengthening the lower control arm stabilizers which improved the wheel return. Had a second alignment, it still wanders to the left. I then made a few more adjustments to both camber / castor and it seemed to overall improve it. Now, knowing the toe-in is off and to ensure it is ok, followed up with a third alignment. ....still wanders to the left! The print out stats on it show the castor is quite high, which is ok, and everything else is to spec Each alignment was at different places and all said nothing is bent and no issues. I even tried switching wheels around with no change. Anyone have thoughts on what the problem is???Also when you say all front parts were replaced, were control arm bushings for sure replaced too?.
Lastly, and more directed towards your slow return to center steering issue than the wandering left thing, sounds dumb maybe but sticky ball joints can sometimes cause this problem and are hard to isolate..
To check them you'd need to knock off your outer t'rod ends and make sure both sides are moving freely to the full extension in both directions..
Good luck!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post at 12:15, 2008-10-02
-- Edited by 1965CS at 12:45, 2008-10-02
Are the tires new or any miles on them?. Sometimes it takes some mileage on used rubber to get everything in sync and worn into where the specs are set after alignment..
Put some miles on it and watch for uneven wear or cupping than rotate and align again addressing more what counteracts the problem and/or whatever wear you may see on the tires..
Cool car!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post at 15:02, 2008-10-02
both sides replaced, bolts and all.
Yes, the steering and fastest are really bring up the price
.. I should be fair, and extend, the content, of the world's fastest.. It is the "worlds fastest" 2 door "white" Strato Chief in Clinton Ont.
I am just washing it, in between rain showers. Hoping to go to CINDERELLA Pumpkin fest in Port Elgin tomorrow.. They are expecting 1000 cars per day.. I will bet you my pink slip, I will be the only 2 door 66 Strato Chief there!.
-- Edited by 427carl at 18:10, 2008-10-03
So, now I have tried switching L and R front wheels with the same result... it still favors the left. I have tried altering the spacers for the camber on both sides... increasing one side -decrease the other, and visa versa. The result, same thing! There is no drag on either wheel and rotors, calipers seem fine and all the bushings seem to be OK with no play anywhere.
While cruising and I tug the wheel gently to the right, the car goes right slightly and slowly back to center and eventually slightly left. If I tug the wheel gently to the left, the car goes left and continues... does not "spring" back to center. Since this problem started after replacing all the steering parts, it has taken me back to the steering box and now thinking it may not be on center. I don't know if this is possible tho, since the center mark on the shaft was correct and half way, when attaching the column. The dilemma continues.
Well, as I think back 2 yrs, like I can remember much anymore, this all started after it was replaced.... wish I still had the original to try. I just don't know if it is possible that the box was built off center.
Thinking the box was too tight, I did back off the set screw about 1/2 turn. That only created free play in the column so I set it back. Also, when I first got the car, I installed a tilt column from a 65 GP. The bearings in it are worn and now thinking this could also be the source....may be "hanging up" somewhere.
-- Edited by 1965CS at 19:22, 2008-10-04