I'm going to start my front end rebuild on the 67 in a couple of weeks. Phase I will be new rubber bushings and ball joints. I'm lucky, I had a spare set of arms that I was able to blast, paint and add new bushings (oem) and ball joints. So it'll save a little time in doing the job. I'll replace the strut rod bushings as well. This should improve the ride...the upper control arm bushings are pretty much metal to metal right now. Phase 2 will be tie rods and Idler arm and hopefully the drag link is ok.
So as much as I like the ride hight of the car up front, she just sags too far when I have passengers in the car. So it's probably time for springs, but I dont want it to be too high. Am I making a mistake here doing springs? Apparently matching springs can still be got in the Carquest system.
Carl, if you may, what is the Moog number for 67' CF code springs. Part # 3864719.
Cheers, Mark.
59poncho said
May 3, 2010
thats a wicked photo! that car looks badass!!
Elroy said
May 3, 2010
That car is so cool ! Say no to the new stock springs, I've seen way too many guys make that mistake. You might be able to find a new Hotchkiss set of 1 inch drop springs. They are a little heavier duty and will make it ride firmer. I put a set on the Camino and they were perfect.
67rag396 said
May 3, 2010
The front end of my seemed too high after I did some work to it. I currently have 235 70 tires on the rear and 235 60's on the front to bring it down a bit (approx 1 1/4 inches)
73SC said
May 3, 2010
What about a coil over shock in rear to keep the load level?
427carl said
May 3, 2010
73SC wrote:
What about a coil over shock in rear to keep the load level?
On all of my family wagons (we had a lot of them) I always installed coil over shocks... raised the rear 1 inch. and NEVER bottomed out!!
cdnpont said
May 3, 2010
Thanks for the compliments on the stance. It does look about perfect but it's not practical. But I'd hate to spoil it with too high.
I have 255 60 16 T/A's. They rub their outer edge on the inside of the wheel well trim when I make a quick turn. If I'm braking and making a sharp turn, say like into a Hortons, they rub alarmingly! More so with 6 people!
Now the wheelwell trim edge actually could be persuaded back up into a tighter fit on the inside, up underneath where it can't be seen. It is away from the tub almost 1/2" in some spots up top. This is what catches the treadblocks as they come up and rotate forward and make contact with the trim. It's like a open blade and it's actually cutting the treadblocks. Maybe massaging the trim edge up into a 45 degree angle might just do it. I could live with some rubbing, jut not the cutting. Perhaps some new 235/60's front only?
If I could get the same factory spring rate, I'd be fine. Less sag with weight and a similar ride hight.
Rick, I'd say judging by your avtar shot, that stance looks correct, and mine seems just slightly low.
cdnpont said
May 3, 2010
73SC wrote:
What about a coil over shock in rear to keep the load level?
No, no coilovers. I just broke the bank on Bilstiens. Perhaps some Air/Lift 1000 airbags in the springs? I have a set in my van and they're just the ticket.
67rag396 said
May 3, 2010
I'll get you some some height measurements.
cdnpont said
May 3, 2010
Oh, and about the sag...Rick, you said your front end seemed high after doing some work? Is it possible that all new rubber bushings might even raise the car slightly at the curb. I mean, the stock bushings really are just an elastomer spring in that they increase resistance as you wind them up. My uppers are wasted and have no resistance to sag, they just slip on the inner metal bushing. The lowers can't be far behind. Even new strut rod bushings might give a little more resistance.
It's somthing I never really thought much about.
67rag396 said
May 3, 2010
Here's a picture of the 2+2 with 235 70's all around.
Springs ("stock" replacement who knows for sure) with approx 30,000 miles on them.
-- Edited by 67rag396 on Monday 3rd of May 2010 09:23:49 PM
427carl said
May 3, 2010
:
What about a coil over shock in rear to keep the load level?
On all of my family wagons (we had a lot of them) I always installed coil over shocks... raised the rear 1 inch. and NEVER bottomed out!!
69.95 each
Canadian Poncho said
May 4, 2010
You saw my car Mark and how high the front end sits since having the control arms done. You may not need springs.
jonathanD said
May 4, 2010
i would say stock replacment then bounce on the hood till its where you want it only like 2 weeks of bouncing?
cdnpont said
May 4, 2010
69Laurentian wrote:
You saw my car Mark and how high the front end sits since having the control arms done. You may not need springs.
My thinking exactly Todd. New bushings might just bring it up a little bit. We'll see.
66CatfromBuffalo said
May 10, 2010
http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/
You might want to consider some of the modern
polyuerathane sp? bushings for your project
You car looks pretty mean, love that color/colour, rims, new duals
cdnpont said
May 10, 2010
Hey Dave, How's the Cat running? That sludge issue had me worried!
I did think of using poly, but for this car I've chosen oem rubber.
I want a tight ride, but logic tells me you'll get less bind and better suspension articulation with rubber. Maybe a little more shudder over sharp bumps and less precice in the corners, but it won't be as harsh on the flats. It's a cruiser after all. What I'm really after is less body lean. A huge ADDCO aftermarket front bar with poly bushings in combination with the rear bar and Bilstiens should make that possible. Of course rubber won't last as long, but I'll not see that in another 43 years!
Cheers, Mark
66CatfromBuffalo said
May 10, 2010
cdnpont wrote:
Hey Dave, How's the Cat running? That sludge issue had me worried!
I did think of using poly, but for this car I've chosen oem rubber.
I want a tight ride, but logic tells me you'll get less bind and better suspension articulation with rubber. Maybe a little more shudder over sharp bumps and less precice in the corners, but it won't be as harsh on the flats. It's a cruiser after all. What I'm really after is less body lean. A huge ADDCO aftermarket front bar with poly bushings in combination with the rear bar and Bilstiens should make that possible. Of course rubber won't last as long, but I'll not see that in another 43 years!
Cheers, Mark
Very valid points to consider with the different materials
Gummout motor flush, dump n change Runnin Royal Purple, and some slick 50 Going to run her like that for the summer, I hope Im in the hunt for 421/428/455 Waiting for chrome will have her ready for June and some freash pictures want to hit some southern ontario cruise nights Pontiac Dreams All
65wagon said
May 18, 2010
cdnpont wrote:
69Laurentian wrote:
You saw my car Mark and how high the front end sits since having the control arms done. You may not need springs.
My thinking exactly Todd. New bushings might just bring it up a little bit. We'll see.
when i redid my suspension stock f-41 big block i used all urathane from energy made a world of difference in there since 95 no sqeaks or groans .dont use those coilover shocks seems like a good idea but it puts to much stress on the upper shock mount and cracks it two cars with then including the wagon same problem use a air spring. and 275 55 15 fit on 8" trans am wheels just
66CatfromBuffalo said
May 18, 2010
65wagon wrote:
cdnpont wrote:
69Laurentian wrote:
You saw my car Mark and how high the front end sits since having the control arms done. You may not need springs.
My thinking exactly Todd. New bushings might just bring it up a little bit. We'll see.
when i redid my suspension stock f-41 big block i used all urathane from energy made a world of difference in there since 95 no sqeaks or groans .dont use those coilover shocks seems like a good idea but it puts to much stress on the upper shock mount and cracks it two cars with then including the wagon same problem use a air spring. and 275 55 15 fit on 8" trans am wheels just
Bingo, I was wondering if anybody else used urathane bushings, I am that point where i am changing front sway bar bushings and end links was going with energy in black grease able front bushing, or stay stock delco
65wagon said
May 18, 2010
66CatfromBuffalo wrote:
65wagon wrote:
cdnpont wrote:
69Laurentian wrote:
You saw my car Mark and how high the front end sits since having the control arms done. You may not need springs.
My thinking exactly Todd. New bushings might just bring it up a little bit. We'll see.
when i redid my suspension stock f-41 big block i used all urathane from energy made a world of difference in there since 95 no sqeaks or groans .dont use those coilover shocks seems like a good idea but it puts to much stress on the upper shock mount and cracks it two cars with then including the wagon same problem use a air spring. and 275 55 15 fit on 8" trans am wheels just
Bingo, I was wondering if anybody else used urathane bushings, I am that point where i am changing front sway bar bushings and end links was going with energy in black grease able front bushing, or stay stock delco
I replaced one car with nos rubber and either our ozone is alot worse than 40 years ago but they didnt stand up, and redoing big block front springs is not on my to do list even with a spring compressor it took some burly MPs sitting on my fenders to get everything hooked up. dont put F-41 big block in anything it rides like a buckboard. now i know why they got rid of the car at 14thousand
oshawacliff said
May 18, 2010
Mark:
I have a set of eurathane bushings for the strut rods that I did not need to use when I had my last alignment done. I ordered them just in case.
The strut rods already had the eurathane bushings that I put in quite some time ago.
The alignment shop deemed the new eurathane unnecessary, so if you are interested...
These will tighten up your alignment settings so there will be less deflection under braking.
Cliff
427strato said
May 18, 2010
There is absolutely nothing by way of bushings in your suspension that can alter your ride height. You have an upper A arm and a lower control arm in the front separated by your coil spring. None of the bushing affect height, only the spring. In the rear its similiar, a spring mount on your axle and a spring pocket for the upper portion in the frame, separated by a spring. All of the bushings are isolaters and cushion the movement of your control arms; nothing to do with height. As for F41 suspensions riding rough, pure nonsense. I purchased these cars new with these suspensions as did friends with Chevs. and they always road incredibly well with unbelievable control in the corners and at speed; never harsh and we didn't have radial tires back then. As for poly bushings I considered them and researched a number of forums with respect to same. I read good and bad and I have talked to quite a few that have used them, mostly they liked them and felt they made the ride firm with good road feel. There were two reasons I went with rubber; one was that I really wanted the car original and secondly, and most importantly, when doing the rear you must use your old shells from your rubber bushings to install your new poly bushings into. I checked the Chev forums and sure enough most destroyed their 40 year old originals when they were attempting to remove their bushings. When I dismantled mine I at least was consistent with them, I absolutely destroyed the 40 year old bushings and shells they were held in. A few people wanted the poly enough to purchase new rubber bushings to get the new shells and then removed the rubber; not that easy either. In this way however, you have purchased two sets of bushings. The only concern I would have with using a F41 spring would be if you were using it with a small block as there is a considerable weight difference and as far as I am concerned the F41 was developed for use with big blocks only. This will likely cause some opposing views however it would take documentation to prove otherwise, not just looking under a car and finding a large front sway bar. By the way I tried a spring compressor on my new springs and couldn't get them compressed even close to enough. I took them in and had them compressed and banded, down to about 12", barely enough. Having the weight of a car over the control arms would make it easier, rather than a bare frame, as you would have something to put a floor jack under once the coil is partly in place on the lower control arm. You could then jack against the weight of the car until you can get the nuts on the ball joints. Once you get the ball joints snugged up you can cut the bands on the coils. It will still make you jump however its in the pocket with no place to go.
DANO65 said
May 19, 2010
Just a note to you guys doing front springs on a 65-70 B body. Read a manual. These do not come apart the way you would think. DO NOT separate the ball joints. Remove strut rod and sway bar link. The lower control arm is dropped by removing the inner pivot pin. A floor jack with a short piece of 2x4 cut at a 45 degree angle set on top is inserted into the lower control arm by the bushing. Jack to take the load, remove pin, and lower slowly. The whole thing swings down and out easily. And amazingly goes back just as easy, it would seem a little wiggly but it isn't and basiclly just goes right back where it was. I have even done this on a bare frame with just the engine( BB ) sitting in it for weight. No need for spring compressors or banding the spring.
And don't forget to mark the position of the cam on the pivot pin before you start as this is your camber setting.
-- Edited by DANO65 on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 11:51:04 AM
rarechev said
May 19, 2010
Hey Dan, good info thanks, however a month to late i put all new springs in the impala with a spring compresser
I'm going to start my front end rebuild on the 67 in a couple of weeks. Phase I will be new rubber bushings and ball joints. I'm lucky, I had a spare set of arms that I was able to blast, paint and add new bushings (oem) and ball joints. So it'll save a little time in doing the job. I'll replace the strut rod bushings as well. This should improve the ride...the upper control arm bushings are pretty much metal to metal right now. Phase 2 will be tie rods and Idler arm and hopefully the drag link is ok.
So as much as I like the ride hight of the car up front, she just sags too far when I have passengers in the car. So it's probably time for springs, but I dont want it to be too high. Am I making a mistake here doing springs? Apparently matching springs can still be got in the Carquest system.
Carl, if you may, what is the Moog number for 67' CF code springs. Part # 3864719.
Cheers, Mark.
I have 255 60 16 T/A's. They rub their outer edge on the inside of the wheel well trim when I make a quick turn. If I'm braking and making a sharp turn, say like into a Hortons, they rub alarmingly! More so with 6 people!
Now the wheelwell trim edge actually could be persuaded back up into a tighter fit on the inside, up underneath where it can't be seen. It is away from the tub almost 1/2" in some spots up top. This is what catches the treadblocks as they come up and rotate forward and make contact with the trim. It's like a open blade and it's actually cutting the treadblocks. Maybe massaging the trim edge up into a 45 degree angle might just do it. I could live with some rubbing, jut not the cutting. Perhaps some new 235/60's front only?
If I could get the same factory spring rate, I'd be fine. Less sag with weight and a similar ride hight.
Rick, I'd say judging by your avtar shot, that stance looks correct, and mine seems just slightly low.
It's somthing I never really thought much about.
Springs ("stock" replacement who knows for sure) with approx 30,000 miles on them.
-- Edited by 67rag396 on Monday 3rd of May 2010 09:23:49 PM
i would say stock replacment then bounce on the hood till its where you want it only like 2 weeks of bouncing?
How's the Cat running? That sludge issue had me worried!
I did think of using poly, but for this car I've chosen oem rubber.
I want a tight ride, but logic tells me you'll get less bind and better suspension articulation with rubber. Maybe a little more shudder over sharp bumps and less precice in the corners, but it won't be as harsh on the flats. It's a cruiser after all. What I'm really after is less body lean. A huge ADDCO aftermarket front bar with poly bushings in combination with the rear bar and Bilstiens should make that possible.
Of course rubber won't last as long, but I'll not see that in another 43 years!
Cheers, Mark
Gummout motor flush, dump n change
Runnin Royal Purple, and some slick 50
Going to run her like that for the summer, I hope
Im in the hunt for 421/428/455
Waiting for chrome
will have her ready for June and some freash pictures
want to hit some southern ontario cruise nights
Pontiac Dreams All
I replaced one car with nos rubber and either our ozone is alot worse than 40 years ago but they didnt stand up, and redoing big block front springs is not on my to do list even with a spring compressor it took some burly MPs sitting on my fenders to get everything hooked up. dont put F-41 big block in anything it rides like a buckboard. now i know why they got rid of the car at 14thousand
And don't forget to mark the position of the cam on the pivot pin before you start as this is your camber setting.
-- Edited by DANO65 on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 11:51:04 AM