hey guys i know paint and body Is coming and I'm scared to hell of it really...with all the help im getting i should be at this stage in the next month or so when the weather is around 17-20 hopefully it needs a lot of work but ill do it and find a way to keep it low budget like always lol my question is what single stage paint should i use and where do i buy it... do i need to prime it? with that kind of paint?
My mark for this car is the last cruise day of the season i want it to be there
im just getting this forum up and running kinda if anyone wants to do a cheap paint job
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
i was looking at my old thread and went to my local candian tire looking for western or Nason paint but yeilded no results =( asked the parts guys there they said they had no idea there was a single stage paint and did not know where to find it lol i asked 5 people even the manager of the auto department so anyone have any other idea's
Paulish said
Apr 3, 2011
You use primer over body filler and bare metal. A good hi-build primer can help you smooth out minor imperfections.
You have a plan of attack? Theres a bunch of steps to follow if you want to turn out a decent job.
Western and Nason are both "ok" cheap paints. I've used them both before with pretty good results. You painting it yourself? in your garage?
Laurentian said
Apr 3, 2011
Jon
1.Etch primer or Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy always use one on any bare metal but:
Etch must be coated with surfacer or sealer prior to color (chemical adhesion) requires gun with plastic pot
Epoxy can be used as a DTM sealer excellent product (mechanical adhesion)
2.Primer Surfacer/ high build
Minor imperfections nothing bigger than a true 180 grit scratch (must be sanded, this is the product that takes the job from body work to a paint job i.e. gets you into your paint finishing grits) sanding is performed with a long block 320 or 400 and final sanded with a good quality fine action DA sander with a foam interface pad to remove the block scratches The car should only have to be primer surfaced once. If not, the body work was not finished properly. There is a spray body filler that may be used on big repair areas (full quarter). It should be used with caution as it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
3.Primer sealer does four things good idea but not always necessary
1.seals top coats from penetrating into undercoats
2. uniform ground coat (color hiding)
3. proper value shade (correct color)
4. fills very minor imperfections such as P320-P400 grit
Single stage paint Careful as you may not be able to get it any more due to VOC laws. I believe Dupont Cenari is still available. Or go with Base Clear. It is easier in the sense that the color is separate from the gloss and texture and shine. Both are easy to finesse. If you are going metallic or pearl paint, go Base/ Clear.
If you need practise with the gun Spray. Spray your parents car with tap water to practise technique just rinse your gun with gun wash prior to painting. Should freak them out as well!
Couple points to remember when you are tired of body work and just want to finish the dam thing
"Paint is an excellent mirror to show what went wrong"
"Crap job goes into the booth, Crap job comes out of the booth"
"Paint only fixes PERFECT body work"
" How ever long you think it will take, It will take longer, mix with slower hardeners and reducers than conditions to give your self time"
"Slow, Gradual, Controlled"
"Stay within system. We are techs not chemists"
Good Luck
tin indian said
Apr 3, 2011
ppg essential is a good single stage. if you know anybody in your area, that does paint & body work, become thier best friend imeadiately.
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
Paulish wrote:
You use primer over body filler and bare metal. A good hi-build primer can help you smooth out minor imperfections.
You have a plan of attack? Theres a bunch of steps to follow if you want to turn out a decent job.
Western and Nason are both "ok" cheap paints. I've used them both before with pretty good results. You painting it yourself? in your garage?
i don't have a garage im building a paint booth out of 2x4's and tarps lol
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
Laurentian wrote:
Jon
1.Etch primer or Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy always use one on any bare metal but:
Etch must be coated with surfacer or sealer prior to color (chemical adhesion) requires gun with plastic pot
Epoxy can be used as a DTM sealer excellent product (mechanical adhesion)
2.Primer Surfacer/ high build
Minor imperfections nothing bigger than a true 180 grit scratch (must be sanded, this is the product that takes the job from body work to a paint job i.e. gets you into your paint finishing grits) sanding is performed with a long block 320 or 400 and final sanded with a good quality fine action DA sander with a foam interface pad to remove the block scratches The car should only have to be primer surfaced once. If not, the body work was not finished properly. There is a spray body filler that may be used on big repair areas (full quarter). It should be used with caution as it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
3.Primer sealer does four things good idea but not always necessary
1.seals top coats from penetrating into undercoats
2. uniform ground coat (color hiding)
3. proper value shade (correct color)
4. fills very minor imperfections such as P320-P400 grit
Single stage paint Careful as you may not be able to get it any more due to VOC laws. I believe Dupont Cenari is still available. Or go with Base Clear. It is easier in the sense that the color is separate from the gloss and texture and shine. Both are easy to finesse. If you are going metallic or pearl paint, go Base/ Clear.
If you need practise with the gun Spray. Spray your parents car with tap water to practise technique just rinse your gun with gun wash prior to painting. Should freak them out as well!
Couple points to remember when you are tired of body work and just want to finish the dam thing
"Paint is an excellent mirror to show what went wrong"
"Crap job goes into the booth, Crap job comes out of the booth"
"Paint only fixes PERFECT body work"
" How ever long you think it will take, It will take longer, mix with slower hardeners and reducers than conditions to give your self time"
"Slow, Gradual, Controlled"
"Stay within system. We are techs not chemists"
Good Luck
i agree with you on the method of painting any idea on what it would cost?
65sssd said
Apr 3, 2011
jonathanD wrote:
Laurentian wrote:
Jon
1.Etch primer or Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy always use one on any bare metal but:
Etch must be coated with surfacer or sealer prior to color (chemical adhesion) requires gun with plastic pot
Epoxy can be used as a DTM sealer excellent product (mechanical adhesion)
2.Primer Surfacer/ high build
Minor imperfections nothing bigger than a true 180 grit scratch (must be sanded, this is the product that takes the job from body work to a paint job i.e. gets you into your paint finishing grits) sanding is performed with a long block 320 or 400 and final sanded with a good quality fine action DA sander with a foam interface pad to remove the block scratches The car should only have to be primer surfaced once. If not, the body work was not finished properly. There is a spray body filler that may be used on big repair areas (full quarter). It should be used with caution as it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
3.Primer sealer does four things good idea but not always necessary
1.seals top coats from penetrating into undercoats
2. uniform ground coat (color hiding)
3. proper value shade (correct color)
4. fills very minor imperfections such as P320-P400 grit
Single stage paint Careful as you may not be able to get it any more due to VOC laws. I believe Dupont Cenari is still available. Or go with Base Clear. It is easier in the sense that the color is separate from the gloss and texture and shine. Both are easy to finesse. If you are going metallic or pearl paint, go Base/ Clear.
If you need practise with the gun Spray. Spray your parents car with tap water to practise technique just rinse your gun with gun wash prior to painting. Should freak them out as well!
Couple points to remember when you are tired of body work and just want to finish the dam thing
"Paint is an excellent mirror to show what went wrong"
"Crap job goes into the booth, Crap job comes out of the booth"
"Paint only fixes PERFECT body work"
" How ever long you think it will take, It will take longer, mix with slower hardeners and reducers than conditions to give your self time"
"Slow, Gradual, Controlled"
"Stay within system. We are techs not chemists"
Good Luck
i agree with you on the method of painting any idea on what it would cost?
600.00 with the enamels (single stage)and 1000 with the base clear ( two stage). Only ruffly. It can vary with different colors and different qualities of clear. Red usally is the most expensive.
66 Grande guy said
Apr 3, 2011
That is some of the best and most practical body working advice I've ever read especially the tips at the end. (hard won knowledge I figure) I'm trying to resurrect my skills which were not that great 20 years ago to work on my 66. The technology has past me by but this has told me more clearly than i have seen elswhere what i should do and what I shouldn't .
I'm thinking I'll have to farm the real touchy stuff out as its my standards my aging and my impatience that are the real problem. Mechanics, electrics, rough body stuff like rust repair and assembly I can do. Stuff that takes a sensitive touch I don't know....
Thanks!
crazyj said
Apr 3, 2011
66 Grande guy wrote:
That is some of the best and most practical body working advice I've ever read especially the tips at the end. (hard won knowledge I figure) I'm trying to resurrect my skills which were not that great 20 years ago to work on my 66. The technology has past me by but this has told me more clearly than i have seen elswhere what i should do and what I shouldn't .
I'm thinking I'll have to farm the real touchy stuff out as its my standards my aging and my impatience that are the real problem. Mechanics, electrics, rough body stuff like rust repair and assembly I can do. Stuff that takes a sensitive touch I don't know....
Thanks!
Hi Ken, If you ever need a hand or need advise concerning paint or body just fire up the coffee pot and we'll be over, you know that dont ya ? Any time...
crazyj said
Apr 3, 2011
Jonathan, where are you planning on setting up your makeshift paint booth ? Do you have a garage to work in or are you planning on doing all the welding ,body work and paint in the driveway ?
jim_ss409 said
Apr 3, 2011
Laurentian wrote:
Jon
1.Etch primer or Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy always use one on any bare metal but:
Etch must be coated with surfacer or sealer prior to color (chemical adhesion) requires gun with plastic pot
Epoxy can be used as a DTM sealer excellent product (mechanical adhesion)
2.Primer Surfacer/ high build
Minor imperfections nothing bigger than a true 180 grit scratch (must be sanded, this is the product that takes the job from body work to a paint job i.e. gets you into your paint finishing grits) sanding is performed with a long block 320 or 400 and final sanded with a good quality fine action DA sander with a foam interface pad to remove the block scratches The car should only have to be primer surfaced once. If not, the body work was not finished properly. There is a spray body filler that may be used on big repair areas (full quarter). It should be used with caution as it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
3.Primer sealer does four things good idea but not always necessary
1.seals top coats from penetrating into undercoats
2. uniform ground coat (color hiding)
3. proper value shade (correct color)
4. fills very minor imperfections such as P320-P400 grit
Single stage paint Careful as you may not be able to get it any more due to VOC laws. I believe Dupont Cenari is still available. Or go with Base Clear. It is easier in the sense that the color is separate from the gloss and texture and shine. Both are easy to finesse. If you are going metallic or pearl paint, go Base/ Clear.
If you need practise with the gun Spray. Spray your parents car with tap water to practise technique just rinse your gun with gun wash prior to painting. Should freak them out as well!
Couple points to remember when you are tired of body work and just want to finish the dam thing
"Paint is an excellent mirror to show what went wrong"
"Crap job goes into the booth, Crap job comes out of the booth"
"Paint only fixes PERFECT body work"
" How ever long you think it will take, It will take longer, mix with slower hardeners and reducers than conditions to give your self time"
"Slow, Gradual, Controlled"
"Stay within system. We are techs not chemists"
Good Luck
That's terrific advise!
As an amateur I find I can't always get away with just one coat of primer surfacer. I try to get the panels as smooth as I can with just the filler but at some point I usually have to give a coat of surfacer just to cover the multicolored blotches of filler. I think a real body man can feel the high and low spots better.
On the project I'm working on now I used a thin coat of the spray on body filler after I got the panels as smooth as I could with the regular filler. That way I should be able to only need one coat of primer surfacer.
Laurentian said that spray on fillers can cause as many problems as it fixes. I'm sure he's right about that. So far I've been pretty lucky with it but I try to use it sparingly and I know that it needs to be completely covered by primer or sealer. One other thing about spray on filler. It requires a special gun so it gets expensive.
One thing that I find helps an amateur like myself is to use a long straight edge, I have a 4 foot aluminum ruler that I hold up against the flat panels. That way I can see low spots that I can't always feel. The straight edge helps make up for my lack of talent and experience.
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
crazyj wrote:
Jonathan, where are you planning on setting up your makeshift paint booth ? Do you have a garage to work in or are you planning on doing all the welding ,body work and paint in the driveway ?
in the drive way wooooo i could bring my car to my school to weld up the floors and rockers with it there i could use the hoist to do the underside of the floors =)
Lefty said
Apr 3, 2011
I paid $750 for Base clear and it turned out ok, had to spend a lot of hours after sanding with 3000 and a buffer tyo get rid of small bits of dust and minor orange peal.
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
im still havomg am isssue finding any single stage paint products maybe im just googling it wrong but i don't know lol im still thinking about spray bombing it just to get it sealed and looking better then bare metal and primer / body filler and again my budget comes into play once again lol im thinking the tremclad paint job might be the best until i can afford somthing good =)
66 Grande guy said
Apr 3, 2011
crazyj wrote:
66 Grande guy wrote:
That is some of the best and most practical body working advice I've ever read especially the tips at the end. (hard won knowledge I figure) I'm trying to resurrect my skills which were not that great 20 years ago to work on my 66. The technology has past me by but this has told me more clearly than i have seen elswhere what i should do and what I shouldn't .
I'm thinking I'll have to farm the real touchy stuff out as its my standards my aging and my impatience that are the real problem. Mechanics, electrics, rough body stuff like rust repair and assembly I can do. Stuff that takes a sensitive touch I don't know....
Thanks!
Hi Ken, If you ever need a hand or need advise concerning paint or body just fire up the coffee pot and we'll be over, you know that dont ya ? Any time...
Souns good crazy j. As soon as my yard is not a quagmire i'll drive over with my old 70 Chevy pickup for a good chinwag.
Ken
DrCAS said
Apr 3, 2011
Spray bombing your car is false economy. It is actually harder to spray with a can than a gun and make it look nice.
There are many low cost spray guns available. HVLP guns are good. Low overspray. Get a full body condom suit and supplied air mask. Rent it if you have you.
Vo-tech schools are an option as well.
jonathanD said
Apr 3, 2011
oh i have 2 hvlp guns they came with my compressor lol!
crazyj said
Apr 3, 2011
Jonathan, don't put Tremclad on your car if money is that tight leave it in urethane primer, you can even get tintable. You shouldn't even attempt to paint your car in the driveway unless you want to spend the summer cleaning overspray off your parents and the neighbors cars,fence and house. Even with good paint arresters there will still be overspray, is it possible to rent a booth at a local shop just to spray the car.Do you have a mig welder so you can do your metal work ?
beaumontguru said
Apr 3, 2011
The waterborne paint laws have really messed up getting single stage stuff, but it is still readily avail from paint distributors such as PPG or DUPONT.
I would recomend checking out PPG OMNI 2.8 single stage. it is still solvent based, but is VOC compliant for our retarded canadian government.
Find the PPG distributor by checking your local body shops that spray PPG finishes
If you cant find a PPG distributor, then dupont has nason compliant too, but it is total crap in comparison
THE best thing about PPG is their database is very good for old car color codes and the OMNI line has good color matches.
For about 200 dollars you should be able to get a gallon of omni 2.8 in whatever color you want with hardner and reducer. It is very thin to start with, so dont reduce it as much as they say to, infact, i would not reduce it at all, or very little.
Use your HVLP gun it will work, mix match experiment, its not rocket science. and will be a lot easier than you think.
And the resuts will be far superior to buying canadian tire spraybombs.(and cheaper, have you seen the price of a canadian tire spray paint lately!!!!)
-- Edited by beaumontguru on Sunday 3rd of April 2011 06:18:43 PM
beaumontguru said
Apr 3, 2011
Whatever you do do NOT use tremclad, it will be a nightmare for the rest of the cars life!
kbell6987 said
Apr 9, 2011
i work for a big rig collision shop and we use nason all the time on the trucks it is cheep but it is also strong and very durable if you want a more of a metalic paint you could go with imron by dupont
hey guys i know paint and body Is coming and I'm scared to hell of it really...with all the help im getting i should be at this stage in the next month or so when the weather is around 17-20 hopefully it needs a lot of work but ill do it and find a way to keep it low budget like always lol my question is what single stage paint should i use and where do i buy it... do i need to prime it? with that kind of paint?
My mark for this car is the last cruise day of the season i want it to be there
im just getting this forum up and running kinda if anyone wants to do a cheap paint job
i was looking at my old thread and went to my local candian tire looking for western or Nason paint but yeilded no results =( asked the parts guys there they said they had no idea there was a single stage paint and did not know where to find it lol i asked 5 people even the manager of the auto department so anyone have any other idea's
You use primer over body filler and bare metal. A good hi-build primer can help you smooth out minor imperfections.
You have a plan of attack? Theres a bunch of steps to follow if you want to turn out a decent job.
Western and Nason are both "ok" cheap paints. I've used them both before with pretty good results. You painting it yourself? in your garage?
Jon
1.Etch primer or Direct to Metal (DTM) epoxy always use one on any bare metal but:
Etch must be coated with surfacer or sealer prior to color (chemical adhesion) requires gun with plastic pot
Epoxy can be used as a DTM sealer excellent product (mechanical adhesion)
2.Primer Surfacer/ high build
Minor imperfections nothing bigger than a true 180 grit scratch (must be sanded, this is the product that takes the job from body work to a paint job i.e. gets you into your paint finishing grits) sanding is performed with a long block 320 or 400 and final sanded with a good quality fine action DA sander with a foam interface pad to remove the block scratches The car should only have to be primer surfaced once. If not, the body work was not finished properly. There is a spray body filler that may be used on big repair areas (full quarter). It should be used with caution as it can cause as many problems as it fixes.
3.Primer sealer does four things good idea but not always necessary
1.seals top coats from penetrating into undercoats
2. uniform ground coat (color hiding)
3. proper value shade (correct color)
4. fills very minor imperfections such as P320-P400 grit
Single stage paint Careful as you may not be able to get it any more due to VOC laws. I believe Dupont Cenari is still available. Or go with Base Clear. It is easier in the sense that the color is separate from the gloss and texture and shine. Both are easy to finesse. If you are going metallic or pearl paint, go Base/ Clear.
If you need practise with the gun Spray. Spray your parents car with tap water to practise technique just rinse your gun with gun wash prior to painting. Should freak them out as well!
Couple points to remember when you are tired of body work and just want to finish the dam thing
"Paint is an excellent mirror to show what went wrong"
"Crap job goes into the booth, Crap job comes out of the booth"
"Paint only fixes PERFECT body work"
" How ever long you think it will take, It will take longer, mix with slower hardeners and reducers than conditions to give your self time"
"Slow, Gradual, Controlled"
"Stay within system. We are techs not chemists"
Good Luck
i don't have a garage im building a paint booth out of 2x4's and tarps lol
i agree with you on the method of painting any idea on what it would cost?
600.00 with the enamels (single stage)and 1000 with the base clear ( two stage). Only ruffly. It can vary with different colors and different qualities of clear. Red usally is the most expensive.
That is some of the best and most practical body working advice I've ever read especially the tips at the end. (hard won knowledge I figure) I'm trying to resurrect my skills which were not that great 20 years ago to work on my 66. The technology has past me by but this has told me more clearly than i have seen elswhere what i should do and what I shouldn't .
I'm thinking I'll have to farm the real touchy stuff out as its my standards my aging and my impatience that are the real problem. Mechanics, electrics, rough body stuff like rust repair and assembly I can do. Stuff that takes a sensitive touch I don't know....
Thanks!
Hi Ken, If you ever need a hand or need advise concerning paint or body just fire up the coffee pot and we'll be over, you know that dont ya ? Any time...
Jonathan, where are you planning on setting up your makeshift paint booth ? Do you have a garage to work in or are you planning on doing all the welding ,body work and paint in the driveway ?
That's terrific advise!
As an amateur I find I can't always get away with just one coat of primer surfacer. I try to get the panels as smooth as I can with just the filler but at some point I usually have to give a coat of surfacer just to cover the multicolored blotches of filler. I think a real body man can feel the high and low spots better.
On the project I'm working on now I used a thin coat of the spray on body filler after I got the panels as smooth as I could with the regular filler. That way I should be able to only need one coat of primer surfacer.
Laurentian said that spray on fillers can cause as many problems as it fixes. I'm sure he's right about that. So far I've been pretty lucky with it but I try to use it sparingly and I know that it needs to be completely covered by primer or sealer. One other thing about spray on filler. It requires a special gun so it gets expensive.
One thing that I find helps an amateur like myself is to use a long straight edge, I have a 4 foot aluminum ruler that I hold up against the flat panels. That way I can see low spots that I can't always feel. The straight edge helps make up for my lack of talent and experience.
in the drive way wooooo i could bring my car to my school to weld up the floors and rockers with it there i could use the hoist to do the underside of the floors =)
I paid $750 for Base clear and it turned out ok, had to spend a lot of hours after sanding with 3000 and a buffer
tyo get rid of small bits of dust and minor orange peal.
im still havomg am isssue finding any single stage paint products maybe im just googling it wrong but i don't know lol im still thinking about spray bombing it just to get it sealed and looking better then bare metal and primer / body filler and again my budget comes into play once again lol im thinking the tremclad paint job might be the best until i can afford somthing good =)
Souns good crazy j. As soon as my yard is not a quagmire i'll drive over with my old 70 Chevy pickup for a good chinwag.
Ken
There are many low cost spray guns available. HVLP guns are good. Low overspray. Get a full body condom suit and supplied air mask. Rent it if you have you.
Vo-tech schools are an option as well.
oh i have 2 hvlp guns they came with my compressor lol!
Jonathan, don't put Tremclad on your car if money is that tight leave it in urethane primer, you can even get tintable. You shouldn't even attempt to paint your car in the driveway unless you want to spend the summer cleaning overspray off your parents and the neighbors cars,fence and house. Even with good paint arresters there will still be overspray, is it possible to rent a booth at a local shop just to spray the car.Do you have a mig welder so you can do your metal work ?
The waterborne paint laws have really messed up getting single stage stuff, but it is still readily avail from paint distributors such as PPG or DUPONT.
I would recomend checking out PPG OMNI 2.8 single stage. it is still solvent based, but is VOC compliant for our retarded canadian government.
Find the PPG distributor by checking your local body shops that spray PPG finishes
If you cant find a PPG distributor, then dupont has nason compliant too, but it is total crap in comparison
THE best thing about PPG is their database is very good for old car color codes and the OMNI line has good color matches.
For about 200 dollars you should be able to get a gallon of omni 2.8 in whatever color you want with hardner and reducer. It is very thin to start with, so dont reduce it as much as they say to, infact, i would not reduce it at all, or very little.
Use your HVLP gun it will work, mix match experiment, its not rocket science. and will be a lot easier than you think.
And the resuts will be far superior to buying canadian tire spraybombs.(and cheaper, have you seen the price of a canadian tire spray paint lately!!!!)
-- Edited by beaumontguru on Sunday 3rd of April 2011 06:18:43 PM
Whatever you do do NOT use tremclad, it will be a nightmare for the rest of the cars life!
i work for a big rig collision shop and we use nason all the time on the trucks it is cheep but it is also strong and very durable if you want a more of a metalic paint you could go with imron by dupont