My 77 wag. Original Victoria, BC car. Factory 400, 4bbl, duals. The only mods I have done so far are to add poly suspension bushings, KYB gas shocks, DSE 1" front drop springs and DSE hollow 1-3/8" front bar. The car is amazingly fun to drive and toss around.
I think it looks OK in the pics, but there are some "body image" issues. The positive news is that I am on a course to fix the the areas that need attention.
-- Edited by 73SC on Sunday 19th of February 2012 07:09:42 PM
73SC said
Feb 19, 2012
Rick is the guy for all your questions. Very few people know about this generation of LeMans and I can confidently use the term expert when referring to him. I am glad you got your answer so promptly. Your safari looks amazing. The 400 4bbl would have 4 been the top engine in 1977. What factory was it made in?
-- Edited by 73SC on Sunday 19th of February 2012 06:51:57 PM
Paladin said
Feb 19, 2012
I have a 77 Lemans Safari wagon "survivor". It is my DD but also a project as I want to restore it as I use it daily. There is rust in 2 of the doors, the passenger front door being the one in the poorest condition.
I have been researching as many on-line photos as I can find of 73-77 four-door A-bodies to confirm that these are in fact the same doors used on the wagons.
The only difference that I can see is that the back door glass is different on the wagons versus the sedans, therefore requiring a glass swap in those doors.
Can anyone confirm that these are indeed the same doors, again with the only difference being that back door glass?
Thanks in advance for the input everyone!
73SC said
Feb 19, 2012
I am 99% sure they are the same door. To be absolutely 100% positive send a quick email to Rick Lightfoot - rlightfoot@stny.rr.com
Rick is the Technical Advisor for 1973-77 A Body Pontiacs with the Pontiac Oakland Club and he owns a stable of GTO, LeMans and Can Am cars. You can mention Ray White from Toronto with the Blue 454 '73 Lemans Sport gave you his contact information.
Paladin said
Feb 19, 2012
That's awesome Ray, thanks for the info and prompt response. I'll contact Rick and mention your name for sure. I'll let you know how it goes so the information is there for all to see.
Cheers!
Gavin.
timbuk said
Feb 19, 2012
it could be possible that the window frame may also be different....I know they are for a 67 a body wagon we took sedan door and changed the window and cut off sedan frame swapped in wagon frame.hope that helps,dont throw away wagon doors yet!
Paladin said
Feb 19, 2012
Hi Tim,
Thanks for for the insight as I want to be 100% sure on this. The windows on the 73-77 are "frameless", so unless I am misunderstanding, or you mean the actual body frame that the glass on the doors closes into, (and short of the A and B pillars being at a different angle), then I might not have to do any mods there.
My biggest concern is the door itself fitting into the body. I am pretty sure from what I have observered so far that they are one and the same. But you never can tell what little "tweaks" the factory employed from one body style to the next in the same line.
Fingers crossed that the sedan doors are the same because my odds of locating original rust free wagon doors are right up there with winning the lottery.
timbuk said
Feb 19, 2012
frameless! perfect one less thing to worry about them cars are gettin rare to find good luck throw up a pix of your wagoon!
Paladin said
Feb 20, 2012
Ray, here is the reply from Rick:
The wagon and sedan door shells are identical. The rear door glass is wagon specific.
As thought, but nice to have it confirmed. Thanks again Ray for the tip to contact Rick, much appreciated.
Paladin said
Feb 20, 2012
Um, I meant to say, "it looks OK in the pics". Pretend the "don't" isn't there.
73SC said
Feb 20, 2012
Paladin wrote:
Um, I meant to say, "it looks OK in the pics". Pretend the "don't" isn't there.
No need to pretend I used my magical power and fixed it for you. You can edit your post as well.
76GLM said
Feb 20, 2012
Hi Gavin,
Nice to see you on the board. We were talking about my '75 Gand Am part's car. I'm heading out to Vancouver in April and then going to Portland with a few buddies for the big swap meet. The wagon look's very cool!!
Robert
timbuk said
Feb 20, 2012
dont forget the stationwagonforums....jenny and wayne told me!
CdnGMfan said
Feb 20, 2012
The wagon is a beaut! The funny thing is you could get a 400 Pontiac in the Lemans wagon that year, but the Canadian Pontiac B-body (full-size line) only offered up to the Chevy 350 (U.S. B-body Pontiacs offered the 400 Pontiac).
73SC said
Feb 20, 2012
First year for B downsize, probably weighed less than the Lemans too. 400 had about 180 HP by then and 350 4bbl LM1 was 170 HP if I am not mistaken. I think the US B body might have got the Olds 403, at least I recall seeing a Bonneville with a 403.
rexs73gto said
Nov 19, 2014
Are you sure it was a 403 & not a 307. The 307 was a favorite engine in the B-bodies from 77-84. Not saying it wasn't but Are you sure???
73SC said
Nov 19, 2014
rexs73gto wrote:
Are you sure it was a 403 & not a 307. The 307 was a favorite engine in the B-bodies from 77-84. Not saying it wasn't but Are you sure???
Are you sure it was a 403 & not a 307. The 307 was a favorite engine in the B-bodies from 77-84. Not saying it wasn't but Are you sure???
The 307 Olds didn't come out until the 1980 models. The downsized 1977 B-body Pontiacs built in the U.S. used the 231 Buick V6 as base, a 301 Pontiac as the base V8, plus Pontiac 350 & 400 V8s optional. In California & High Altitude regions they used the Olds 350 & 403 in place of the Pontiac V8s.
The downsized 1977 B-body Pontiacs built in Canada used the Chevy 250 straight six as base, plus the 305 2-barrel Chevy & Chevy 350 4-barrel. That was it.
For 1980 the straight six was dropped and replaced with a 229 Chevy (Canada) while the 231 Buick carried over in the U.S. You started seeing the 267 Chevy V8, 305 4-barrel as the top option, plus the wagons offered a 350 Chevy or an Oldsmobile Diesel 350. Lockup torque converters made their dubious debut for 1980 along with low-drag disk brakes and smaller a/c compressors.
-- Edited by CdnGMfan on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 06:06:28 PM
My 77 wag. Original Victoria, BC car. Factory 400, 4bbl, duals. The only mods I have done so far are to add poly suspension bushings, KYB gas shocks, DSE 1" front drop springs and DSE hollow 1-3/8" front bar. The car is amazingly fun to drive and toss around.
I think it looks OK in the pics, but there are some "body image" issues. The positive news is that I am on a course to fix the the areas that need attention.
-- Edited by 73SC on Sunday 19th of February 2012 07:09:42 PM
Rick is the guy for all your questions. Very few people know about this generation of LeMans and I can confidently use the term expert when referring to him. I am glad you got your answer so promptly. Your safari looks amazing. The 400 4bbl would have 4 been the top engine in 1977. What factory was it made in?
-- Edited by 73SC on Sunday 19th of February 2012 06:51:57 PM
I have a 77 Lemans Safari wagon "survivor". It is my DD but also a project as I want to restore it as I use it daily. There is rust in 2 of the doors, the passenger front door being the one in the poorest condition.
I have been researching as many on-line photos as I can find of 73-77 four-door A-bodies to confirm that these are in fact the same doors used on the wagons.
The only difference that I can see is that the back door glass is different on the wagons versus the sedans, therefore requiring a glass swap in those doors.
Can anyone confirm that these are indeed the same doors, again with the only difference being that back door glass?
Thanks in advance for the input everyone!
I am 99% sure they are the same door. To be absolutely 100% positive send a quick email to Rick Lightfoot - rlightfoot@stny.rr.com
Rick is the Technical Advisor for 1973-77 A Body Pontiacs with the Pontiac Oakland Club and he owns a stable of GTO, LeMans and Can Am cars. You can mention Ray White from Toronto with the Blue 454 '73 Lemans Sport gave you his contact information.
That's awesome Ray, thanks for the info and prompt response. I'll contact Rick and mention your name for sure. I'll let you know how it goes so the information is there for all to see.
Cheers!
Gavin.
Hi Tim,
Thanks for for the insight as I want to be 100% sure on this. The windows on the 73-77 are "frameless", so unless I am misunderstanding, or you mean the actual body frame that the glass on the doors closes into, (and short of the A and B pillars being at a different angle), then I might not have to do any mods there.
My biggest concern is the door itself fitting into the body. I am pretty sure from what I have observered so far that they are one and the same. But you never can tell what little "tweaks" the factory employed from one body style to the next in the same line.
Fingers crossed that the sedan doors are the same because my odds of locating original rust free wagon doors are right up there with winning the lottery.
Ray, here is the reply from Rick:
The wagon and sedan door shells are identical. The rear door glass is wagon specific.
As thought, but nice to have it confirmed. Thanks again Ray for the tip to contact Rick, much appreciated.
Um, I meant to say, "it looks OK in the pics". Pretend the "don't" isn't there.
No need to pretend I used my magical power and fixed it for you. You can edit your post as well.
Nice to see you on the board. We were talking about my '75 Gand Am part's car. I'm heading out to Vancouver in April and then going to Portland with a few buddies for the big swap meet. The wagon look's very cool!!
Robert
The wagon is a beaut! The funny thing is you could get a 400 Pontiac in the Lemans wagon that year, but the Canadian Pontiac B-body (full-size line) only offered up to the Chevy 350 (U.S. B-body Pontiacs offered the 400 Pontiac).
First year for B downsize, probably weighed less than the Lemans too. 400 had about 180 HP by then and 350 4bbl LM1 was 170 HP if I am not mistaken. I think the US B body might have got the Olds 403, at least I recall seeing a Bonneville with a 403.
Yes, CLICK HERE
The 307 Olds didn't come out until the 1980 models. The downsized 1977 B-body Pontiacs built in the U.S. used the 231 Buick V6 as base, a 301 Pontiac as the base V8, plus Pontiac 350 & 400 V8s optional. In California & High Altitude regions they used the Olds 350 & 403 in place of the Pontiac V8s.
The downsized 1977 B-body Pontiacs built in Canada used the Chevy 250 straight six as base, plus the 305 2-barrel Chevy & Chevy 350 4-barrel. That was it.
For 1980 the straight six was dropped and replaced with a 229 Chevy (Canada) while the 231 Buick carried over in the U.S. You started seeing the 267 Chevy V8, 305 4-barrel as the top option, plus the wagons offered a 350 Chevy or an Oldsmobile Diesel 350. Lockup torque converters made their dubious debut for 1980 along with low-drag disk brakes and smaller a/c compressors.
-- Edited by CdnGMfan on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 06:06:28 PM