On a vintage engine (283),.. how nessesary (in reality) is it to add zinc additive to the engine oil. Anyone out there have engine parts failure because they didn't use it. ?
69ss said
Apr 3, 2012
I use Shell Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40.
-- Edited by 69ss on Tuesday 3rd of April 2012 09:46:17 AM
64PARCONUK said
Apr 3, 2012
Mine's never been apart in 48 years. Probably had no zinc oil for decades until I read about it here a year or so ago. Gets a little blue smoke on first start in the morning but that's prolly valve seals. It improves the more I use it. (Bone stock motor)
694279 said
Apr 3, 2012
RUN 20 40 DESIEL OIL
unburt said
Apr 3, 2012
This topic has hit the forum a few times and the oils available in regular stores have no zinc. The only way is to get to a speed shop or some supply house and purchase the good stuff. The contents were 1200ppm-1600 in the good days and now its gone. There are several brands that i have used and some friends which will work great. I use Valvoline V-R1 but Brad Penn is another along with Joe Gibbs specialty oil/ Royal Purple. The additives are also another option such as Lucas which is tops. The problem does exist i have lost a camshaft along with two friends it gets real expensive when your motor grinds valve lifters down a 1/4 inch. This has been in many car forums and many older motors have grenaded themselves. The Desiel oils used to have lots like Shell Rottella but the new standards with emmisions have cut there content back also...be carefull. I guess i have been there and done that and helped a couple guys pull there motors after the carnage, not fun. The best thing is to buy proven products made for older applications. Most of us might drive 2-3k a year so 10/15 bucks more for the right oils are very small for the piece of mind.
long stroke said
Apr 3, 2012
If you are only useing your classic vehicle in warm weather like most of us then you can use a heavy weight deisel oil. Of course this kind of oil would be disasterous in cold weather but in warm weather your motor will love it, espeacially if you motor is worn. I have been useing 20w50 deisel oil in my 1957 Pontiac with 261 inline six cylinder for at least 10 years now and i change it every fall. This oil is more expensive than run of the mill 10w30 oil but it is worth it. I usually wait until it is on sale at places like Can Tire or Walmart and then buy two or three units for the next two or three years. Our older vintage motors can handle these heavier grade oils because of the looser bearing tolerances they were designed with. Obviously you could never use these heavier oils in todays modern engines because of the inherent tight bearing tolerances. Hence todays engines use 5w30 and 10w30 is about as thick as you can go. Your vintage 283 V-8 is going to love a heavy grade quality deisel oil. Cheers. George.
4SPEED427 said
Apr 3, 2012
I'm told that GM EOS is a great source of zinc. I have no idea if that is fact but it's been stated on many many forums.
I've been using GM EOS for the last 2 years , 7 bucks at the wholesalers...
64 Hard Top said
Apr 4, 2012
Thanks everyone for the input.
Once more question.,..
Running regular gas on non hardened valve seats WITHOUT lead additive in gas. Any guesses on how many miles you can get on a set of heads before a rebuild is nessasary? How many of you use lead additive on a regular basis? Every tank or?
427carl said
Apr 4, 2012
64 Hard Top wrote:
Thanks everyone for the input.
Once more question.,..
Running regular gas on non hardened valve seats WITHOUT lead additive in gas.
Any guesses on how many miles you can get on a set of heads before a rebuild is nessasary?
I guess 20 years and 20,000. miles
norontcan said
Apr 5, 2012
I use a lead additive. Picked some up state side - a $5 bottle does 160 US gallons. I also bought a zinc additive. A $25 bottle is enough for 8 oil changes. Never been convinced that either is necessary but it's cheap insurance, just in case.
Also believe that a major factor in answering the original question about unleaded gas mileage is how hard you drive.
64 Hard Top said
Apr 7, 2012
Thanks for the input. Could you tell me the manufaturer of both additives.?.
I go across the line a few times a year so I could also buy in the US.
timbuk said
Apr 8, 2012
i use lucas every oil change about half a litre/quart.Think thats good nuff?
dualquadpete said
Apr 8, 2012
I use lead additive every 2nd. or 3rd. tankfull on local driving in the Catalina, BUT on long hauls to the US or car shows up here I use it every tankfull. It's the long steady runs that cause the damage of constant "hammering" of valves against the seats!!! I used to run Shell Rotella diesel oil but found out they have cut the zinc back [as stated above] I now use Lucas additive & 10W30 as I have seen a few cam & lifters in other peoples "rides" that had "FAILURES"
-- Edited by dualquadpete on Sunday 8th of April 2012 06:50:25 AM
Beaumont4008 said
Apr 8, 2012
Just wondering, what protects todays cam and lifters from failing ? Or do they still. Do the after market cam companies make them better with this in mind ?
Canadian Poncho said
Apr 8, 2012
Most of today's cams are rollers.
unburt said
Apr 8, 2012
Everything went roller some time ago and the reasons for the zinc loss are one enviromental and also the old oil was killing the catalytic conveterers . The easy solution was change the oils, they did not care about the old cars and the info wasnt shared either. Many guys learned the hard way........
norontcan said
Apr 9, 2012
64 Hard Top wrote:
Thanks for the input. Could you tell me the manufaturer of both additives.?.
I go across the line a few times a year so I could also buy in the US.
The ZDDP is made by Cam Shield. I bought it at the Hershey flea market. Time to repurchase. Hope I can find it or a comperable product at Carlisle in a couple of weeks.
The lead substitute is made by CD2. Its called super concentrated lead substitute. I was buying a large bottle ( about $12 and does 320 US gallons ) once or twice a year at places like Pep Boys. I use it in all my old cars and have a bottle handy in each. A couple of years ago I was at WalMart in Carlisle and they had the smaller bottles ( does 160 US gallons ) on sale for 5 bucks so I grabbed what they had. Not sure if its still available as their web site is very limited.
I asked both these questions when I sent my 327 to the machine shop..
George told me the following...
Use Royal Purple break-in oil provides enough zinc...as I will be driving the car less than 2500kms a year that there was no need for hardened seats..if I was driving the car as a daily driver, then hat would be different...
Hope that helps...
Bill shuba said
Oct 14, 2018
Hi guys wondering changing to new cam and bearings ,bottom end bearings , std type lifters and push rods will I still need to add additives in the oil ? Thanks
4SPEED427 said
Oct 14, 2018
I would run GM EOS because it has the zinc in it still.
I plan to build an engine for my car this winter and I will sure be using it in there. I'm hearing the new cams are very prone to wiping out lobes if it's not used.
Are you having someone do it, or are you doing it? Are you familiar with breaking in a cam? It's very important to break it in correctly on initial start up.
68 Grande said
Oct 14, 2018
My 396 was broke in with Joe Gibbs breakin oil, which has zinc. My builder would not fire it up and break in the cam unless I had a mechanical oil pressure guage, a mechanical temp guage and breakin oil with zinc. He suggested Joe Gibbs so that is what I poured in. A bit pricey but as Carl says, cams are prone to being wiped without a zinc additive. Even after break in, run zinc additive. There is a 5 w 30, 10 w 40, or 15 w 50.
On a vintage engine (283),.. how nessesary (in reality) is it to add zinc additive to the engine oil. Anyone out there have engine parts failure because they didn't use it. ?
I use Shell Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40.
-- Edited by 69ss on Tuesday 3rd of April 2012 09:46:17 AM
RUN 20 40 DESIEL OIL
The contents were 1200ppm-1600 in the good days and now its gone. There are several brands that i have used and some friends which will work great.
I use Valvoline V-R1 but Brad Penn is another along with Joe Gibbs specialty oil/ Royal Purple. The additives are also another option such as Lucas which is tops.
The problem does exist i have lost a camshaft along with two friends it gets real expensive when your motor grinds valve lifters down a 1/4 inch. This has been in many car forums and many older motors have grenaded themselves.
The Desiel oils used to have lots like Shell Rottella but the new standards with emmisions have cut there content back also...be carefull.
I guess i have been there and done that and helped a couple guys pull there motors after the carnage, not fun.
The best thing is to buy proven products made for older applications.
Most of us might drive 2-3k a year so 10/15 bucks more for the right oils are very small for the piece of mind.
If you are only useing your classic vehicle in warm weather like most of us then you can use a heavy weight deisel oil. Of course this kind of oil would be disasterous in cold weather but in warm weather your motor will love it, espeacially if you motor is worn. I have been useing 20w50 deisel oil in my 1957 Pontiac with 261 inline six cylinder for at least 10 years now and i change it every fall. This oil is more expensive than run of the mill 10w30 oil but it is worth it. I usually wait until it is on sale at places like Can Tire or Walmart and then buy two or three units for the next two or three years. Our older vintage motors can handle these heavier grade oils because of the looser bearing tolerances they were designed with. Obviously you could never use these heavier oils in todays modern engines because of the inherent tight bearing tolerances. Hence todays engines use 5w30 and 10w30 is about as thick as you can go. Your vintage 283 V-8 is going to love a heavy grade quality deisel oil. Cheers. George.
GM Performance 88862586 - GM Performance E.O.S. Additive
The part number you requested is out of stock; however, the substitute item is very similar to the item you want.
I've been using GM EOS for the last 2 years , 7 bucks at the wholesalers...
Thanks everyone for the input.
Once more question.,..
Running regular gas on non hardened valve seats WITHOUT lead additive in gas. Any guesses on how many miles you can get on a set of heads before a rebuild is nessasary? How many of you use lead additive on a regular basis? Every tank or?
I guess 20 years and 20,000. miles
I also bought a zinc additive. A $25 bottle is enough for 8 oil changes.
Never been convinced that either is necessary but it's cheap insurance, just in case.
Also believe that a major factor in answering the original question about unleaded gas mileage is how hard you drive.
Thanks for the input. Could you tell me the manufaturer of both additives.?.
I go across the line a few times a year so I could also buy in the US.
I use lead additive every 2nd. or 3rd. tankfull on local driving in the Catalina, BUT on long hauls to the US or car shows up here I use it every tankfull. It's the long steady runs that cause the damage of constant "hammering" of valves against the seats!!! I used to run Shell Rotella diesel oil but found out they have cut the zinc back [as stated above] I now use Lucas additive & 10W30 as I have seen a few cam & lifters in other peoples "rides" that had "FAILURES"
-- Edited by dualquadpete on Sunday 8th of April 2012 06:50:25 AM
Just wondering, what protects todays cam and lifters from failing ? Or do they still. Do the after market cam companies make them better with this in mind ?
Many guys learned the hard way........
The ZDDP is made by Cam Shield. I bought it at the Hershey flea market. Time to repurchase. Hope I can find it or a comperable product at Carlisle in a couple of weeks.
www.cam-shield.com
The lead substitute is made by CD2. Its called super concentrated lead substitute. I was buying a large bottle ( about $12 and does 320 US gallons ) once or twice a year at places like Pep Boys. I use it in all my old cars and have a bottle handy in each. A couple of years ago I was at WalMart in Carlisle and they had the smaller bottles ( does 160 US gallons ) on sale for 5 bucks so I grabbed what they had. Not sure if its still available as their web site is very limited.
www.CD-2products.com
George told me the following...
Use Royal Purple break-in oil provides enough zinc...as I will be driving the car less than 2500kms a year that there was no need for hardened seats..if I was driving the car as a daily driver, then hat would be different...
Hope that helps...
I plan to build an engine for my car this winter and I will sure be using it in there. I'm hearing the new cams are very prone to wiping out lobes if it's not used.
Are you having someone do it, or are you doing it? Are you familiar with breaking in a cam? It's very important to break it in correctly on initial start up.
My 396 was broke in with Joe Gibbs breakin oil, which has zinc. My builder would not fire it up and break in the cam unless I had a mechanical oil pressure guage, a mechanical temp guage and breakin oil with zinc. He suggested Joe Gibbs so that is what I poured in. A bit pricey but as Carl says, cams are prone to being wiped without a zinc additive. Even after break in, run zinc additive. There is a 5 w 30, 10 w 40, or 15 w 50.
Just started my rebuild engine on regular oil to which I added a dose of ZDDP additive.
-- Edited by norontcan on Sunday 14th of October 2018 09:04:54 PM
-- Edited by norontcan on Sunday 14th of October 2018 09:05:18 PM