Wilwood 10LB residual valve. Inline with rear system. Needed with drums on a Disc/Disc master. Summit.
1969 Impala drum brake steering arms. 67-70 will work with the stock Impala tie rods.
Used the stock power brake booster (11"?) already in car. Saved some work installing the shiny one I have.
Grade 9 fasteners to mount the caliper bracket and steering arms. Local bolt supply.
Worthy of note;
Spent some time shimming the rotors to the hub, improved the runout some, but to tell you the truth, I'd say it doesn't seem to matter with these Wilwood calipers. I can't feel any pulsing so far. Used new grade 9 bolts on the brackets and arms. All new bearings/seals/caps in the hubs. Homemade splash shield gasket from cork/neoprene sheet.
Used one OEM caliper bracket, the other is a offshore repop. Went through quite a few before I found two that were fairly straight. The straighter they are, the more parallel the calipers will sit in relation to the rotor. Shimming can help here if req. Built 2 rigs to mount the spindles in while building them up. It made it so much easier.
The spindles were ebay items, and came with the vendor promising they were undamaged. Good threads, no ridges on the race surfaces, and no enlarged ball joint stud holes. They were good. They are all over ebay now.
Steering arms were from a 1969 Impala Drum car. 67-70 Drum arms can be used. Direct bolt up here.
Added the 10LB residual valve in line to the rear brakes (keeps the shoes out at the drum), placed it after the master. Still have rear drums (possibly change to disc next year). You'll need the residual as the Disc/Disc master does not have it built in. I could have just bought a Disc/Drum master but that would have been too easy! Added a SSBC adjustable proportioning valve in line after the residual valve. Mounted it on a bracket that bolts to a booster stud. Made my own lines...and none leaked! Carefully measured, made and dry fitted all the lines and valves before taking it all apart and bench bleeding the master. Got the air out fairly quickly. No real issues here.
Original master was the deep hole style. New master was shallow. Carefully measured, cut and ground the end of the long pushrod to work with the shallow master. Made absolutely certain there was a slight clearance, and that it was not pushing on the piston when the master was bolted up. This is very critical. Any piston pre load may build system pressure and cause the brakes to lock.
Bleeding the system was a snap for the most part. Thinking ahead, I installed Russell speed bleeders in the top two bleed screws on each caliper. Used new DOT3 fluid. Left the proportioning valve full open to the rear when bleeding. The rear drums are working well. Pedal feel is absolutely perfect! The Wilwood D8-4 calipers are sweet. Imop, spend the extra $200, don't bother with the stock iron 4 piston calipers.
The end result was, after gently seating the pads, unreal braking right from the get go! A huge difference! I have not even closed down or adjusted the rear proportioning valve yet. The car stops true and straight with no rear lockup. As most of you know, I'm also now running all global west front arms/struts and a big Addco bar, Edelbrock AIS shocks, so that does play a big role in the tracking under heavy braking. I also have installed a AGR 12.7:1 steering box (AGR 492117), which works perfectly right off the shelf.
Cheers, Mark
Bottom line is, as an upgrade on the 65-70 Canadian B Body, a well thought out, pieced together C3 setup with the Wilwood D8-4's will work fantastic first time. And even better... everything is easily available to make it happen! It's all future upgradable to bigger also, Calipers, rotors, hubs, etc. Although the drums worked reasonably well, stopping confidently and with authority really brings a new modern dimension to the 67.
Funny how small the 11.75" rotors look in a 17" rim.
Gratuitous shot, taken tonight at Casablanca....
-- Edited by cdnpont on Saturday 28th of September 2013 11:58:48 AM
macsleuth said
Sep 25, 2013
Wow! Awesome setup, thanks for sharing with pics!
bjburnout said
Sep 26, 2013
Hey Mark
Thanx for the write up.......contemplating this for my 66 Impala.......used to be at Mapleview every Wednesday
back when that was up and running.
Did this setup move the front wheel tread outward?
Will the these rotors work with a 15" Cragar SS?
Car looks great.......and the article is first class
Bernie
cdnpont said
Sep 27, 2013
Thanks for the positive comments guys!
Yes, 15" Cragars should fit. I at least know a 15" Rally wheel will. If you're thinking about doing a conversion, bring a Cragar over and we'll try it on.
The track width has increased. How much I'm not sure. Perhaps 1/4"? Not a bad thing really imop.
One thing everyone should know about this conversion, is that with some minor machining of the spindle upper bracket boss (the upper drum spring anchor), your drum spindles will work as a base for this build. Use 69-70 for the larger outer bearing. I'm willing to bet that drum hubs will also work. And even the smaller bearing 65-68 could probably be utilized.
67BBSD said
Sep 27, 2013
very nice - I have a guy to share this with too
77srx said
Sep 27, 2013
Very sanitary set up super nice lines on that car. Looks nasty!
rebelrouser said
Sep 28, 2013
I did that swap-all 4 corners- last year.I used everything from '65-'82 C3 without cutting off the steering stops.That's the part I didn't use was the steering arms.I did reuse the original ones without any a problem.I posted the whole procedure here a while back and on another forum for "B" bodys.
Nice job though.I wanted to use Wilwood as well but it wasn't in the budget at the time.The rears are just as easy to do with minimal fabrication with a functional integral e-brake just like the C3's have/had.
cdnpont said
Sep 28, 2013
You know, your absolutely right Darren on not having to cut the steering stop. On looking back now, the reason I think I did it was because I followed the early C3 Corvette as a pattern, and they appear to have not have had the stop on their steering arms. When I look at all my images I've saved over the years, the 67-68 Impala does have the stop. Should have followed that as a pattern instead.
So I'll edit the part out about the stops. Makes the conversion all the easier anyway.
Cheers, Mark
bjburnout said
Feb 15, 2014
Would the conversion you have posted here be the same for a 66 Impala........??
cdnpont said
Feb 15, 2014
Yes. Same 65-70.
If you do this, I'd now recommend trying a 1" bore master over the 1.25" to increase brake pressure. I feel that it could afford a little more pedal travel, as a trade off for better pressure.
427carl said
Feb 15, 2014
How much money would this require? How many hours of labor? would 800.00 cover it ?
-- Edited by 427carl on Saturday 15th of February 2014 11:25:31 PM
bjburnout said
Feb 15, 2014
cdnpont wrote:
Yes. Same 65-70.
If you do this, I'd now recommend trying a 1" bore master over the 1.25" to increase brake pressure. I feel that it could afford a little more pedal travel, as a trade off for better pressure.
Your right...........the 1" is the way to go...............
rabbit64cs said
Feb 15, 2014
427carl wrote:
How much money would this require? How many hours of labor? would 800.00 cover it ?
I might have to do this on my 67 427 Laurentian
...tell us more.....
cdnpont said
Feb 15, 2014
427carl wrote:
rabbit64cs wrote:
427carl wrote:
How much money would this require? How many hours of labor? would 800.00 cover it ?
I might have to do this on my 67 427 Laurentian
...tell us more.....
Its late at night so I can tell you Dave at Tin Man found me a 67 427-390 Laurentian 2 door post Was a fire chief car in Vernon B.C. has 12,000 miles on it drum brakes 3 speed on the column... its in transit right now
Sounds incredible Carl!!!
As far as the cost of my conversion,
C3 Spindles - $125pr
C3 splash shields -$100pr
C3 Caliper brackets - $100pr
C3 Rotors -$120pr
New Bearings/seals -$100
Wilwood calipers - $400
Reman master -$100
Adjustable proportioning valve - $80
Wilwood 10lb residual valve - $40
So it's not at all cheap, but I feel it's better than an aftermarket system, and easier to source parts for.
427carl said
Feb 15, 2014
Thanks for the breakdown not as bad as I had thought I'll get you to drop over and slip some parts on for me
cdnpont said
Feb 15, 2014
Just say the word Carl!
BigDogSS said
Mar 4, 2014
Great write up, Mark. This was my second choice for the disc brake upgrade for my 67 Impala SS convertible. My first choice is from 1969-70 Impala, which I installed on my car. I even bought a C3 complete spindle/hub/caliper bracket off ebay because it was cheap and to compare to the Impala spindle. I explored the possibility of this conversion when I found out that 1959-1970 full-size Chevrolets and 1963-82 Corvettes used the same upper/lower ball joints. I then found out they use he same spindle, with the larger one beginning in 1969. It was game-on then. Either of these setups are way better than the run-of-the-mill after market setup --> 11.75" rotors vs. 11". Yes, that makes a huge difference. I may go with the C3 set up for my 1967 Impala SS hardtop w/396. My convertible SS is the best stopping car I own!!
tramminc said
Mar 9, 2014
What's the offset of the front and rear wheels?
Gratuitous shot, taken tonight at Casablanca....
-- Edited by cdnpont on Saturday 28th of September 2013 11:58:48 AM
jonathanD said
May 2, 2014
This is a great write up, with stock upper and lower control arms these spindles are a direct bolt on?
For those who might be interested, I just completed a C3 brake upgrade on my 67 Grande Parisienne.
I used;
69-82 C3 spindles and hubs. Ebay items.
69-82 C3 caliper brackets. Ebay and Repop.
Wilwood D8-4 Calipers. Kit included braided lines/adapters, pads and hardware. Summit.
Russell speed bleeder screws, 1/4-28. Summit.
Parts store rotors. Pattern Dimple drilled and zinc plated by my brother.
Generic Corvette supply splash shields. Offshore. Cheap.
Parts supply C3 1 1/8 " bore master. Generic rebuild. Shallow hole.
SSBC adjustable proportioning valve. Summit.
Wilwood 10LB residual valve. Inline with rear system. Needed with drums on a Disc/Disc master. Summit.
1969 Impala drum brake steering arms. 67-70 will work with the stock Impala tie rods.
Used the stock power brake booster (11"?) already in car. Saved some work installing the shiny one I have.
Grade 9 fasteners to mount the caliper bracket and steering arms. Local bolt supply.
Worthy of note;
Spent some time shimming the rotors to the hub, improved the runout some, but to tell you the truth, I'd say it doesn't seem to matter with these Wilwood calipers. I can't feel any pulsing so far. Used new grade 9 bolts on the brackets and arms. All new bearings/seals/caps in the hubs. Homemade splash shield gasket from cork/neoprene sheet.
Used one OEM caliper bracket, the other is a offshore repop. Went through quite a few before I found two that were fairly straight. The straighter they are, the more parallel the calipers will sit in relation to the rotor. Shimming can help here if req. Built 2 rigs to mount the spindles in while building them up. It made it so much easier.
The spindles were ebay items, and came with the vendor promising they were undamaged. Good threads, no ridges on the race surfaces, and no enlarged ball joint stud holes. They were good. They are all over ebay now.
Steering arms were from a 1969 Impala Drum car. 67-70 Drum arms can be used. Direct bolt up here.
Added the 10LB residual valve in line to the rear brakes (keeps the shoes out at the drum), placed it after the master. Still have rear drums (possibly change to disc next year). You'll need the residual as the Disc/Disc master does not have it built in. I could have just bought a Disc/Drum master but that would have been too easy! Added a SSBC adjustable proportioning valve in line after the residual valve. Mounted it on a bracket that bolts to a booster stud. Made my own lines...and none leaked! Carefully measured, made and dry fitted all the lines and valves before taking it all apart and bench bleeding the master. Got the air out fairly quickly. No real issues here.
Original master was the deep hole style. New master was shallow. Carefully measured, cut and ground the end of the long pushrod to work with the shallow master. Made absolutely certain there was a slight clearance, and that it was not pushing on the piston when the master was bolted up. This is very critical. Any piston pre load may build system pressure and cause the brakes to lock.
Bleeding the system was a snap for the most part. Thinking ahead, I installed Russell speed bleeders in the top two bleed screws on each caliper. Used new DOT3 fluid. Left the proportioning valve full open to the rear when bleeding. The rear drums are working well. Pedal feel is absolutely perfect! The Wilwood D8-4 calipers are sweet. Imop, spend the extra $200, don't bother with the stock iron 4 piston calipers.
The end result was, after gently seating the pads, unreal braking right from the get go! A huge difference! I have not even closed down or adjusted the rear proportioning valve yet. The car stops true and straight with no rear lockup. As most of you know, I'm also now running all global west front arms/struts and a big Addco bar, Edelbrock AIS shocks, so that does play a big role in the tracking under heavy braking. I also have installed a AGR 12.7:1 steering box (AGR 492117), which works perfectly right off the shelf.
Cheers, Mark
Bottom line is, as an upgrade on the 65-70 Canadian B Body, a well thought out, pieced together C3 setup with the Wilwood D8-4's will work fantastic first time. And even better... everything is easily available to make it happen! It's all future upgradable to bigger also, Calipers, rotors, hubs, etc. Although the drums worked reasonably well, stopping confidently and with authority really brings a new modern dimension to the 67.
Funny how small the 11.75" rotors look in a 17" rim.
Gratuitous shot, taken tonight at Casablanca....
-- Edited by cdnpont on Saturday 28th of September 2013 11:58:48 AM
Thanx for the write up.......contemplating this for my 66 Impala.......used to be at Mapleview every Wednesday
back when that was up and running.
Did this setup move the front wheel tread outward?
Will the these rotors work with a 15" Cragar SS?
Car looks great.......and the article is first class
Bernie
Thanks for the positive comments guys!
Yes, 15" Cragars should fit. I at least know a 15" Rally wheel will. If you're thinking about doing a conversion, bring a Cragar over and we'll try it on.
The track width has increased. How much I'm not sure. Perhaps 1/4"? Not a bad thing really imop.
One thing everyone should know about this conversion, is that with some minor machining of the spindle upper bracket boss (the upper drum spring anchor), your drum spindles will work as a base for this build. Use 69-70 for the larger outer bearing. I'm willing to bet that drum hubs will also work. And even the smaller bearing 65-68 could probably be utilized.
very nice - I have a guy to share this with too
Very sanitary set up super nice lines on that car. Looks nasty!
Nice job though.I wanted to use Wilwood as well but it wasn't in the budget at the time.The rears are just as easy to do with minimal fabrication with a functional integral e-brake just like the C3's have/had.
You know, your absolutely right Darren on not having to cut the steering stop. On looking back now, the reason I think I did it was because I followed the early C3 Corvette as a pattern, and they appear to have not have had the stop on their steering arms. When I look at all my images I've saved over the years, the 67-68 Impala does have the stop. Should have followed that as a pattern instead.
So I'll edit the part out about the stops. Makes the conversion all the easier anyway.
Cheers, Mark
Would the conversion you have posted here be the same for a 66 Impala........??
Yes. Same 65-70.
If you do this, I'd now recommend trying a 1" bore master over the 1.25" to increase brake pressure. I feel that it could afford a little more pedal travel, as a trade off for better pressure.
How much money would this require? How many hours of labor? would 800.00 cover it ?
-- Edited by 427carl on Saturday 15th of February 2014 11:25:31 PM
Your right...........the 1" is the way to go...............
Sounds incredible Carl!!!
As far as the cost of my conversion,
C3 Spindles - $125pr
C3 splash shields -$100pr
C3 Caliper brackets - $100pr
C3 Rotors -$120pr
New Bearings/seals -$100
Wilwood calipers - $400
Reman master -$100
Adjustable proportioning valve - $80
Wilwood 10lb residual valve - $40
So it's not at all cheap, but I feel it's better than an aftermarket system, and easier to source parts for.
Thanks for the breakdown not as bad as I had thought I'll get you to drop over and slip some parts on for me
Just say the word Carl!
What's the offset of the front and rear wheels?
Gratuitous shot, taken tonight at Casablanca....
-- Edited by cdnpont on Saturday 28th of September 2013 11:58:48 AM