Today I went under and removed all the remaining bits for the rear end upgrade.
I'd cut the flex line intending to replace it when I let the rear end down. So today I thought I'd try to have a look at what I'm up against, as far as the connection at the frame where the flex line attaches to the hardline.
I removed the clip and pulled the line and fitting backwards out through the frame, and I'm seeing that the flare nut looks to be rusted somewhat. Not too bad, but bad enough that I need to be as careful as I can be. I'd hate to bugger up the hardline, as that would mean I'd have to replace a section, which I'd really hate to do.
I took a small pick and cleaned around the thread to fitting, and where the line goes through the flare nut. Spayed on some PB Blaster.
Is there an absolute tried and true trick to removing a flare nut without completely destroying it and the line? Any witches brew of a penetrant guaranteed to get into the thread?
It might be fine, but I need to be sure. I could let it sit for 2 weeks if need be.
Little propane torch heating the nut may help, I've had success with that. That penetrating oil and also the brake fluid burn pretty nice though too.
Canadian Poncho said
Jul 6, 2014
Some folks swear mixing ATF and acetone will free up any rusted bolt/fitting
67BBSD said
Jul 6, 2014
Its not so much the threads - the flare nut is often seized to the line - I agreed with Carl use a little heat -- but prior to that lots of 'witches brew' stuff can't hurt
4SPEED427 said
Jul 6, 2014
Yes, normally the threads will come loose but you have to be real careful that the nut is turning on the line, not twisting it in to a pretzel as the nut turns.
Pritch said
Jul 6, 2014
I agree with Todd. Mix up a 50/50 brew of ATF with Acetone and let it sit for awile. This concoction should free the nut from the line.
66 Grande guy said
Jul 6, 2014
Make sure you use flare nut wrenches and not just open ends. You can reef a lot with a flare nut wrench without damaging the nuts.
cdnpont said
Jul 7, 2014
Thanks Guys, I'll use the 50/50 ATF Acetone mix.
The plan,
I'll take a wire wheel on a drill and clean it up the best I can first. It does pull out from the frame much further than the picture shows. I'm going to clamp a little metal shelf on below the line. Place a small little magnetic pan underneath the fitting. Wrap a small strip of torn cloth around the fitting and place it into the pan. Hopefully it will wick up to and onto the fitting. Replenish daily. Leave it for a week or so. Dry the outside of the nut off completely, Heat, cool, then give it a try.
And I'm going to buy a better line wrench. I have a set, but they are cheap Chinese crap, and I have buggered even good nuts with them. I might have to resort to a small vice grip, but that wouldn't be too bad provided the nut is free from the line.
Cheers.
4SPEED427 said
Jul 7, 2014
Also, if you are worried about the line wrench, a small vise grip around the line wrench once it's installed helps prevent it from spreading.
seventy2plus2 said
Jul 7, 2014
See if you can borrow a Snap-On line wrench, they're much better quality than even the Craftsman ones I have.
2drpost said
Jul 7, 2014
heat...the thread portion of the hose
DANO65 said
Jul 7, 2014
One of the best way is with heat from a torch, and not just a straight propane torch, doesn't get hot enough. Your have to get that nut red.
For home use I have found the Bernz O Matic Oxygen/MAP gas torch works great. Nice small tip for heating that nut. Pick them up at any hardware store.
when i sailed on the west coast the bosun's used to use this product called break-free and they used to lube up clasp and fastener on the outside of the ship and a day later they would spin off. when i went on vacation up home to ottawa i took a bottle to a friend of mine that was a machinist and he now swears by it. when i transferred to the east coast i found that the weaponeers used it on the guns small to large.
See if you can borrow a Snap-On line wrench, they're much better quality than even the Craftsman ones I have.
Exactly! I found a set of Snap On line (flarenut) wrenches at a pawn shop a while ago and I haven't used my Craftsman set since then.
Ghost Post said
Jul 7, 2014
If you're going without heat, cut the rest of the old brake hose off and try fitting a deep socket instead of a wrench.
Like others said, use a line wrench on the inside line fitting.
If the wrench slips on the line fitting, better than V'Grips is often a pair of Snappy battery pliers making sure to point them the way that grips more as you turn.
Good luck!
~ Pete
cdnpont said
Jul 7, 2014
Deep 6 point socket is a great idea. Thanks for all the hints guys!
My advantage is if I can hold the flare nut tight, I can turn the flex line fitting avoiding twisting of the line. If I can get that far, I can work on freeing the nut from the line.
I like the idea of using the line wrench, in concert with a big vise grip clamping down on the wrench end.
The line is soaking in the 50/50 as we speak. I'll give it a couple of days.
Basically, although this seems like a lot of fuss to avoid a damaged line, I have no interest in using any kind of compression repair fitting. Although it could be possible to cut the line towards the rear of the frame, pull the line down to the ground and perform a McGiver double flare on the ground somehow.
cheers.
4SPEED427 said
Jul 7, 2014
Cutting the hose like you did will increase your odds of saving it greatly.
And as you say, try to save it at all costs, much better than replacing part of the line, and technically a compression fitting fails a safety inspection.
cdnpont said
Jul 26, 2014
Well, all told, sometimes there is no easy way of freeing a flare nut from inside a 47 year old fitting.
I left this fitting wrapped in cloth, soaking in the magic ATF and Acetone for two weeks. Replenished 3 times.
Today, I Sawsalled the rubber line side fitting down to the hex, 6 pt socket on tight. On the flare nut, I used a line wrench with a old school genuine Vice Grip mega clamping down on the wrench jaws... No go. The tiny soft flare nut fitting just spun in the wrench. In fact, after I gave up and spun it off to break the line, for giggles I put the fitting in a vice and super clamped onto the nut with the big Vice Grips. No go. And without heat (which I would not have done in car previous for risk of fire) that was the end of it.
So now what?
Cut the line in a good accessible spot, just as the line comes down over the frame to run down to the front. There are 5 frame clips to bump the line out of. On my car, they all popped out no issue. The more clips you can get out of, the more freedom you have to manipulate the line. Filthy with dirt and oil in the clips, but no real rust.
Droop the main line down, let the fluid drain out onto a rag. Manipulate out the cut rear section. Keep it as true as possible for reference for making the new line.
Make and flare the new rear section. Tape off the ends as to avoid crap from getting in the ends during the install. Fit the section.
And here's the rest,
The McGiver flare rig...
Clamped it to a solid section of the stand, and the blue clamp holds the line tight in the China Auto flare jig (it isn't the best by any means!). All quite solid on the ground actually.
For me, careful squaring and chamfering of the line end, reaming, cleaning, a little oil, good squaring of the die... and not over tightening the final fold over always has resulted in a good flare, regardless of my old crappy jig. But I would surely like one of those new Eastwood rigs.
Nice! And I didn't forget the nut before flaring this time!
A decent repair. Not a nice as a full line, but all round pretty safe I think. No place for a compression fitting here. I kept the old stone guard on the main line, but left it off the new. I was once told by a mechanic that the main cause of rusted lines on these cars was the gravel guard wrap. It held dirt and moisture, and the rest was inevitable. I'm amazed at the condition of this thing underneath. If it wasn't for that one pesky fitting... Oh well!
Looking at the complete line, I actually think I could (if the line would free from the front dist. block) replace it in one piece. But this will do for now.
Nice double flare job Mark, mine always seem to go off center. Thanks for the tech tips and advice on exhaust gaskets (installed thismorning). Went for a cruise up Island today ( about 100 miles) with the family and no more stinky!( My wife says thanks )
cdnpont said
Jul 27, 2014
Glad the gaskets worked out well for you Jim. You'll be happy with them. Did the inserts go in no trouble as I'd mentioned they're delicate?
hawkeye5766 said
Jul 27, 2014
cdnpont wrote:
Glad the gaskets worked out well for you Jim. You'll be happy with them. Did the inserts go in no trouble as I'd mentioned they're delicate?
Was a bit of a B#$%h with my aftermarket power steering box ( only have 1/4" to move ) but did one side yesterday after work and one side this morning, took my time so I wouldn't get frustrated. Don't have anymore burning eyes, but on hard accel up a hill I can still smell a bit of blow by, not from headers at head, I think it might be from breather or header bells( whatever you call it where header meets exhaust pipe). Have an old camcorder I might mount under the hood and go for a drive so I can see whats going on, there is also alot of heat comming through my firewall. Don't want to steel your post so I will post more under my original post. Thx again for all your help Jim
Guys,
Today I went under and removed all the remaining bits for the rear end upgrade.
I'd cut the flex line intending to replace it when I let the rear end down. So today I thought I'd try to have a look at what I'm up against, as far as the connection at the frame where the flex line attaches to the hardline.
I removed the clip and pulled the line and fitting backwards out through the frame, and I'm seeing that the flare nut looks to be rusted somewhat. Not too bad, but bad enough that I need to be as careful as I can be. I'd hate to bugger up the hardline, as that would mean I'd have to replace a section, which I'd really hate to do.
I took a small pick and cleaned around the thread to fitting, and where the line goes through the flare nut. Spayed on some PB Blaster.
Is there an absolute tried and true trick to removing a flare nut without completely destroying it and the line? Any witches brew of a penetrant guaranteed to get into the thread?
It might be fine, but I need to be sure. I could let it sit for 2 weeks if need be.
Any ideas?
Cheers, Mark
Its not so much the threads - the flare nut is often seized to the line - I agreed with Carl use a little heat -- but prior to that lots of 'witches brew' stuff can't hurt
Make sure you use flare nut wrenches and not just open ends. You can reef a lot with a flare nut wrench without damaging the nuts.
Thanks Guys, I'll use the 50/50 ATF Acetone mix.
The plan,
I'll take a wire wheel on a drill and clean it up the best I can first. It does pull out from the frame much further than the picture shows. I'm going to clamp a little metal shelf on below the line. Place a small little magnetic pan underneath the fitting. Wrap a small strip of torn cloth around the fitting and place it into the pan. Hopefully it will wick up to and onto the fitting. Replenish daily. Leave it for a week or so. Dry the outside of the nut off completely, Heat, cool, then give it a try.
And I'm going to buy a better line wrench. I have a set, but they are cheap Chinese crap, and I have buggered even good nuts with them. I might have to resort to a small vice grip, but that wouldn't be too bad provided the nut is free from the line.
Cheers.
See if you can borrow a Snap-On line wrench, they're much better quality than even the Craftsman ones I have.
heat...the thread portion of the hose
One of the best way is with heat from a torch, and not just a straight propane torch, doesn't get hot enough. Your have to get that nut red.
For home use I have found the Bernz O Matic Oxygen/MAP gas torch works great. Nice small tip for heating that nut. Pick them up at any hardware store.
www.break-free.com/products/products_lubricantpreservative.asp
Exactly! I found a set of Snap On line (flarenut) wrenches at a pawn shop a while ago and I haven't used my Craftsman set since then.
If you're going without heat, cut the rest of the old brake hose off and try fitting a deep socket instead of a wrench.
Like others said, use a line wrench on the inside line fitting.
If the wrench slips on the line fitting, better than V'Grips is often a pair of Snappy battery pliers making sure to point them the way that grips more as you turn.
Good luck!
~ Pete
Deep 6 point socket is a great idea. Thanks for all the hints guys!
My advantage is if I can hold the flare nut tight, I can turn the flex line fitting avoiding twisting of the line. If I can get that far, I can work on freeing the nut from the line.
I like the idea of using the line wrench, in concert with a big vise grip clamping down on the wrench end.
The line is soaking in the 50/50 as we speak. I'll give it a couple of days.
Basically, although this seems like a lot of fuss to avoid a damaged line, I have no interest in using any kind of compression repair fitting. Although it could be possible to cut the line towards the rear of the frame, pull the line down to the ground and perform a McGiver double flare on the ground somehow.
cheers.
And as you say, try to save it at all costs, much better than replacing part of the line, and technically a compression fitting fails a safety inspection.
Well, all told, sometimes there is no easy way of freeing a flare nut from inside a 47 year old fitting.
I left this fitting wrapped in cloth, soaking in the magic ATF and Acetone for two weeks. Replenished 3 times.
Today, I Sawsalled the rubber line side fitting down to the hex, 6 pt socket on tight. On the flare nut, I used a line wrench with a old school genuine Vice Grip mega clamping down on the wrench jaws... No go. The tiny soft flare nut fitting just spun in the wrench. In fact, after I gave up and spun it off to break the line, for giggles I put the fitting in a vice and super clamped onto the nut with the big Vice Grips. No go. And without heat (which I would not have done in car previous for risk of fire) that was the end of it.
So now what?
Cut the line in a good accessible spot, just as the line comes down over the frame to run down to the front. There are 5 frame clips to bump the line out of. On my car, they all popped out no issue. The more clips you can get out of, the more freedom you have to manipulate the line. Filthy with dirt and oil in the clips, but no real rust.
Droop the main line down, let the fluid drain out onto a rag. Manipulate out the cut rear section. Keep it as true as possible for reference for making the new line.
Make and flare the new rear section. Tape off the ends as to avoid crap from getting in the ends during the install. Fit the section.
And here's the rest,
The McGiver flare rig...
Clamped it to a solid section of the stand, and the blue clamp holds the line tight in the China Auto flare jig (it isn't the best by any means!). All quite solid on the ground actually.
For me, careful squaring and chamfering of the line end, reaming, cleaning, a little oil, good squaring of the die... and not over tightening the final fold over always has resulted in a good flare, regardless of my old crappy jig. But I would surely like one of those new Eastwood rigs.
Nice! And I didn't forget the nut before flaring this time!
A decent repair. Not a nice as a full line, but all round pretty safe I think. No place for a compression fitting here. I kept the old stone guard on the main line, but left it off the new. I was once told by a mechanic that the main cause of rusted lines on these cars was the gravel guard wrap. It held dirt and moisture, and the rest was inevitable. I'm amazed at the condition of this thing underneath. If it wasn't for that one pesky fitting... Oh well!
Looking at the complete line, I actually think I could (if the line would free from the front dist. block) replace it in one piece. But this will do for now.
Here's the little bugger....
Cheers, Mark
Glad the gaskets worked out well for you Jim. You'll be happy with them. Did the inserts go in no trouble as I'd mentioned they're delicate?
Was a bit of a B#$%h with my aftermarket power steering box ( only have 1/4" to move ) but did one side yesterday after work and one side this morning, took my time so I wouldn't get frustrated. Don't have anymore burning eyes, but on hard accel up a hill I can still smell a bit of blow by, not from headers at head, I think it might be from breather or header bells( whatever you call it where header meets exhaust pipe). Have an old camcorder I might mount under the hood and go for a drive so I can see whats going on, there is also alot of heat comming through my firewall. Don't want to steel your post so I will post more under my original post. Thx again for all your help Jim