Was just looking up some parts on the Moog website
They show an offset shaft kit
Part # MOOG-K6104
Provides additional camber adjustment
Is this something that is necessary??
Or a band aid fix?
Thanks for the help guys
Greg
GLHS60 said
May 12, 2016
Depends on if you have proper camber or not, easy to check with a carpenters level against each front tire.
Often these cars needed the front crossmember "desagged" to achieve correct camber but not many shops do this any more so the kit can help in this case.
The main thing is to have positive caster for stable highway steering but most alignment specs call for very little positive caster, sometimes even negative, on these 1965-1970 B body cars.
Thanks
Randy
SGS Welding said
May 12, 2016
Ok Randy thanks for the reply
That explains why my car eats the outer edges of both front tires.
This kit would likely Be good for me.
SGS Welding said
May 12, 2016
You seem to know these cars inside out!
Your advice always makes sense!!
Thanks again
Greg
GLHS60 said
May 12, 2016
Outer edges might be toe??
If camber hasn't enough adjustment, a camber kit can compensate. Check with a long carpenters level, the tire should essentially stand straight up with the bubble in the middle.
Caster is adjusted by the strut rods, ask JC, his steers wonderful after a high caster home alignment!!!
Thanks Randy
-- Edited by GLHS60 on Thursday 12th of May 2016 08:28:46 PM
GLHS60 said
May 12, 2016
SGS Welding wrote:
You seem to know these cars inside out! Your advice always makes sense!! Thanks again Greg
Appreciate the kind words Greg!!!
Thanks
Randy
seventy2plus2 said
May 12, 2016
I spent the money for the same Moog K6104 kits when I redid the chassis for my 70 Parisienne. I really don't think I needed to though as the camber adjustment is done on the lower control arms, with the large concentrics. I wouldn't bother with the extra money, just clean up the shafts you have and use them.
2drpost said
May 12, 2016
outer edge tire wear is most likely too much toe-in...
GLHS60 said
May 12, 2016
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I spent the money for the same Moog K6104 kits when I redid the chassis for my 70 Parisienne. I really don't think I needed to though as the camber adjustment is done on the lower control arms, with the large concentrics. I wouldn't bother with the extra money, just clean up the shafts you have and use them.
Right you are, camber is normally adjusted by the lower control arm eccentrics. If the crossmember is sagged and there isn't enough adjustment the kit can compensate for this by offsetting the upper arm.
Thanks
Randy
SGS Welding said
May 12, 2016
If a fella stands in front of my car and looks at it head on
The front tires are angled like a v
Hope that makes sense
My cooper Cobras got 6000km and are now down into the gum part of the tire ( there screwed)
Bought Bf Goodrich this time but want this alignment figured out before I put any miles on them
And yes I had an alignment done when the coopers were new but obviously something is not right.
427carl said
May 12, 2016
ask for John Sinclair at Huron Tire in Clinton best alignment man around do not go to Exeter tire shop CLINTON 519-482-3752
SGS Welding said
May 12, 2016
That's good to know!
Thanks Carl
I've always heard Exeter Chrysler was great as well??
Your thoughts?
427carl said
May 12, 2016
SGS Welding wrote:
That's good to know! Thanks Carl I've always heard Exeter Chrysler was great as well?? Your thoughts?
Yes when I was at the tire shop, we sent everything over there
John in Clinton can do a custom alignment to take in considrerations of old car
He did my Strato Chief and my Ventura II and my 66 Grande Parisienne
SGS Welding said
May 13, 2016
Btw the "Carls" always give great advice too!!
Kern said
May 13, 2016
My 67 developed the same issue when the lower ball joints were replaced and required the offset in the upper to correct. I had extreme tire wear, as you do. I have had it looked at 2 reputable "classic car" shops for alignment. It only eats tires every season and a half now. Compared to what it was doing i am fairly happy with it and am only slightly adjusting the toe to try find zero. This problem always has simple answers but it never translated to a easy fix, heh.
GLHS60 said
May 13, 2016
Kern wrote:
My 67 developed the same issue when the lower ball joints were replaced and required the offset in the upper to correct. I had extreme tire wear, as you do. I have had it looked at 2 reputable "classic car" shops for alignment. It only eats tires every season and a half now. Compared to what it was doing i am fairly happy with it and am only slightly adjusting the toe to try find zero. This problem always has simple answers but it never translated to a easy fix, heh.
Your post reminds me of my 1967 Strato Chief that I had a few years ago.
I rebuilt the front end using jobber parts and it aligned perfectly but didn't always steer as expected.
Later when changing front tires the tire guy mentioned my lower ball joints were loose??
I checked them later and they were tight so I mentioned this to an alignment friend.
He confirmed he has seen this issue with jobber ball joints on the 1965-1970 B body cars, sometimes check tight, sometimes not??
Checked mine a few more times and sometimes they were loose, but not always???
His solution was G.M or Moog ball joints so I went with Moog and it was perfect.
These cars do have a goofy front end design but shouldn't wear tires unevenly and should steer perfectly, especially with positive caster.
I'm not sure how a ball joint can be loose then tight but it might be something to consider on your car especially if you had issues after replacing the ball joints.
Well I finally have the car in the alignment shop.
Many problems according to the phonecall I just received.
Sounds fixable with a few new parts.
Sounds like the rear axle is tweaked a little??
Previous owner was hard on the car
Maybe it slid into a ditch hard???
More details when I get them.
SGS Welding said
May 31, 2016
The shop did say my thrust angle was off
He then told me my rear axle was bent
I'm kinda thinking maybe the bushings are worn or a trailing arm might be bent???
They seem to think I should leave it alone and just dial in the front???
Does this make sense??
427carl said
May 31, 2016
SGS Welding wrote:
The shop did say my thrust angle was off He then told me my rear axle was bent I'm kinda thinking maybe the bushings are worn or a trailing arm might be bent??? They seem to think I should leave it alone and just dial in the front??? Does this make sense??
replace the rear bushings that will bring it closer... and find a good alignment shop :(
SGS Welding said
Jun 5, 2016
After the boys at the alignment shop figured out the camber adjustment was done on the frame side of the lower control arm things progressed along very nicely!
Once I picked it up it drove very nice!
SGS Welding said
Jun 9, 2016
More details to follow turns out the alignment was a dismal failure.
Often these cars needed the front crossmember "desagged" to achieve correct camber but not many shops do this any more so the kit can help in this case.
The main thing is to have positive caster for stable highway steering but most alignment specs call for very little positive caster, sometimes even negative, on these 1965-1970 B body cars.
Thanks
Randy
Outer edges might be toe??
If camber hasn't enough adjustment, a camber kit can compensate. Check with a long carpenters level, the tire should essentially stand straight up with the bubble in the middle.
Caster is adjusted by the strut rods, ask JC, his steers wonderful after a high caster home alignment!!!
Thanks
Randy
-- Edited by GLHS60 on Thursday 12th of May 2016 08:28:46 PM
Appreciate the kind words Greg!!!
Thanks
Randy
I spent the money for the same Moog K6104 kits when I redid the chassis for my 70 Parisienne. I really don't think I needed to though as the camber adjustment is done on the lower control arms, with the large concentrics. I wouldn't bother with the extra money, just clean up the shafts you have and use them.
outer edge tire wear is most likely too much toe-in...
Right you are, camber is normally adjusted by the lower control arm eccentrics. If the crossmember is sagged and there isn't enough adjustment the kit can compensate for this by offsetting the upper arm.
Thanks
Randy
ask for John Sinclair at Huron Tire in Clinton best alignment man around do not go to Exeter tire shop CLINTON 519-482-3752
Yes when I was at the tire shop, we sent everything over there
John in Clinton can do a custom alignment to take in considrerations of old car
He did my Strato Chief and my Ventura II and my 66 Grande Parisienne
Your post reminds me of my 1967 Strato Chief that I had a few years ago.
I rebuilt the front end using jobber parts and it aligned perfectly but didn't always steer as expected.
Later when changing front tires the tire guy mentioned my lower ball joints were loose??
I checked them later and they were tight so I mentioned this to an alignment friend.
He confirmed he has seen this issue with jobber ball joints on the 1965-1970 B body cars, sometimes check tight, sometimes not??
Checked mine a few more times and sometimes they were loose, but not always???
His solution was G.M or Moog ball joints so I went with Moog and it was perfect.
These cars do have a goofy front end design but shouldn't wear tires unevenly and should steer perfectly, especially with positive caster.
I'm not sure how a ball joint can be loose then tight but it might be something to consider on your car especially if you had issues after replacing the ball joints.
Thanks
Randy
replace the rear bushings that will bring it closer... and find a good alignment shop :(