After putting in new idler arm bushing in the canso I noticed how much flex there still was in the arm. This caused the tire to too move in and out quite a bit. By pushing on the center link(not that hard) I could see the toe change about 3/8 of an inch. Was thinking,how much does it change the toe with the weight of the car going around a corner? Wanted to make up a bushing when I rememberd Dan(Dano65) worked in the industry,pm'd him and he sent me a chunk of stuff. Don't know what it's called so I hope Dan chimes in and lets us know. So tonight I started in on the project. Measure,lathed and drilled a new bushing out of the material. This is the proceedure. 1st:tore apart an old bushing so I could get the overall lenght of the inner collar on the original bushing,then measured how much bushing protruded out from each side. Measured the press fit side of orig bushing so I could lathe to the right size. Lathe, drill and then polish Idler arm bolt with fine emery cloth to get rid of any nics that may wear new bushing. Pressed new bushing into idler arm and install. This may work for other models that have the same problem. In the vid you can see the steal collar of bushing moving alot while head of bolt is stationary(top left corner). Hope to finish tomorrow.
-- Edited by hawkeye5766 on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 12:33:33 AM
-- Edited by hawkeye5766 on Wednesday 14th of September 2016 12:38:23 AM
Wow you didn't waste any time at all diving into this project. The material is Nylatron GS, it's nylon 6/6 with Molybdenum disulphide as a lubricant in the nylon.
If it's giving you any issues machining, here's a link to the mfg's page on machining guidelines
-- Edited by DANO65 on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 09:31:24 AM
hawkeye5766 said
Sep 13, 2016
Well got her finished off tonight and then took the car for a goood test drive. No bump steer in corners even when hitting a dip. Drove from Sooke to Sheringham Point(bumpy/windy). Will make up one more for a guy I know. No... not u Doug,your putting in a rack and last time I checked they don't use one. Thanks again Dan!
Wow you didn't waste any time at all diving into this project. The material is Nylatron GS, it's nylon 6/6 with Molybdenum disulphide as a lubricant in the nylon.
If it's giving you any issues machining, here's a link to the mfg's page on machining guidelines
Would NylatronGS be better than Teflon? My Dad used to get Teflon bushings made for certain applications and they worked great.
DANO65 said
Sep 14, 2016
Looks good there Jim. Glad it worked and that I could help.
Darryl, true Teflon isn't the greatest for a high stress bushing like this, it's a little soft. It's best suited for high heat or strong chemical or when you really don't want something to stick. Most white "plastics" end up getting called Teflon. A common one is UHMW Polyethylene, poor man's Teflon, great for high abrasion applications where speed and load are low to moderate, and cheap too, about 1/10 the cost of Teflon. Makes great sled runners.
Well that's our plastic lesson for today
GLHS60 said
Sep 15, 2016
Not a very good picture Jim, but its of a 1962-1967 Nova/Acadian drag link I had made years ago.
Eliminates bump steer from normal suspension movement while driving.
Easy to see the "wonky wheel" issue these cars have with no Engine or when the suspension travels. (blue car)
Places the inner tie rods even with the lower control pivot point.
Thanks
Randy
-- Edited by GLHS60 on Thursday 15th of September 2016 06:42:21 PM
I remember when you posted this a year or so back Randy. Great mod. My front end is about an 1"-1 1/2 lower than stock. This put my tierods about 5 deg upwards from the drag link to spindle. Not sure if that helps in bumpsteer,but I can fly around a bumpy corner or hit a dip in the road without the car wanting to dart off the road and the steering wheel is smooth and steady. I remember when I had the 4dr on the road last year and it wanted to walk/wonder all over. Wonder if there was a drag link on any other car with the tierod that close to the pitman?
GLHS60 said
Sep 16, 2016
You only get bump steer when the suspension moves up and down, so the stiffer the better.
If you jack the car up, and let the wheels hang down, you will see how much bump steer there is, if any, by how much the the toe in changes.
Last century I was driving my 1966 4 dr Nova beater, beside a nice 2 dr Nova, admiring the styling, and noticed as the other car gently rose and settled during normal driving, his toe in was continually changing, in and out. BINGO!!
I put some really stiff front springs in my junker 4 dr and couldn't believe the difference.
Bone jarring and teeth rattling stiffness but no more bump steer.
1968 Buick full size has the closest drag link I could find, but it needs to be narrowed.
One local chassis builder was licensed to weld steering linkage so he cut and welded it up shorter.
My idea was to put a sleeve over the cut but he pencil pointed the 2 halves and welded it up.
It went on my friends 1962 Acadian and later on his 1967 Canso in the picture.
With stock springs they both rode nice and steered like a dream!!
To control bump steer, first thing is, the inner tie rod pivot point has to be in line with the lower control arm pivot point.
Its amazing these cars were so far out, same basic design as early Mustangs, but their pivot points are much closer.
Thanks
Randy
GLHS60 said
Sep 16, 2016
For reference here is a shot of an early Mustang, Falcon suspension.
Inner tie rod pivot is in line with the lower control arm pivot point.
After putting in new idler arm bushing in the canso I noticed how much flex there still was in the arm. This caused the tire to too move in and out quite a bit. By pushing on the center link(not that hard) I could see the toe change about 3/8 of an inch. Was thinking,how much does it change the toe with the weight of the car going around a corner? Wanted to make up a bushing when I rememberd Dan(Dano65) worked in the industry,pm'd him and he sent me a chunk of stuff. Don't know what it's called so I hope Dan chimes in and lets us know. So tonight I started in on the project. Measure,lathed and drilled a new bushing out of the material. This is the proceedure. 1st:tore apart an old bushing so I could get the overall lenght of the inner collar on the original bushing,then measured how much bushing protruded out from each side. Measured the press fit side of orig bushing so I could lathe to the right size. Lathe, drill and then polish Idler arm bolt with fine emery cloth to get rid of any nics that may wear new bushing. Pressed new bushing into idler arm and install. This may work for other models that have the same problem. In the vid you can see the steal collar of bushing moving alot while head of bolt is stationary(top left corner). Hope to finish tomorrow.
-- Edited by hawkeye5766 on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 12:33:33 AM
-- Edited by hawkeye5766 on Wednesday 14th of September 2016 12:38:23 AM
Wow you didn't waste any time at all diving into this project.
The material is Nylatron GS, it's nylon 6/6 with Molybdenum disulphide as a lubricant in the nylon.
If it's giving you any issues machining, here's a link to the mfg's page on machining guidelines
http://www.quadrantplastics.com/na-en/support/machining-information/machinists-toolkit.html
-- Edited by DANO65 on Tuesday 13th of September 2016 09:31:24 AM
Well got her finished off tonight and then took the car for a goood test drive. No bump steer in corners even when hitting a dip. Drove from Sooke to Sheringham Point(bumpy/windy). Will make up one more for a guy I know.
No... not u Doug,your putting in a rack and last time I checked they don't use one. Thanks again Dan!
Would NylatronGS be better than Teflon? My Dad used to get Teflon bushings made for certain applications and they worked great.
Looks good there Jim. Glad it worked and that I could help.
Darryl, true Teflon isn't the greatest for a high stress bushing like this, it's a little soft. It's best suited for high heat or strong chemical or when you really don't want something to stick. Most white "plastics" end up getting called Teflon. A common one is UHMW Polyethylene, poor man's Teflon, great for high abrasion applications where speed and load are low to moderate, and cheap too, about 1/10 the cost of Teflon. Makes great sled runners.
Well that's our plastic lesson for today
Not a very good picture Jim, but its of a 1962-1967 Nova/Acadian drag link I had made years ago.
Eliminates bump steer from normal suspension movement while driving.
Easy to see the "wonky wheel" issue these cars have with no Engine or when the suspension travels. (blue car)
Places the inner tie rods even with the lower control pivot point.
Thanks
Randy
-- Edited by GLHS60 on Thursday 15th of September 2016 06:42:21 PM
If you jack the car up, and let the wheels hang down, you will see how much bump steer there is, if any, by how much the the toe in changes.
Last century I was driving my 1966 4 dr Nova beater, beside a nice 2 dr Nova, admiring the styling, and noticed as the other car gently rose and settled during normal driving, his toe in was continually changing, in and out. BINGO!!
I put some really stiff front springs in my junker 4 dr and couldn't believe the difference.
Bone jarring and teeth rattling stiffness but no more bump steer.
1968 Buick full size has the closest drag link I could find, but it needs to be narrowed.
One local chassis builder was licensed to weld steering linkage so he cut and welded it up shorter.
My idea was to put a sleeve over the cut but he pencil pointed the 2 halves and welded it up.
It went on my friends 1962 Acadian and later on his 1967 Canso in the picture.
With stock springs they both rode nice and steered like a dream!!
To control bump steer, first thing is, the inner tie rod pivot point has to be in line with the lower control arm pivot point.
Its amazing these cars were so far out, same basic design as early Mustangs, but their pivot points are much closer.
Thanks
Randy
For reference here is a shot of an early Mustang, Falcon suspension.
Inner tie rod pivot is in line with the lower control arm pivot point.
Thanks
Randy