I have been researching a bit on upgrading my steering box to a 12.7 to 1 ratio for quicker handling responses on the 68 Grande. From what I find is that everyone that upgrades the box comments on the upgrade as being positive. My box is not leaking but it is the standard S Saginaw box with a 6 on it, four bolt mount. I would like to keep the box as it is original to the car but was wondering if anyone was aware if there were any rebuilders in Winnipeg or Canada for that matter who could upgrade the gear ratio?
You can buy them aplenty online, but I thought I might give it a shot first to see if I could get the box rebuilt here in Manitoba or Canada. I figure it might be best to upgrade the box, upgrade my front brakes to disc (I have a C3 system in the basement) and either replace my control arms or replace the bushings all at the same time next spring. Anyways, if anyone has any suggestions, it would be appreciated!
Jake
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Thursday 25th of October 2018 08:06:17 AM
4SPEED427 said
Oct 25, 2018
The only one I can think of who might is Westrans. But I doubt they would know about changing ratio. Can you buy the parts online to do it? If so, maybe they would do it if you take them the parts.
68 Grande said
Oct 25, 2018
Somewhere you must be able to purchase the parts online, but I haven't really looked into that yet. There are so many boxes out there and the price is highly variable from AGR boxes to you name it. I called Autoline and they do not rebuild them. I thought it might be worth a shot to try and keep my box but we will see.
In South Wpg, where there are round abouts, I end up almost punching myself as my hands are moving so quickly trying to steer the beast. I need one of those spinners to mount on the steering wheel too spin the wheel to go around the round about and then exit. Plus, sometimes just driving, the car wanders a bit so a quicker ratio seems to be the trick according to the research I have done.
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Thursday 25th of October 2018 08:53:49 AM
Survivor said
Oct 25, 2018
A good friend of mine owns Brake and Steering rebuilders here in London. If you cant find anyone locally you can give Gord a call +1 (519) 453-1012. He may be able to ship?
cdnpont said
Oct 25, 2018
I don't know, but I bet getting your original box rebuilt (if you can even get a ratio change locally) is going to be close in price to a reman AGR.
But for the lack of one ear, the standard quick AGR box looks pretty close to stock anyway. I suppose you could use the old cap if you wanted that little serial to be the same.
AGR on the left,
I've been happy with mine anyway. Cheers and good luck.
68 Grande said
Oct 25, 2018
cdnpont wrote:
I don't know, but I bet getting your original box rebuilt (if you can even get a ratio change locally) is going to be close in price to a reman AGR.
But for the lack of one ear, the standard quick AGR box looks pretty close to stock anyway. I suppose you could use the old cap if you wanted that little serial to be the same.
AGR on the left,
I've been happy with mine anyway. Cheers and good luck.
I suspect I will end up purchasing a reman quick ratio box at some point and the original Saginaw box will end up in a box in the corner of the garage along with the front drums and spindles, GM cast iron intake, original water pump, Harrison rad, etc, etc.
65wagon said
Oct 25, 2018
I left my original power box in , and yes its slow, I did upgrade with urethane bushings all the way around, that was the biggest improvement . the energy suspension kit also come in black so it blends in, stabilizer in the back and enjoy.
65Camino said
Oct 25, 2018
Look for a Monte Carlo SS box. Dorman 31011 ragjoint.
12.7 to 1 and firm.
65wagon said
Oct 25, 2018
does that use metric anything or is it still sandard
seventy2plus2 said
Oct 25, 2018
The fellow I sold the 70 454 Laurentian to upgraded it from manual to power steering. While I sold him most of the stuff to do it, he had to source the steering box. I don't know why, but he was chasing a 3 tab box, which it took him a while to find. The box I put in the 70 Parisienne when I redid the chassis was a 4 tab, and works perfectly fine. From what I can see in Mark's photo, the front box is a 3 tab, the back box a 4 tab.
I also redid the steering, suspension & brakes on my 70 2+2 rag, and again used a 4 tab box. Works perfectly fine.
68 Grande said
Oct 26, 2018
I took the plunge and ordered a 12.7 ratio box in a Saginaw "6" casted four bolt box that has been rebuilt to 12.7 ( 3 1/8 turn to lock). Fingers crossed that the product ends up being OK but the seller appears to have good rating. While I was looking at my steering box to get a date code, I noticed my upper control arms bushings are worn out very badly. I will try and snap a pic and post but I was surprised how bad they are. The rubber bushing hole where the shaft goes through is now elongated and the rubber is also being squished out the side so there is no doubt that control arm bushings are toast.
So, it will be a good time to address the control arm bushings, the box and upgrade to discs all at the same time. Now, the decision of going to a tubular control arm or just replace the bushings. My wallet is telling me to replace bushings only while I also have a hankering for tubular control arms. BTW, there appears to be quite the number of control arms that appear to be knock off Global West arms being offered by Jegs, or POL (Performance Online) that are significantly reduced in price, like half the price, that seem to be available. Not sure of the quality but the Jegs and POL look identical and POL told me they were knock off GW arms. Also, it looks like you can get an Alden coil over for about $468 US.
cdnpont said
Oct 26, 2018
Those POL upper arms look very good. When you buy anything Global West, I think today you're paying extra for the name. The POL parts look the same, and the bushings are Delrin as well. GW calls there bushing Del A Lum.
If you're going in, do it all one time. Upper/Lower arms, and spherical joint Strut rods, hybrid coilovers. The Aldan's looks good as well. Good price but single adjustable only. Do they have a spherical bushing in the bottom? And I see no mention of a torrington bearing on the collar. Both are an absolute must. A bushing on the bottom bar is taxing on the coilover body, and no bearing between the collar and spring makes for a tough time adjusting.
Or just replace the bushings lol!
65wagon said
Oct 26, 2018
I know they look nice and have a whole bunch of adjustment in them , and I was tempted myself but I couldn't justify the cost, sandblasting and urethane seemed to have cured the wagons ills , the front strut rods are usually the worst offenders for wondering and under steer . if the uppers are gone all the bushing are not far behind, and after twenty plus years on my car not a squeak .
cdnpont said
Oct 26, 2018
I replaced my upper arm bushings with oem early on, and within a year they were looking poor. And these were Moog parts.
65wagon said
Oct 26, 2018
rubber quality sucks today, and I hate dewing anything more than once, we converted to cars to urethane , my 65 and a buddies 64, the handling went from mushy scary ,to early nineties Camaro, you could actually steer these things with your throttle. The next step was the brakes and box.
seventy2plus2 said
Oct 26, 2018
If I recall, I used a rebuilt Cardone 27-6537 box when I did my 70 convertible last year.
I have been researching a bit on upgrading my steering box to a 12.7 to 1 ratio for quicker handling responses on the 68 Grande. From what I find is that everyone that upgrades the box comments on the upgrade as being positive. My box is not leaking but it is the standard S Saginaw box with a 6 on it, four bolt mount. I would like to keep the box as it is original to the car but was wondering if anyone was aware if there were any rebuilders in Winnipeg or Canada for that matter who could upgrade the gear ratio?
You can buy them aplenty online, but I thought I might give it a shot first to see if I could get the box rebuilt here in Manitoba or Canada. I figure it might be best to upgrade the box, upgrade my front brakes to disc (I have a C3 system in the basement) and either replace my control arms or replace the bushings all at the same time next spring. Anyways, if anyone has any suggestions, it would be appreciated!
Jake
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Thursday 25th of October 2018 08:06:17 AM
Somewhere you must be able to purchase the parts online, but I haven't really looked into that yet. There are so many boxes out there and the price is highly variable from AGR boxes to you name it. I called Autoline and they do not rebuild them. I thought it might be worth a shot to try and keep my box but we will see.
In South Wpg, where there are round abouts, I end up almost punching myself as my hands are moving so quickly trying to steer the beast. I need one of those spinners to mount on the steering wheel too spin the wheel to go around the round about and then exit. Plus, sometimes just driving, the car wanders a bit so a quicker ratio seems to be the trick according to the research I have done.
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Thursday 25th of October 2018 08:53:49 AM
A good friend of mine owns Brake and Steering rebuilders here in London. If you cant find anyone locally you can give Gord a call +1 (519) 453-1012. He may be able to ship?
I don't know, but I bet getting your original box rebuilt (if you can even get a ratio change locally) is going to be close in price to a reman AGR.
But for the lack of one ear, the standard quick AGR box looks pretty close to stock anyway. I suppose you could use the old cap if you wanted that little serial to be the same.
AGR on the left,
I've been happy with mine anyway. Cheers and good luck.
I suspect I will end up purchasing a reman quick ratio box at some point and the original Saginaw box will end up in a box in the corner of the garage along with the front drums and spindles, GM cast iron intake, original water pump, Harrison rad, etc, etc.
I left my original power box in , and yes its slow, I did upgrade with urethane bushings all the way around, that was the biggest improvement . the energy suspension kit also come in black so it blends in, stabilizer in the back and enjoy.
12.7 to 1 and firm.
does that use metric anything or is it still sandard
I also redid the steering, suspension & brakes on my 70 2+2 rag, and again used a 4 tab box. Works perfectly fine.
So, it will be a good time to address the control arm bushings, the box and upgrade to discs all at the same time. Now, the decision of going to a tubular control arm or just replace the bushings. My wallet is telling me to replace bushings only while I also have a hankering for tubular control arms. BTW, there appears to be quite the number of control arms that appear to be knock off Global West arms being offered by Jegs, or POL (Performance Online) that are significantly reduced in price, like half the price, that seem to be available. Not sure of the quality but the Jegs and POL look identical and POL told me they were knock off GW arms. Also, it looks like you can get an Alden coil over for about $468 US.
Those POL upper arms look very good. When you buy anything Global West, I think today you're paying extra for the name. The POL parts look the same, and the bushings are Delrin as well. GW calls there bushing Del A Lum.
If you're going in, do it all one time. Upper/Lower arms, and spherical joint Strut rods, hybrid coilovers. The Aldan's looks good as well. Good price but single adjustable only. Do they have a spherical bushing in the bottom? And I see no mention of a torrington bearing on the collar. Both are an absolute must. A bushing on the bottom bar is taxing on the coilover body, and no bearing between the collar and spring makes for a tough time adjusting.
Or just replace the bushings lol!
I know they look nice and have a whole bunch of adjustment in them , and I was tempted myself but I couldn't justify the cost, sandblasting and urethane seemed to have cured the wagons ills , the front strut rods are usually the worst offenders for wondering and under steer . if the uppers are gone all the bushing are not far behind, and after twenty plus years on my car not a squeak .
I replaced my upper arm bushings with oem early on, and within a year they were looking poor. And these were Moog parts.
rubber quality sucks today, and I hate dewing anything more than once, we converted to cars to urethane , my 65 and a buddies 64, the handling went from mushy scary ,to early nineties Camaro, you could actually steer these things with your throttle. The next step was the brakes and box.