A while back I noticed the inside of both front tires wearing after only 3000 miles on them, and also noticed the upper control arm bushings were looking pretty nasty. I've had a set of NOS bushings sitting around here since long before I got this car and once I saw that I knew where their home would be.
Today was the day. I don't know that I've ever done upper bushings before on a B body. Looking at the job it looked like it would be pretty easy and it is. I'm not quite done the second side but I took some pictures of the first side I did in case anyone here is planning to do their 65-70 B body and doesn't know what to expect. I lifted it up, pulled the wheel and put blocks under the the brake drum to support it. Some guys will say this warps the drum. I guess we'll see. I've supported the front suspension before this way without an issue but if you're not comfortable this way you can figure a way to support it under the lower control arm. Once this is supported, pull the cotter pin on the upper ball joint, remove the nut on the ball joint and then lift it up so there's about an inch gap under the drum. Separate the ball joint from the steering knuckle, (splitter, pounding on the knuckle loop or whatever method you prefer) and the assembly will drop down that 1" gap you left under it. Remove the two upper control arm nuts and bolts and remove the arm/ball joint assembly.
These bushings are clearly old and need replaced.
To replace them, I found 2 short pieces of pipe that had an I.D. correct so that one pipe nicely fit on the flange on the outside where I want to push to press it in, and the other once had the correct I.D. to support the control arm on the inside but let the bushing pass through the opening. The inside pipe is not visible in this picture but shows in the second picture. The first bushing can be installed using the vice but the second one can't because the shaft has to be placed in it's spot before pressing in the second bushing.
I forgot to take a picture of installing the second bushing. I used the same piece of black pipe on the outside and cut a 2X4 block the right size for the inside of the arm to friction fit between the 2 ears of the control arm where the 2 bushings press in so that the arm doesn't get collapsed pushing the second bushing in.
Once the second bushing was installed, I noticed I had a bad gap at each end. It looked like the bushings weren't in all the way, or the arm had spread.
I knew it couldn't be either of those, so I simply installed the bolts and washers on each end and the gaps completely disappeared.
I wanted to mention the tools I used for the upper 2 bolts. I found an offset box 5/8" for the bolt head and a ratcheting 11/16" for the nut worked really well. The bolt head especially has a bit of a difficult access.
I'm not quite done the second side, the ball joint is fighting me, not wanting to go back into the knuckle loop. I would have kept at it but I suffer from back spasms periodically and that's exactly what started to happen so I called it a day.
I realize for many of you here this is not exactly an earth shattering "how-to" thread but many people here do very little of this type of work because they are intimidated by it and those are the ones I'm hoping to encourage with this.
I guess I never took a picture of bushing removal. I did that with an air hammer.
66 ponchoboy said
Dec 23, 2019
Very informative for me as I am changing my upper control arm shaft with ones that have an offset. I was told that my big block weight had pulled inwards the frame and therefore couldn't get a proper wheel alignment. These offset shafts push the control arm? back out to allow an alignment with out having to straighten the car frame. If anyone has good or bad information on these offset shaft please let me know. I am also wondering how to rough in shims(if I have to) so that I can drive the car to the alignment shop when finished. Thanks for the above procedure and photos.
cdnpont said
Dec 23, 2019
Good job Carl! I've actually used the threaded hole in the shaft with a long bolt with spacers to pull the first bushing out. Then the shaft comes out. Second one comes out in a vise with ease without the shaft in place
Be sure you don't tighten the shaft endbolts until the car is on the ground at ride height.
gparis7 said
Dec 23, 2019
As you say the main thing is to put something like a pipe or piece of steel stock between the two bushing ears to ensure the control arm doesn't collapse.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 23, 2019
cdnpont wrote:
Be sure you don't tighten the shaft endbolts until the car is on the ground at ride height.
Thanks for adding that Mark. I meant to mention it but forgot. Yes, very important!
4SPEED427 said
Dec 23, 2019
66 ponchoboy wrote:
I was told that my big block weight had pulled inwards the frame and therefore couldn't get a proper wheel alignment.
Those rotten big blocks, why would anyone want one....
When you have it back together adjust it so the wheel is perfectly straight up and down, or if anything, leaning out at the top just a hair and that will be fine to get it to the shop for an alignment.
seventy2plus2 said
Dec 23, 2019
66 ponchoboy wrote:
Very informative for me as I am changing my upper control arm shaft with ones that have an offset. I was told that my big block weight had pulled inwards the frame and therefore couldn't get a proper wheel alignment. These offset shafts push the control arm? back out to allow an alignment with out having to straighten the car frame. If anyone has good or bad information on these offset shaft please let me know. I am also wondering how to rough in shims(if I have to) so that I can drive the car to the alignment shop when finished. Thanks for the above procedure and photos.
I used the offset shafts on my 70 454 speed car. I found aren't necessary as there is so much camber adjustment with the camber bolts on the lower control arms.
My 70 2+2 454 car has the standard straight shafts.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 23, 2019
So far I've never had to use an offset upper shaft to get an alignment and I've had a number of big block B bodies.
Ponchoboy, is your front end guy familiar with our cars? He knows that the caster can be altered with the adjustable lower arm as Clint mentioned?
I assume there must be times the lower adjustment is not enough though because the aftermarket wouldn't offer an offset arm if it wasn't required sometimes.
66 ponchoboy said
Dec 23, 2019
Hi I didn't know about the lower camber bolts. I got the information about the frame from a tire shop that I don't think does many alignments. I'll try a better shop in red deer. The car is 1966 Grande Parisienne and it was raced for a while in the eighties I believe, which might have led to more frame bending..
4SPEED427 said
Dec 23, 2019
Is this the red Grande Parisienne? I forget.
oshawacliff said
Dec 23, 2019
Tell them no shims in the upper control arms. That is not the way to do an alignment on these cars.
The lower control arms use a cam design for alignment adjustment
-- Edited by oshawacliff on Monday 23rd of December 2019 04:49:57 PM
cdnpont said
Dec 23, 2019
A little outside your bushing topic Carl, but for anyone interested, these are the numbers was able to achieve when aligning my 67. They work excellent. But mind you it did take some aftermarket parts to get the big caster.
Carl, here's how I pressed the new bushings on to the upper A-arms that are now in my 2+2 convertible:
I've made all the spacers that are required to remove and install the bushings on all of the front & rear control arms. You can see the spacers painted grey in the above photo.
Hi I didn't know about the lower camber bolts. I got the information about the frame from a tire shop that I don't think does many alignments. I'll try a better shop in red deer. The car is 1966 Grande Parisienne and it was raced for a while in the eighties I believe, which might have led to more frame bending..
I'm familiar with your car and it's it's history from the late 70's to the early 90's. No, it was not raced in the 80's. It's 427 was extracted and put in the 65 Acadian (July 2018 feature car) and replaced with a 454 which it had when you got the car.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 27, 2019
Almost done, just need to put the wheels back on, let it down and then tighten up the bolts on the upper shafts. While I was in there I replaced the front shocks (sadly...........the original 53 year old shocks were starting to leak). That was painful removing parts I knew are original. Oh well, it's gotta happen.
I also installed the F41 suspension front sway bar, which is 15/16" diameter vs 13/16" on the standard bar. The F41 rear bar will likely go on when I get around to installing the posi and likely new rear shocks at the same time.
cdnpont said
Dec 27, 2019
Pictures. Or it didn't happen.
4SPEED427 said
Dec 28, 2019
I knew someone would say that....... ok, I'll go take a couple of pictures..................sigh....................
4SPEED427 said
Dec 28, 2019
For all you originality guys, the original shocks. I was just on the phone with 2qwik2c (Andrew) and I was telling him that my spiral shocks are black, not gray like you see on all the "correct" cars. It appears that maybe the Canadian cars in 66 at least had black spiral shocks. I can safely say these shocks were installed on the assembly line. The are dated 6 E 8 (May 8 1966) and my car was built a couple of weeks later. I learned something today, gray is not correct! For anyone who cares, the part number on both shocks is 3171083.
I painted the F41 sway bar way back when (cast iron gray paint) and now I wish I wouldn't have. It looks out of place. I am pretty much leaving the car looking as original as I can and the bar looks out of place. I also learned today when I changed the bar that F41 sway bar bushing brackets are not the same bracket as the F40 bushing (my car was built with F40).
The neat thing is, the Delco shocks I installed are black, so they are the same colour as originals, just no spiral.
Just took the original spirals off the rear of the 1965 beaumont wagon. They are grey.
any 64-65 canadian car i have had, used grey or light seafoam green original spiral shocks
4SPEED427 said
Dec 28, 2019
If it weren't for these having a date code about two weeks prior to my car build I wouldn't have believed they were originals either. Very interesting actually... does anyone else have a 66 with original shocks on it still? I'd love to know what colour they are.
SGS Welding said
Dec 28, 2019
Carl can you elaborate and hopefully show pics of the difference
between f41 and f40 bushing brackets??
I figured they were the exact same only difference being the actual rubber bushing
had a bigger hole in the middle for the bigger bar?
Greg
4SPEED427 said
Dec 28, 2019
I will try to do that in the next couple of days hopefully. I've been flat out on the couch all day today, woke up with some sort of bug. I had hoped to work on my car today...
Pontiacanada said
Dec 29, 2019
beaumontguru wrote:
Any 64-65 canadian car i have had, used grey or light seafoam green original spiral shocks
A while back I noticed the inside of both front tires wearing after only 3000 miles on them, and also noticed the upper control arm bushings were looking pretty nasty. I've had a set of NOS bushings sitting around here since long before I got this car and once I saw that I knew where their home would be.
Today was the day. I don't know that I've ever done upper bushings before on a B body. Looking at the job it looked like it would be pretty easy and it is. I'm not quite done the second side but I took some pictures of the first side I did in case anyone here is planning to do their 65-70 B body and doesn't know what to expect. I lifted it up, pulled the wheel and put blocks under the the brake drum to support it. Some guys will say this warps the drum. I guess we'll see. I've supported the front suspension before this way without an issue but if you're not comfortable this way you can figure a way to support it under the lower control arm. Once this is supported, pull the cotter pin on the upper ball joint, remove the nut on the ball joint and then lift it up so there's about an inch gap under the drum. Separate the ball joint from the steering knuckle, (splitter, pounding on the knuckle loop or whatever method you prefer) and the assembly will drop down that 1" gap you left under it. Remove the two upper control arm nuts and bolts and remove the arm/ball joint assembly.
These bushings are clearly old and need replaced.
To replace them, I found 2 short pieces of pipe that had an I.D. correct so that one pipe nicely fit on the flange on the outside where I want to push to press it in, and the other once had the correct I.D. to support the control arm on the inside but let the bushing pass through the opening. The inside pipe is not visible in this picture but shows in the second picture. The first bushing can be installed using the vice but the second one can't because the shaft has to be placed in it's spot before pressing in the second bushing.
I forgot to take a picture of installing the second bushing. I used the same piece of black pipe on the outside and cut a 2X4 block the right size for the inside of the arm to friction fit between the 2 ears of the control arm where the 2 bushings press in so that the arm doesn't get collapsed pushing the second bushing in.
Once the second bushing was installed, I noticed I had a bad gap at each end. It looked like the bushings weren't in all the way, or the arm had spread.
I knew it couldn't be either of those, so I simply installed the bolts and washers on each end and the gaps completely disappeared.
I wanted to mention the tools I used for the upper 2 bolts. I found an offset box 5/8" for the bolt head and a ratcheting 11/16" for the nut worked really well. The bolt head especially has a bit of a difficult access.
I'm not quite done the second side, the ball joint is fighting me, not wanting to go back into the knuckle loop. I would have kept at it but I suffer from back spasms periodically and that's exactly what started to happen so I called it a day.
I realize for many of you here this is not exactly an earth shattering "how-to" thread but many people here do very little of this type of work because they are intimidated by it and those are the ones I'm hoping to encourage with this.
Good job Carl! I've actually used the threaded hole in the shaft with a long bolt with spacers to pull the first bushing out. Then the shaft comes out. Second one comes out in a vise with ease without the shaft in place
Be sure you don't tighten the shaft endbolts until the car is on the ground at ride height.
As you say the main thing is to put something like a pipe or piece of steel stock between the two bushing ears to ensure the control arm doesn't collapse.
Thanks for adding that Mark. I meant to mention it but forgot. Yes, very important!
Those rotten big blocks, why would anyone want one....
When you have it back together adjust it so the wheel is perfectly straight up and down, or if anything, leaning out at the top just a hair and that will be fine to get it to the shop for an alignment.
I used the offset shafts on my 70 454 speed car. I found aren't necessary as there is so much camber adjustment with the camber bolts on the lower control arms.
My 70 2+2 454 car has the standard straight shafts.
Ponchoboy, is your front end guy familiar with our cars? He knows that the caster can be altered with the adjustable lower arm as Clint mentioned?
I assume there must be times the lower adjustment is not enough though because the aftermarket wouldn't offer an offset arm if it wasn't required sometimes.
Is this the red Grande Parisienne? I forget.
Tell them no shims in the upper control arms. That is not the way to do an alignment on these cars.
The lower control arms use a cam design for alignment adjustment
-- Edited by oshawacliff on Monday 23rd of December 2019 04:49:57 PM
A little outside your bushing topic Carl, but for anyone interested, these are the numbers was able to achieve when aligning my 67. They work excellent. But mind you it did take some aftermarket parts to get the big caster.
From the top, Caster, Camber, Toe,
Carl, here's how I pressed the new bushings on to the upper A-arms that are now in my 2+2 convertible:
I've made all the spacers that are required to remove and install the bushings on all of the front & rear control arms. You can see the spacers painted grey in the above photo.
I'm familiar with your car and it's it's history from the late 70's to the early 90's. No, it was not raced in the 80's. It's 427 was extracted and put in the 65 Acadian (July 2018 feature car) and replaced with a 454 which it had when you got the car.
I also installed the F41 suspension front sway bar, which is 15/16" diameter vs 13/16" on the standard bar. The F41 rear bar will likely go on when I get around to installing the posi and likely new rear shocks at the same time.
Pictures. Or it didn't happen.
For all you originality guys, the original shocks. I was just on the phone with 2qwik2c (Andrew) and I was telling him that my spiral shocks are black, not gray like you see on all the "correct" cars. It appears that maybe the Canadian cars in 66 at least had black spiral shocks. I can safely say these shocks were installed on the assembly line. The are dated 6 E 8 (May 8 1966) and my car was built a couple of weeks later. I learned something today, gray is not correct! For anyone who cares, the part number on both shocks is 3171083.
I painted the F41 sway bar way back when (cast iron gray paint) and now I wish I wouldn't have. It looks out of place. I am pretty much leaving the car looking as original as I can and the bar looks out of place. I also learned today when I changed the bar that F41 sway bar bushing brackets are not the same bracket as the F40 bushing (my car was built with F40).
The neat thing is, the Delco shocks I installed are black, so they are the same colour as originals, just no spiral.
There ya go Mark, is that better now???
Just took the original spirals off the rear of the 1965 beaumont wagon. They are grey.
any 64-65 canadian car i have had, used grey or light seafoam green original spiral shocks
If it weren't for these having a date code about two weeks prior to my car build I wouldn't have believed they were originals either. Very interesting actually... does anyone else have a 66 with original shocks on it still? I'd love to know what colour they are.
Carl can you elaborate and hopefully show pics of the difference
between f41 and f40 bushing brackets??
I figured they were the exact same only difference being the actual rubber bushing
had a bigger hole in the middle for the bigger bar?
Greg
I will try to do that in the next couple of days hopefully. I've been flat out on the couch all day today, woke up with some sort of bug. I had hoped to work on my car today...
Mine are light greenish.