I recently replaced the windshield washer pump on the 68 Grande and I thought it was working properly. However, yesterday I was caught driving in a serious downpour, first time the Grande had been exposed to water in 4 years and I turned on the tiny little windshield wipers to clear the windshield.
Soon, I realize that the washer is squirting fluid,..... but I had not pushed the washer switch "in" to activate to pump. I turned off the windshield wipers and the pumps stops pumping but when I turn on the wipers, the wipers activate but so does the washer pump and it is squirting fluid like there is no tomorrow.
So, I am wondering what's going on with this? I have not tried to diagnose a potential issue yet however I was hoping someone on the forum might have some suggestions of where to start. Bad switch inside? Any opinions on what to start looking for?
68 Grande said
Sep 20, 2020
Just an update and hopefully someone can add something on these mysterious mechanical cam/electric washer pumps.
I have taken this washer pump on and off about 50 times and still have the same issue in that when I turn on the wipers, the cam engages the new washer pump and it squirts fluid. I tested the switch and my switch appears to be good and but I can't figure this thing out.
Is there a timing procedure for the new washer pump in relation to the motor? I don't have a service manual for the Grande but was hoping someone that might have a service manual for a similar year might be able to look up a washer install procedure, if there is some sort of procedure. The reason I am asking if there is a timing procedure as I found a Buick thread on washer pump installation that suggested this. But, who knows. AArgghh
oshawacliff said
Sep 20, 2020
Here is a video about the washer pump and diagnosing the motor.
check about the 12 minute mark for the washer pump part.
-- Edited by oshawacliff on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:11:23 PM
seventy2plus2 said
Sep 20, 2020
I'm thinking you're getting power to the pump before you're supposed to, and it's engaging the relay.
68 Grande said
Sep 20, 2020
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'm thinking you're getting power to the pump before you're supposed to, and it's engaging the relay.
I think your assumption is correct and after watching the video that Cliff posted, I am sure that is the issue. But, the questions is why? I think I might have to go through the testing process outlined in the video, but the wiper will work on high and low speed with out the pump being mounted, but when you mount the pump, it starts to squirt.
Ironically, in another video posted by the same guy, that made the above video, he became frustrated and made a video of how to mount an electric pump in place of the mechanical pump for the same car. I am thinking if I can't solve this, I might end up doing such a mod. (Next year)
But, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to post!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 05:09:08 PM
seventy2plus2 said
Sep 20, 2020
68 Grande wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'm thinking you're getting power to the pump before you're supposed to, and it's engaging the relay.
I think your assumption is correct and after watching the video that Cliff posted, I am sure that is the issue. But, the questions is why? I think I might have to go through the testing process outlined in the video, but the wiper will work on high and low speed with out the pump being mounted, but when you mount the pump, it starts to squirt.
Ironically, in another video posted by the same guy, that made the above video, he became frustrated and made a video of how to mount an electric pump in place of the mechanical pump for the same car. I am thinking if I can't solve this, I might end up doing such a mod. (Next year)
But, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to post!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 05:09:08 PM
With the wipers on you shouldn't have any voltage on the wires to the pump. I haven't had one of the pumps apart in quite a while, but I do remember a solenoid in there that needs to be energized so it catches the drive from the wiper motor.
68 Grande said
Sep 20, 2020
seventy2plus2 wrote:
68 Grande wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'm thinking you're getting power to the pump before you're supposed to, and it's engaging the relay.
I think your assumption is correct and after watching the video that Cliff posted, I am sure that is the issue. But, the questions is why? I think I might have to go through the testing process outlined in the video, but the wiper will work on high and low speed with out the pump being mounted, but when you mount the pump, it starts to squirt.
Ironically, in another video posted by the same guy, that made the above video, he became frustrated and made a video of how to mount an electric pump in place of the mechanical pump for the same car. I am thinking if I can't solve this, I might end up doing such a mod. (Next year)
But, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to post!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 05:09:08 PM
With the wipers on you shouldn't have any voltage on the wires to the pump. I haven't had one of the pumps apart in quite a while, but I do remember a solenoid in there that needs to be energized so it catches the drive from the wiper motor.
I will check this out tomorrow and see if there is some voltage to the pump with the wipers on. I think one pump wire might have juice with the wipers on but will confirm this tomorrow. Thx for the suggestion.
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 07:55:16 PM
68 Grande said
Sep 21, 2020
An update on the washer pump.
The video link that Cliff posted above is a worthwhile video to testing a wiper motor / washer system and gives good descriptions on the wiring. Good enough that I can deduce that all my electrical and switch are working properly and it's the replacement pump mechanical internals are not working properly.
The black wheel in the center will not come back to a position where it locks the the plunger open as when its open, it doesn't get engaged by the cam on the inside (other side) of this contraption. The black wheel has cogs on it that turn the wheel and then it should finish up as locking the plunger in an open position, by these mechanical cogs. So, the wheel just stops short of where it should finish up. But, if I give it some help with my fingers, it will click over one or two more cogs and lock the plunger open and stop engaging the pump.
So, this replacement USA made Ebay washer pump is not working properly. Quite the mechanical complexity as well in terms of just needing a simple pump to pump washer fluids.
I rebuilt a spare pump a couple years ago for my 72 GMC Sierra but haven't mustered up the energy to install it as it's up under the dash.
68 Grande said
Sep 21, 2020
I see Rock Auto offers both the electric / mechanical and all electric "cam-less" replacement washer pumps.
The cam-less version is made to look like the original and I do not beleive that these were available when I purchased this one six months ago.
I don't actually need to use a washer pump when I am driving around, but I want to have a fully operational vehicle and in Manitoba, if your car is equipped with a washer, it needs to work in order to pass the MPI safety.
So, I think I am going to remedy the situation with an electric unit.
68 Grande said
Sep 28, 2020
Problem solved! I ordered an electric version and all seems to operate normally,....sort of.... It works, but when you press the washer button, it keeps squirting until you switch the wipers off, which then resets the pump circuit to off. You can turn the wipers back on and the pump won't pump until you push the washer button, but keeps pumping until you switch off the wipers.
Anyways, I am tired out on this thing and for all intents and purposes, I am declaring it functional!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Monday 28th of September 2020 11:15:48 AM
I recently replaced the windshield washer pump on the 68 Grande and I thought it was working properly. However, yesterday I was caught driving in a serious downpour, first time the Grande had been exposed to water in 4 years and I turned on the tiny little windshield wipers to clear the windshield.
Soon, I realize that the washer is squirting fluid,..... but I had not pushed the washer switch "in" to activate to pump. I turned off the windshield wipers and the pumps stops pumping but when I turn on the wipers, the wipers activate but so does the washer pump and it is squirting fluid like there is no tomorrow.
So, I am wondering what's going on with this? I have not tried to diagnose a potential issue yet however I was hoping someone on the forum might have some suggestions of where to start. Bad switch inside? Any opinions on what to start looking for?
I have taken this washer pump on and off about 50 times and still have the same issue in that when I turn on the wipers, the cam engages the new washer pump and it squirts fluid. I tested the switch and my switch appears to be good and but I can't figure this thing out.
Is there a timing procedure for the new washer pump in relation to the motor? I don't have a service manual for the Grande but was hoping someone that might have a service manual for a similar year might be able to look up a washer install procedure, if there is some sort of procedure. The reason I am asking if there is a timing procedure as I found a Buick thread on washer pump installation that suggested this. But, who knows. AArgghh
Here is a video about the washer pump and diagnosing the motor.
check about the 12 minute mark for the washer pump part.
Might help??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfINKpsW2Vo
-- Edited by oshawacliff on Sunday 20th of September 2020 03:11:23 PM
I think your assumption is correct and after watching the video that Cliff posted, I am sure that is the issue. But, the questions is why? I think I might have to go through the testing process outlined in the video, but the wiper will work on high and low speed with out the pump being mounted, but when you mount the pump, it starts to squirt.
Ironically, in another video posted by the same guy, that made the above video, he became frustrated and made a video of how to mount an electric pump in place of the mechanical pump for the same car. I am thinking if I can't solve this, I might end up doing such a mod. (Next year)
But, if you have any other suggestions, feel free to post!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 05:09:08 PM
With the wipers on you shouldn't have any voltage on the wires to the pump. I haven't had one of the pumps apart in quite a while, but I do remember a solenoid in there that needs to be energized so it catches the drive from the wiper motor.
I will check this out tomorrow and see if there is some voltage to the pump with the wipers on. I think one pump wire might have juice with the wipers on but will confirm this tomorrow. Thx for the suggestion.
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Sunday 20th of September 2020 07:55:16 PM
An update on the washer pump.
The video link that Cliff posted above is a worthwhile video to testing a wiper motor / washer system and gives good descriptions on the wiring. Good enough that I can deduce that all my electrical and switch are working properly and it's the replacement pump mechanical internals are not working properly.
The black wheel in the center will not come back to a position where it locks the the plunger open as when its open, it doesn't get engaged by the cam on the inside (other side) of this contraption. The black wheel has cogs on it that turn the wheel and then it should finish up as locking the plunger in an open position, by these mechanical cogs. So, the wheel just stops short of where it should finish up. But, if I give it some help with my fingers, it will click over one or two more cogs and lock the plunger open and stop engaging the pump.
So, this replacement USA made Ebay washer pump is not working properly. Quite the mechanical complexity as well in terms of just needing a simple pump to pump washer fluids.
The cam-less version is made to look like the original and I do not beleive that these were available when I purchased this one six months ago.
I don't actually need to use a washer pump when I am driving around, but I want to have a fully operational vehicle and in Manitoba, if your car is equipped with a washer, it needs to work in order to pass the MPI safety.
So, I think I am going to remedy the situation with an electric unit.
Problem solved! I ordered an electric version and all seems to operate normally,....sort of.... It works, but when you press the washer button, it keeps squirting until you switch the wipers off, which then resets the pump circuit to off. You can turn the wipers back on and the pump won't pump until you push the washer button, but keeps pumping until you switch off the wipers.
Anyways, I am tired out on this thing and for all intents and purposes, I am declaring it functional!
-- Edited by 68 Grande on Monday 28th of September 2020 11:15:48 AM
Looks like the washer assembly you used was just like the one I have on my 65 pump Jake.
Just a common part. I've read that guys are using a relay with them to stop it from running. To change the polarity?
I still don't know why they have a circuit board inside them.