I am at a loss and cannot figure this one out. I have recently refreshed a 283 for the convertible I am restoring and went to bolt on the starter and the bolts do not line up. from what I have researched and from what I have experienced there is two main starters that fit sbc. There are the 168 and 153 tooth ones with parallel and off set bolt Patterns. The centre to centre holes measures 2 3/4 inch on this block and the starter measures 3 1/4 inch centre to centre. Maybe do I need to change the flex plate and use an off set starter in stead.
lets see a photo of your starter. Something tells me you're supposed to be using the offset hole above the dumb end of the tape.
ROSIES CAR said
Jan 16, 2021
Arent off set starters used for 168 tooth flex plates. I have a starter with the in line holes with a 3 1/4 spacing my 327 has the same spacing I have asked a couple buddys to check theirs and they are all 3 1/4 spacing the diagonal spacing is correct. Maybe there is an off set starter that belongs on this block.
-- Edited by ROSIES CAR on Saturday 16th of January 2021 02:52:11 PM
Beaumont4008 said
Jan 16, 2021
Just measured a 67 chevelle 283 i have on the stand and its 3-1/4 . Starters I have laying around are are 3-1/4 also.
Ian
DonSSDD said
Jan 16, 2021
No 168 tooth 283s after 1962, at least not in full size. There are different noses for starters I think.
-- Edited by DonSSDD on Saturday 16th of January 2021 03:47:45 PM
ROSIES CAR said
Jan 16, 2021
Here are a couple more pictures
Will a 168 tooth flex plate fit in a power glide transmission
You are trying to fit a 153 tooth flexplate, a starter with one long, one short bolt straight across bolt pattern to a 283?
ROSIES CAR said
Jan 16, 2021
Every starter that I have ever put on a 283 or 327 has been near identical to this (see picture) and the bolt separation has always been 3 1/16 c-c its the starter that is mated to a 153 tooth flex plate and the block has the same hole separation as the starter. This block has 2 13/16 inch between them.
I am wondering if thats an older block that was a staggered bolt pattern only for 168 tooth flywheel and some one drilled and taped that inboard hole for a mini starter . It seems to be not countersunk like the other holes. Just a thought. If you use the 168 tooth flywheel you will also need a different bellhousing. (correction on the bellhousing was thinking of a standard trany not automatic )
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Sunday 17th of January 2021 02:09:23 PM
seventy2plus2 said
Jan 16, 2021
That's the weirdest vernier caliper I've ever seen.
ABC123 said
Jan 16, 2021
Is this what you guys are talking about ?
The bolt holes will be parallel to the crankshaft if your car uses a 153 -tooth flywheel/flexplate, and the bolt holes will be offset for 168-tooth flywheel/flexplate.
-- Edited by ABC123 on Saturday 16th of January 2021 06:12:31 PM
seventy2plus2 said
Jan 16, 2021
ABC123 wrote:
Is this what you guys are talking about ?
The bolt holes will be parallel to the crankshaft if your car uses a 153 -tooth flywheel/flexplate, and the bolt holes will be offset for 168-tooth flywheel/flexplate.
-- Edited by ABC123 on Saturday 16th of January 2021 06:12:31 PM
Yes, but it seems his 283 block has the holes parallel to the crankshaft somewhat closer together. Possibly for a mini-starter as they have a selection of holes.
4SPEED427 said
Jan 16, 2021
Beaumont4008 wrote:
I am wondering if thats an older block that was a staggered bolt pattern only for 168 tooth flywheel and some one drilled and taped that inboard hole for a mini starter . It seems to be not countersunk like the other holes. Just a thought. If you use the 168 tooth flywheel you will also need a different bellhousing.
I guess I haven't worked on an old enough block. I didn't realize there are blocks that are made for only the 168 tooth. Even the 396/427/454's which always have the 168 tooth have the hole drilled and tapped for a 283 style starter. When I pulled the 194 out of my 65 Acadian years back, I removed the starter and flywheel, bolted it on to the 427 and put it in the car with the original Powerglide. I just always assumed all the Chevy V8's had both sets of holes.
seventy2plus2 said
Jan 16, 2021
And yet another snout was the cast iron one I used on my 454 168 tooth flywheel & 4 speed transmission.
The shout has the diagonal holes, but the bolts were medium length. Longer than the short bolt used in the straight application, but shorter than the long bolt used in the straight & angled applications. The shop that rebuilt my starter had the snout, and they needed to source the bolts from GM.
ROSIES CAR said
Jan 16, 2021
Yes, from a little bit of research and input from others its a 61-64 283 most likely originally had a 168 staggered bolt pattern. And like Beaumont 4008 has said it looks as though a third hole has been added, possibly for a mini starter.
I did take a 168 tooth flex plate and fasten it to the torque converter on the aluminum power glide I have, it fits but there is about an eighth of an inch clearance all around and my inspection cover will not clear. Did the early cast powerglides have larger bell housings.
I think my only solution is to drill and tap a new correct hole to accommodate the 153 tooth starter.
Beaumont4008 said
Jan 16, 2021
ROSIES CAR wrote:
Yes, from a little bit of research and input from others its a 61-64 283 most likely originally had a 168 staggered bolt pattern. And like Beaumont 4008 has said it looks as though a third hole has been added, possibly for a mini starter.
I did take a 168 tooth flex plate and fasten it to the torque converter on the aluminum power glide I have, it fits but there is about an eighth of an inch clearance all around and my inspection cover will not clear. Did the early cast powerglides have larger bell housings.
I think my only solution is to drill and tap a new correct hole to accommodate the 153 tooth starter.
Ya just bolt on the starter using the outside bolt and pull out the drive gear to make sure it mesh correctly with flywheel and use the inboard hole on starter to mark for second hole. Its been done with motor in car before should be a lot easier with motor on stand. There is youtube videos with guys doing it with mini starters.
Ian
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Saturday 16th of January 2021 07:40:35 PM
Brian said
Jan 16, 2021
If you look up Delco Remy 1108338 starter you will see that most of them have the correct bolt pattern The housing is also cast and not aluminum with the three bolt holes.
-- Edited by Brian on Saturday 16th of January 2021 10:11:48 PM
153 tooth flywheels/flexplates didnt exist before 63, one possible exception was 62s with a powerglide, which had the first aluminum powerglides. I dont know what size they had.
Prior to the 153s, their were only 168s and they all had bellhousing mounted starters, the only powerglides were cast iron and they had a spacer between the block and transmission, the starter mounted to the spacer.
As far as I know, All small blocks starting in 63 had the 153, 348/409 and later big blocks only had a 168. Im not an expert of any kind on this stuff later than say 64, if you know of exceptions to what I just said, feel free to post.
You can bolt a 168 and matching bellhousing or automatic transmission to any small block, but then you need to deal with the starter alignment and bolting issues. I like to use the 168 for manual transmissions and the old bellhousing with the starter mount, no bolting or alignment issues. IMHO, just throw out all automatic transmissions.
beaumontguru said
Jan 17, 2021
Im a bit late to the party
but Don is pretty much right, your block must be a 1962 or older, they all used the larger flywheel and that different looking cast iron starter nose. i have a 62 impala block with this same situation, just use the staggered starter and a larger flywheel it works fine. BUT TEST FIT YOUR CONVERTER TO MAKE SURE THE HOLES LINE UP WITH THE FLEXPLATE FIRST.
4SPEED427 said
Jan 17, 2021
So when you do that does it have to be the staggered starter with the cast iron nose or does the staggered bolt aluminum nose fit ok? I've never tried but I'm told the staggered aluminum nose won't fit the manual trans setups with an aluminum bellhousing.
beaumontguru said
Jan 17, 2021
Not too sure on that, but i think when i ran up my 62 283 on the test stand i used a regular aluminum staggered bolt starter and the larger flywheel and it all worked.
no bell housing installed tho. That motor was a cast glide car originally.
4SPEED427 said
Jan 17, 2021
Yeah, I think the bellhousing interferes with the nose from what I've been told.
Prefectca said
Jan 17, 2021
I ran into this years ago on a 60 chev. We installed an aluminum powerglide and the couldnt put a starter on it. We ended up using a 168 tooth flywheel and a starter for a 60 Chev with a turboglide transmission. The turboglide used a cast iron nose on the starter. This was back in the 70s, and a rebuild shop that I used had a starter nose in stock. And yes the powerglide converter cover wouldnt fit.
I am at a loss and cannot figure this one out. I have recently refreshed a 283 for the convertible I am restoring and went to bolt on the starter and the bolts do not line up. from what I have researched and from what I have experienced there is two main starters that fit sbc. There are the 168 and 153 tooth ones with parallel and off set bolt Patterns. The centre to centre holes measures 2 3/4 inch on this block and the starter measures 3 1/4 inch centre to centre. Maybe do I need to change the flex plate and use an off set starter in stead.
Arent off set starters used for 168 tooth flex plates. I have a starter with the in line holes with a 3 1/4 spacing my 327 has the same spacing I have asked a couple buddys to check theirs and they are all 3 1/4 spacing the diagonal spacing is correct. Maybe there is an off set starter that belongs on this block.
-- Edited by ROSIES CAR on Saturday 16th of January 2021 02:52:11 PM
Just measured a 67 chevelle 283 i have on the stand and its 3-1/4 . Starters I have laying around are are 3-1/4 also.
Ian
No 168 tooth 283s after 1962, at least not in full size. There are different noses for starters I think.
-- Edited by DonSSDD on Saturday 16th of January 2021 03:47:45 PM
Here are a couple more pictures
Will a 168 tooth flex plate fit in a power glide transmission
You are trying to fit a 153 tooth flexplate, a starter with one long, one short bolt straight across bolt pattern to a 283?
Every starter that I have ever put on a 283 or 327 has been near identical to this (see picture) and the bolt separation has always been 3 1/16 c-c its the starter that is mated to a 153 tooth flex plate and the block has the same hole separation as the starter. This block has 2 13/16 inch between them.
I am wondering if thats an older block that was a staggered bolt pattern only for 168 tooth flywheel and some one drilled and taped that inboard hole for a mini starter . It seems to be not countersunk like the other holes. Just a thought. If you use the 168 tooth flywheel you will also need a different bellhousing. (correction on the bellhousing was thinking of a standard trany not automatic )
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Sunday 17th of January 2021 02:09:23 PM
Is this what you guys are talking about ?
The bolt holes will be parallel to the crankshaft if your car uses a 153 -tooth flywheel/flexplate, and the bolt holes will be offset for 168-tooth flywheel/flexplate.
Chevy Starter Fitment Is Not A One Size Fits All Situation (chevyhardcore.com)
-- Edited by ABC123 on Saturday 16th of January 2021 06:12:31 PM
Yes, but it seems his 283 block has the holes parallel to the crankshaft somewhat closer together. Possibly for a mini-starter as they have a selection of holes.
I guess I haven't worked on an old enough block. I didn't realize there are blocks that are made for only the 168 tooth. Even the 396/427/454's which always have the 168 tooth have the hole drilled and tapped for a 283 style starter. When I pulled the 194 out of my 65 Acadian years back, I removed the starter and flywheel, bolted it on to the 427 and put it in the car with the original Powerglide. I just always assumed all the Chevy V8's had both sets of holes.
The shout has the diagonal holes, but the bolts were medium length. Longer than the short bolt used in the straight application, but shorter than the long bolt used in the straight & angled applications. The shop that rebuilt my starter had the snout, and they needed to source the bolts from GM.
I did take a 168 tooth flex plate and fasten it to the torque converter on the aluminum power glide I have, it fits but there is about an eighth of an inch clearance all around and my inspection cover will not clear. Did the early cast powerglides have larger bell housings.
I think my only solution is to drill and tap a new correct hole to accommodate the 153 tooth starter.
Ya just bolt on the starter using the outside bolt and pull out the drive gear to make sure it mesh correctly with flywheel and use the inboard hole on starter to mark for second hole. Its been done with motor in car before should be a lot easier with motor on stand. There is youtube videos with guys doing it with mini starters.
Ian
-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Saturday 16th of January 2021 07:40:35 PM
If you look up Delco Remy 1108338 starter you will see that most of them have the correct bolt pattern
The housing is also cast and not aluminum with the three bolt holes.
-- Edited by Brian on Saturday 16th of January 2021 10:11:48 PM
Prior to the 153s, their were only 168s and they all had bellhousing mounted starters, the only powerglides were cast iron and they had a spacer between the block and transmission, the starter mounted to the spacer.
As far as I know, All small blocks starting in 63 had the 153, 348/409 and later big blocks only had a 168. Im not an expert of any kind on this stuff later than say 64, if you know of exceptions to what I just said, feel free to post.
You can bolt a 168 and matching bellhousing or automatic transmission to any small block, but then you need to deal with the starter alignment and bolting issues. I like to use the 168 for manual transmissions and the old bellhousing with the starter mount, no bolting or alignment issues. IMHO, just throw out all automatic transmissions.
Im a bit late to the party
but Don is pretty much right, your block must be a 1962 or older, they all used the larger flywheel and that different looking cast iron starter nose. i have a 62 impala block with this same situation, just use the staggered starter and a larger flywheel it works fine. BUT TEST FIT YOUR CONVERTER TO MAKE SURE THE HOLES LINE UP WITH THE FLEXPLATE FIRST.
Not too sure on that, but i think when i ran up my 62 283 on the test stand i used a regular aluminum staggered bolt starter and the larger flywheel and it all worked.
no bell housing installed tho. That motor was a cast glide car originally.
Yeah, I think the bellhousing interferes with the nose from what I've been told.
Paul