A minor resto and replacement on the 65's rear lamps, along with adding some LED's.
cdnpont said
Mar 7, 2021
So over the last 3 years, I've collected up some better tailamp and bezel parts for the 65. As a bonus, the car came with left and right NOS lenses, and a complete right assembly. I have one fairly nice bezel, and two other complete assemblies that are far better than what is in there now. I also have a full width one piece rear bezel and trim, a-la Catalina.
I figure I'll combine up the best I have, add the better harness in (thanks Bill), and add LED's. To be honest, the rear lighting on the 65 isn't the best, so brightening it all up only make it safer imop. Not to mention, LED's really bring the current draw way down.
Although I'm doing this for the most part just for fun, when I get the left assembly out, I'll take some shots of it, and then you'll know why I endeavor to do this.
Always interesting to me is the fact we actually made car parts in Canada, what was Venco?
In the absence of some good pliable body to lamp molded seals, what would you use? Some type of butyl cord? Everything seals I have is just on the edge of being junk. You can see it on the upper lamp. Anybody have a good pair? I didn't think so, lol!
The picture fibs, the lights aren't so good in this form.
Always interesting to me is the fact we actually made car parts in Canada, what was Venco?
Interesting. There seems to be a few companies that use Venco in their name - one manufactures ventilation system parts, and another looks like it makes cranes or hoists?
Regarding car parts made in Canada, there are still a number of companies that do this. With the modern just-in-time manufacturing philosophy, it actually is beneficial for a supplier to set up a small factory (or in some cases a supply depot, I believe) near the assembly plant to facilitate this. Or so I've heard...
cdnpont said
Mar 8, 2021
Canadian Pontiac's actually have quite a bit of Canadian made parts in them. I'm sure all of us have seen that over the years in taking them apart.
And sometimes it's really surprising what is.
cdnpont said
Mar 8, 2021
Removing the left rear lamp;
So first, here's a exploded view of the 65 lamp from the CP master parts Cat. What I have as far as (4) the lamp housing, and (8) the lamp gasket are nothing like this. Was there two versions?
Removed the quarter extension first. Backed out the 4 studs (#5 in the illustration) from the chrome bezel using the double nut method, then I got lucky as the housing was so rusted it basically twisted out from behind the bezel after first busting the lens in half and removing it. The big center trim section had to be loosened and pulled back, but really should have come out. Removing it requires both lamps to be loose from the body, I only had one done.
I'm really thinking the bumper might have to come down to do this. We'll see if I can get the right lamp out first. I'm not exactly confident it will come out without the bumper.
Anyhow, check out this beaut below, water and dirt must have poured into the housing over the years it sat outside and destroyed it. So much water at some point, somebody drilled 4 holes in the lens along the bottom, I'm assuming to drain it. They then went on to do a brutally cheesy diy panel, screwed into what remained of the housing. Then fitted 2 of the crappiest lamp sockets (and the wiring rats nest) into that panel. Why? Just find another light already. The things people will do to avoid time making it right, when it probably took the same time to do this. To be fair, at least the last owner had some plans to fix it.
The one funny thing...the main gasket is still soft and looks usable. Go figure.
From the 65 Manual. To remove and replace the lamps,
It states to drop the rear bumper to remove and replace the bezels.
I suppose you could remove the bolt at the license plate, loosen all the horn bolts, and remove the two most rearward and it should pull back and pivot down? I'll try it today.
Took advantage of the good weather Randy sent us, and yes, the bumper had do come down (or at least be loosened) to pull the center panel and the other lamp. Bolts came right out which is nice. Took the bumper right off anyway.
Pulled out the trunk weatherstrip while cleaning up the back panel, which exposed another issue I knew was there. See new post.
Not in the works yet Todd. The thought is, but the funds aren't.
If and when the time comes, I'll at least an expert at taking everything off the car again.
cdnpont said
Mar 16, 2021
About a year ago I picked up some better lamp bezels and a center panel. All the diecast on the 65 was as bad as you'd ever see. I have to say, some of those western wrecking yard 65's in pictures here are enough to make me weep.
In a step to making ALL the rear diecast look better, I just spent the better part of the afternoon and eve preparing the center panel for paint. The panel isn't the best, but it's overall better than what was on there. I'd call it a 20 footer. I scrubbed it with dish soap and hot water in the shower to get all the wax out of the grooves and pits. Then knocked down any flash from the pits in those grooves. Took a brass wire wheel in a drill and removed all the paint in the grooves, and buffed into the letters. Washed it again in the shower with a final spray with brake cleaner.
Then spent 2 hours masking off everything I want to keep chrome. Used good 3M masking tape. Crazy job, every rib was masked and the tape cut away. But the detail focus was actually very satisfying. I was so proud of my masking job I just had to include it in this thread lol! Sorry if you find me crazy.
I'll spray it Matt black tomorrow. And remember, if you ever happen come across some really nice 65 rear diecast, "Pontiac" script, keep me in mind. This stuff is not easy to find in nice shape.
jmont64 said
Mar 17, 2021
Impressive Mark. I think one good thing for lots of us is as we age we have a little more patience for stuff like this.
hawkeye5766 said
Mar 17, 2021
jmont64 wrote:
Impressive Mark. I think one good thing for lots of us is as we age we have a little more patience for stuff like this.
I just need to figure out how to wind down...not up! Good thread Mark..you notice how one thing always leads to another......
cdnpont said
Mar 17, 2021
Painted. Still needs some black and white in the letters. I'm ok with the result. Not the best, but it'll suit the car.
Original and the replacement,
SGS Welding said
Mar 17, 2021
Another trick for masking is to use pinstripe tape
for the delicate edges normal tape for the in between parts.
Hope that makes sense
pinstriping can be had from Canadian Tire still as far as I know.
love following along Mark!
looks like a fun car!
cdnpont said
Mar 17, 2021
All this mundane stuff is keeping me happy and occupied Greg. And the car has been a fun and satisfying project. Just at the point of being in good enough shape not to make it a chore.
Pinstripe tape would have been quicker and better, but this worked ok. The key was good tape and a couple of throwaway small boxcutters from Dollarama to cut the tape. Keep breaking them off for a good edge. The chrome pits are hard on the blade edge.
cdnpont said
Mar 18, 2021
Painted the letters. White Tremclad sprayed into a cap is thin enough to flow in using a fine brush. 2 coats.
Then when dry, cleaned up the edges of the letters with a fine electronics cotton swab, just dampened with paint thinner.
The white makes the letters pop.
4SPEED427 said
Mar 18, 2021
And here I thought you'd just be reclining on the couch all day digesting that big breakfast and recovering from your time with that turkey from Oakville....
cdnpont said
Mar 18, 2021
This was a perfect job for after the breakfast special (Sausage, Bacon, Ham, 3 eggs, hash browns, 4 slices of toast, 4 coffees).
I could do it sitting down. Ooof.
4SPEED427 said
Mar 18, 2021
cdnpont wrote:
This was a perfect job for after the breakfast special (Sausage, Bacon, Ham, 3 eggs, hash browns, 4 slices of toast, 4 coffees).
I could do it sitting down. Ooof.
I hope that's what the 3 of you shared!
65 SD L79 said
Mar 19, 2021
4SPEED427 wrote:
cdnpont wrote:
This was a perfect job for after the breakfast special (Sausage, Bacon, Ham, 3 eggs, hash browns, 4 slices of toast, 4 coffees).
I could do it sitting down. Ooof.
I hope that's what the 3 of you shared!
each booth there comes with its own defibrillator
cdnpont said
Mar 19, 2021
Cleaned up, masked off and painted the black areas on the bezels.
Picked out the two best lamp buckets, cleaned them up, spray painted them aluminum on the outside, and Dupli-color "Chrome" on the inside.
Cleaned off the 56 year old adhesive off the lens gaskets, no idea what it is (was), but it's a sticky mess and took an hour. No solvent can touch it. One gasket was NOS which was nice, the other was still pliable.
Bolted it all together with the NOS lenses. I'm happy.
Rewired the lights using a reworked 64 harness Bill (a41cat) gave me (you can see it in the first picture). Bonus is in 64 they used actual high quality metal lamp sockets. In 65 they went to plastic. The sockets are exactly the same, the wiring a little longer but the plate connector is in the same spot.
Added a new Weatherpack 4 pin connector from the body to tailamp harness.
The photo doesn't do it justice, but the nos lenses are crisp and clear, the lamps nice and bright. Stayed with the 1157 incandescents as I don't think LED's are really appropriate for the rear after all.
As they were, one could have kept things bandaged up and the lights would still have worked, but now I have the piece of mind knowing there should be no issues here in the future,
So over the last 3 years, I've collected up some better tailamp and bezel parts for the 65. As a bonus, the car came with left and right NOS lenses, and a complete right assembly. I have one fairly nice bezel, and two other complete assemblies that are far better than what is in there now. I also have a full width one piece rear bezel and trim, a-la Catalina.
I figure I'll combine up the best I have, add the better harness in (thanks Bill), and add LED's. To be honest, the rear lighting on the 65 isn't the best, so brightening it all up only make it safer imop. Not to mention, LED's really bring the current draw way down.
Although I'm doing this for the most part just for fun, when I get the left assembly out, I'll take some shots of it, and then you'll know why I endeavor to do this.
Always interesting to me is the fact we actually made car parts in Canada, what was Venco?
In the absence of some good pliable body to lamp molded seals, what would you use? Some type of butyl cord? Everything seals I have is just on the edge of being junk. You can see it on the upper lamp. Anybody have a good pair? I didn't think so, lol!
The picture fibs, the lights aren't so good in this form.
Can't wait to see what's next.
Interesting. There seems to be a few companies that use Venco in their name - one manufactures ventilation system parts, and another looks like it makes cranes or hoists?
Then there's this one that manufactures plastic and rubber parts: https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.venco_products_ltd.2376cd3027a7d2a0f60268bc2acc5dfc.html. Don't know if it has lineage to the company that made your housing, though.
Regarding car parts made in Canada, there are still a number of companies that do this. With the modern just-in-time manufacturing philosophy, it actually is beneficial for a supplier to set up a small factory (or in some cases a supply depot, I believe) near the assembly plant to facilitate this. Or so I've heard...
Canadian Pontiac's actually have quite a bit of Canadian made parts in them. I'm sure all of us have seen that over the years in taking them apart.
And sometimes it's really surprising what is.
Removing the left rear lamp;
So first, here's a exploded view of the 65 lamp from the CP master parts Cat. What I have as far as (4) the lamp housing, and (8) the lamp gasket are nothing like this. Was there two versions?
Removed the quarter extension first. Backed out the 4 studs (#5 in the illustration) from the chrome bezel using the double nut method, then I got lucky as the housing was so rusted it basically twisted out from behind the bezel after first busting the lens in half and removing it. The big center trim section had to be loosened and pulled back, but really should have come out. Removing it requires both lamps to be loose from the body, I only had one done.
I'm really thinking the bumper might have to come down to do this. We'll see if I can get the right lamp out first. I'm not exactly confident it will come out without the bumper.
Anyhow, check out this beaut below, water and dirt must have poured into the housing over the years it sat outside and destroyed it. So much water at some point, somebody drilled 4 holes in the lens along the bottom, I'm assuming to drain it. They then went on to do a brutally cheesy diy panel, screwed into what remained of the housing. Then fitted 2 of the crappiest lamp sockets (and the wiring rats nest) into that panel. Why? Just find another light already. The things people will do to avoid time making it right, when it probably took the same time to do this. To be fair, at least the last owner had some plans to fix it.
The one funny thing...the main gasket is still soft and looks usable. Go figure.
Drain holes,
From the 65 Manual. To remove and replace the lamps,
It states to drop the rear bumper to remove and replace the bezels.
I suppose you could remove the bolt at the license plate, loosen all the horn bolts, and remove the two most rearward and it should pull back and pivot down? I'll try it today.
Great day for it !
Don't forget to put on the sunblock
9 Mar
13°C
Mainly sunny
1°C
Clear
10 Mar
16°C
30%
Chance of showers
9°C
Cloudy
11 Mar
18°C
70%
Chance of showers
0°C
Rain
12 Mar
10°C
Sunny
-3°C
Cloudy periods
13 Mar
1°C
A mix of sun and cloud
-6°C
Cloudy periods
14 Mar
3°C
30%
Chance of flurries
-3°C
Cloudy periods
15 Mar
2°C
6
Took advantage of the good weather Randy sent us, and yes, the bumper had do come down (or at least be loosened) to pull the center panel and the other lamp. Bolts came right out which is nice. Took the bumper right off anyway.
Pulled out the trunk weatherstrip while cleaning up the back panel, which exposed another issue I knew was there. See new post.
Not in the works yet Todd. The thought is, but the funds aren't.
If and when the time comes, I'll at least an expert at taking everything off the car again.
About a year ago I picked up some better lamp bezels and a center panel. All the diecast on the 65 was as bad as you'd ever see. I have to say, some of those western wrecking yard 65's in pictures here are enough to make me weep.
In a step to making ALL the rear diecast look better, I just spent the better part of the afternoon and eve preparing the center panel for paint. The panel isn't the best, but it's overall better than what was on there. I'd call it a 20 footer. I scrubbed it with dish soap and hot water in the shower to get all the wax out of the grooves and pits. Then knocked down any flash from the pits in those grooves. Took a brass wire wheel in a drill and removed all the paint in the grooves, and buffed into the letters. Washed it again in the shower with a final spray with brake cleaner.
Then spent 2 hours masking off everything I want to keep chrome. Used good 3M masking tape. Crazy job, every rib was masked and the tape cut away. But the detail focus was actually very satisfying. I was so proud of my masking job I just had to include it in this thread lol! Sorry if you find me crazy.
I'll spray it Matt black tomorrow. And remember, if you ever happen come across some really nice 65 rear diecast, "Pontiac" script, keep me in mind. This stuff is not easy to find in nice shape.
I just need to figure out how to wind down...not up! Good thread Mark..you notice how one thing always leads to another......
Painted. Still needs some black and white in the letters. I'm ok with the result. Not the best, but it'll suit the car.
Original and the replacement,
Another trick for masking is to use pinstripe tape
for the delicate edges normal tape for the in between parts.
Hope that makes sense
pinstriping can be had from Canadian Tire still as far as I know.
love following along Mark!
looks like a fun car!
All this mundane stuff is keeping me happy and occupied Greg. And the car has been a fun and satisfying project. Just at the point of being in good enough shape not to make it a chore.
Pinstripe tape would have been quicker and better, but this worked ok. The key was good tape and a couple of throwaway small boxcutters from Dollarama to cut the tape. Keep breaking them off for a good edge. The chrome pits are hard on the blade edge.
Painted the letters. White Tremclad sprayed into a cap is thin enough to flow in using a fine brush. 2 coats.
Then when dry, cleaned up the edges of the letters with a fine electronics cotton swab, just dampened with paint thinner.
The white makes the letters pop.
This was a perfect job for after the breakfast special (Sausage, Bacon, Ham, 3 eggs, hash browns, 4 slices of toast, 4 coffees).
I could do it sitting down. Ooof.
I hope that's what the 3 of you shared!
each booth there comes with its own defibrillator
Cleaned up, masked off and painted the black areas on the bezels.
Picked out the two best lamp buckets, cleaned them up, spray painted them aluminum on the outside, and Dupli-color "Chrome" on the inside.
Cleaned off the 56 year old adhesive off the lens gaskets, no idea what it is (was), but it's a sticky mess and took an hour. No solvent can touch it. One gasket was NOS which was nice, the other was still pliable.
Bolted it all together with the NOS lenses. I'm happy.
Rewired the lights using a reworked 64 harness Bill (a41cat) gave me (you can see it in the first picture). Bonus is in 64 they used actual high quality metal lamp sockets. In 65 they went to plastic. The sockets are exactly the same, the wiring a little longer but the plate connector is in the same spot.
Added a new Weatherpack 4 pin connector from the body to tailamp harness.
The photo doesn't do it justice, but the nos lenses are crisp and clear, the lamps nice and bright. Stayed with the 1157 incandescents as I don't think LED's are really appropriate for the rear after all.
As they were, one could have kept things bandaged up and the lights would still have worked, but now I have the piece of mind knowing there should be no issues here in the future,