Figured I'd start another topic. I hope you guys don't mind, I figure the more content here the better.
Now I've known since I bought the car, that the trunk weatherstrip channel suffered from rustout. Not surprising on this car as it apparently sat outside unused for 20 years. I bet any 65/66 that has sat in the weather has the exact same issue. Water, dirt and a rotten weatherstrip and there you go. the design is such that all the water carries down to the lower section, and gets behind the rubber and stays wet.
I'm actually lucky in that it doesn't travel up past the lower channel corners, and as such is pretty much only along the lower section. And the worst being at the latch. Either way, it will have to be cut out and repaired. It's another one of those jobs where it really has to be done it the car is to have a future. The time to do it is before the better lights and panel go back in, so I'm going to try to come up with a plan of attack and get to it soon.
Options; Piece it in like I did with the windshield, try to buy new channel, or get a good or better section cut from an existing car.
What do you guys think? Anyone done it on a B? Any ideas?
You might find a good tail panel out west. I got one for my 61 at Elfros auto wreckers in Elfros Sask. Panel was good and it was not expensive. They may have one for a 65. You could also try Frankspontiacparts in California. I took the one out of my Catalina to replace the trunk floor. It was not that difficult but you will need a mig welder, clamps, a piece of copper or aluminum for welding and it takes a while.
4SPEED427 said
Mar 9, 2021
So it pretty much needs from corner to corner along the bottom?
a421cat said
Mar 9, 2021
Mark,
Check out this supplier for rear window and trunk repair channels. <www.beldenspeed.com>.
Bill.
cdnpont said
Mar 9, 2021
I've seen that Belden channel Bill. It would be a good start anyway. I wish you could get more of the complete "U", and to be honest, I'm not looking to replace the entire tail panel.
The thing is, there is good sections still in the lower run. While it would be the cleanest and probably the best way to just cut it out corner to corner. It would be possible to piece it in.
More or less this is the channel side on,
Here's the rusted run, and some closeup shots across left to right. I've seen far worse on line, I actually feel lucky.
Pontiacanada said
Mar 10, 2021
My stomach would have dropped if I removed the seal and found that. If anyone can fix it, you can Mark.
cdnpont said
Mar 10, 2021
Compared to the windshield channel it shouldn't be too bad Darryl. It's in a great spot to work on at least.
I'm going to ask;
Does anyone on CP have a good sheet metal brake and shear that could shear up then bend some channel sections for me? Or at least know someone local who could do this?
To do it right the whole section has to come out and be replaced.
I know this type of channel would be difficult to bend in one go without a brake press, but I could do this in two sections (split being at the red line) and weld it up along the seam.
I'd send a cutout from the existing channel so as to get the right dimensions and profile, and I will pay for the time, material and shipping. I think it's around 18-20 Gauge. and it can just be cold rolled, not galv.
Would end up as 4 sections about 21" long, Any thoughts?
Someone here must have a parts car that would sacrifice a channel with enough solid areas that you could use it to put in sections?
cdnpont said
Mar 10, 2021
Thanks Carl. If someone here had some decent channel that they would part, that would be more than great. But I fear anything sitting outside will be suffering the same (or worse) fate.
I've seem images of this issue where there is no channel left, none!
Since everything forward now depends on me getting this in some semblance of repair, I'm going to go down to a small metal fab shop around the corner, and see what they have to say.
See if the can bend some small sections, or at least point me in the right direction. It's not like I need a ton of it. I only need about 42" of run. Wish me luck.
a421cat said
Mar 10, 2021
Mark,
The club has a 4 foot box and pan brake that you could use or I could help you use. We do not have a shear so you would need to get strips from somewhere. Just let me know.
Bill.
cdnpont said
Mar 10, 2021
Thanks Bill. I'll definitely keep that in mind.
norontcan said
Mar 10, 2021
It's been 4 years since I took these pictures out in Tilley, AB but it might be worth a phone call or email.
The V8 emblems might also still be there.
Most of the chrome on these 2 was very decent. I know because I bought one of the sets of headlight bezels.
Mark, I'll check I if my '64 parts car has the same size/style of channel and how good it is.
cdnpont said
Mar 11, 2021
Thanks for the offer Darryl. Looks like I should be able to make something at least close.
I went over to the small local fab/weld shop, and he actually said I'm free to use his brake myself, but unfortunately had no light material. So I went over to B+D steel and had them shear up some 18gauge galv, in what I thought would allow me to fab up a channel in two pieces. Cost; $11. Grabbed two extra as well for the mistakes. I'm using galv if just for the durability of it, and 18g as it's just slightly heavier compared to what is there.
Cut a small good section out of the channel to have a profile template. Taped along where I think the channel should be cut off, and took some measurements as to how the channel sits as far as height, distance in, and angle to the rear panel.
If I only had a small press brake, I could do the channel in one piece and as an exact copy, and probably make a bunch more up to sell as repair sections. As it sits, it'll have to be done in two parts.
Can you weld galv with a standard MIG or do you need special wire and/or gas?
cdnpont said
Mar 11, 2021
Standard wire and gas is fine. The zinc should be ground away best you can wherever you plan on making a weld.
65 SD L79 said
Mar 11, 2021
a421cat wrote:
Mark,
Check out this supplier for rear window and trunk repair channels. <www.beldenspeed.com>.
Bill.
this info is GOLD Bill, thanx for posting
woodytwoshoes said
Mar 12, 2021
i have the same problem with my 66 parisienne, youtube has a guy from Nfld. his channel is Fitzees Fabrications and he shows how to fab it up in three pieces. im going to try it on mine. ill let you know how it worked out.
cdnpont said
Mar 12, 2021
That guy is amazing and inspirational Dave. I saw his gutter vid. While the gutter he does doesn't really resemble ours, the techniques are certainly universal. I need to go back and watch more of his stuff to get revved up.
I tried bending my material today in a nice Brown and Boggs brake. And it was pretty much a fail (although I hit it off meeting with a great shop owner!). 18g is probably too heavy and the material too hard to make small bends. It feels like PQ (physical quality). So next I'm going to try to piece up and weld a gutter from the 2 sections I was able to partially bend. I already have some material with 90 degree bends in it as well, so I'll use that as well. I say it's all part of the process having setbacks and learning from them.
4SPEED427 said
Mar 13, 2021
cdnpont wrote:
That guy is amazing and inspirational Dave. I saw his gutter vid. While the gutter he does doesn't really resemble ours, the techniques are certainly universal. I need to go back and watch more of his stuff to get revved up.
I tried bending my material today in a nice Brown and Boggs brake. And it was pretty much a fail (although I hit it off meeting with a great shop owner!). 18g is probably too heavy and the material too hard to make small bends. It feels like PQ (physical quality). So next I'm going to try to piece up and weld a gutter from the 2 sections I was able to partially bend. I already have some material with 90 degree bends in it as well, so I'll use that as well. I say it's all part of the process having setbacks and learning from them.
A fail is still progress Mark. One step closer.
Make sure you post pictures. Even of the failure showing why it isn't going to work. I'm sure all of us have learned from others trying things and then explaining to us that we can't do it the way we thought it might work.
Pontiacanada said
Mar 13, 2021
cdnpont wrote:
The zinc should be ground away best you can wherever you plan on making a weld.
Yes, it is poisonous if inhaled.
I forgot to check mine, I'll check today.
cdnpont said
Mar 13, 2021
I'd love to see this gutter with my own eyes, it looks pretty decent Ted.
Any Alberta members close to this wrecker in Tilley?
Do you have access to a bead roller? Might be able to bend the angles you need with a set of tipping rollers.
Bill.
cdnpont said
Mar 13, 2021
Thanks Bill. I thought I was defeated. But using a couple pieces of heavy plate in a vice, I managed to dolly the two strips into some semblance of shape.
Then cut off one part of the S section, all the way across at the arrow,
Cleaned the edge up, ground off the zinc, then butted it into the C channel section at about the right spot and angle.
Holding it in place by hand, I tacked it first in the center, then when happy with that slight back angle, I tacked out to the edges about 6" apart. Then gradually filled it in until complete.
Ground the weld down a bit, looks like might do the job at this point,
Took a small section of old weatherstrip and tried it in the channel. Nests in just fine, just like the original. You just don't know until you see proof like this.
I'll dolly in a little downward curve to the edge on the right, as to meet the tailpanel at just a wee angle as required.
Next up, remove the old section in such a way that the new can be put in without too much fuss,
Figured I'd start another topic. I hope you guys don't mind, I figure the more content here the better.
Now I've known since I bought the car, that the trunk weatherstrip channel suffered from rustout. Not surprising on this car as it apparently sat outside unused for 20 years. I bet any 65/66 that has sat in the weather has the exact same issue. Water, dirt and a rotten weatherstrip and there you go. the design is such that all the water carries down to the lower section, and gets behind the rubber and stays wet.
I'm actually lucky in that it doesn't travel up past the lower channel corners, and as such is pretty much only along the lower section. And the worst being at the latch. Either way, it will have to be cut out and repaired. It's another one of those jobs where it really has to be done it the car is to have a future. The time to do it is before the better lights and panel go back in, so I'm going to try to come up with a plan of attack and get to it soon.
Options; Piece it in like I did with the windshield, try to buy new channel, or get a good or better section cut from an existing car.
What do you guys think? Anyone done it on a B? Any ideas?
Check out this supplier for rear window and trunk repair channels. <www.beldenspeed.com>.
Bill.
I've seen that Belden channel Bill. It would be a good start anyway. I wish you could get more of the complete "U", and to be honest, I'm not looking to replace the entire tail panel.
The thing is, there is good sections still in the lower run. While it would be the cleanest and probably the best way to just cut it out corner to corner. It would be possible to piece it in.
More or less this is the channel side on,
Here's the rusted run, and some closeup shots across left to right. I've seen far worse on line, I actually feel lucky.
My stomach would have dropped if I removed the seal and found that.
If anyone can fix it, you can Mark.
Compared to the windshield channel it shouldn't be too bad Darryl. It's in a great spot to work on at least.
I'm going to ask;
Does anyone on CP have a good sheet metal brake and shear that could shear up then bend some channel sections for me? Or at least know someone local who could do this?
To do it right the whole section has to come out and be replaced.
I know this type of channel would be difficult to bend in one go without a brake press, but I could do this in two sections (split being at the red line) and weld it up along the seam.
I'd send a cutout from the existing channel so as to get the right dimensions and profile, and I will pay for the time, material and shipping. I think it's around 18-20 Gauge. and it can just be cold rolled, not galv.
Would end up as 4 sections about 21" long, Any thoughts?
Thanks Carl. If someone here had some decent channel that they would part, that would be more than great. But I fear anything sitting outside will be suffering the same (or worse) fate.
I've seem images of this issue where there is no channel left, none!
Since everything forward now depends on me getting this in some semblance of repair, I'm going to go down to a small metal fab shop around the corner, and see what they have to say.
See if the can bend some small sections, or at least point me in the right direction. It's not like I need a ton of it. I only need about 42" of run. Wish me luck.
The club has a 4 foot box and pan brake that you could use or I could help you use. We do not have a shear so you would need to get strips from somewhere. Just let me know.
Bill.
Thanks Bill. I'll definitely keep that in mind.
It's been 4 years since I took these pictures out in Tilley, AB but it might be worth a phone call or email.
The V8 emblems might also still be there.
Most of the chrome on these 2 was very decent. I know because I bought one of the sets of headlight bezels.
Mark, I'll check I if my '64 parts car has the same size/style of channel and how good it is.
Thanks for the offer Darryl. Looks like I should be able to make something at least close.
I went over to the small local fab/weld shop, and he actually said I'm free to use his brake myself, but unfortunately had no light material. So I went over to B+D steel and had them shear up some 18gauge galv, in what I thought would allow me to fab up a channel in two pieces. Cost; $11. Grabbed two extra as well for the mistakes. I'm using galv if just for the durability of it, and 18g as it's just slightly heavier compared to what is there.
Cut a small good section out of the channel to have a profile template. Taped along where I think the channel should be cut off, and took some measurements as to how the channel sits as far as height, distance in, and angle to the rear panel.
If I only had a small press brake, I could do the channel in one piece and as an exact copy, and probably make a bunch more up to sell as repair sections. As it sits, it'll have to be done in two parts.
Standard wire and gas is fine. The zinc should be ground away best you can wherever you plan on making a weld.
this info is GOLD Bill, thanx for posting
That guy is amazing and inspirational Dave. I saw his gutter vid. While the gutter he does doesn't really resemble ours, the techniques are certainly universal. I need to go back and watch more of his stuff to get revved up.
I tried bending my material today in a nice Brown and Boggs brake. And it was pretty much a fail (although I hit it off meeting with a great shop owner!). 18g is probably too heavy and the material too hard to make small bends. It feels like PQ (physical quality). So next I'm going to try to piece up and weld a gutter from the 2 sections I was able to partially bend. I already have some material with 90 degree bends in it as well, so I'll use that as well. I say it's all part of the process having setbacks and learning from them.
A fail is still progress Mark. One step closer.
Make sure you post pictures. Even of the failure showing why it isn't going to work. I'm sure all of us have learned from others trying things and then explaining to us that we can't do it the way we thought it might work.
Yes, it is poisonous if inhaled.
I forgot to check mine, I'll check today.
I'd love to see this gutter with my own eyes, it looks pretty decent Ted.
Any Alberta members close to this wrecker in Tilley?
Do you have access to a bead roller? Might be able to bend the angles you need with a set of tipping rollers.
Bill.
Thanks Bill. I thought I was defeated. But using a couple pieces of heavy plate in a vice, I managed to dolly the two strips into some semblance of shape.
Then cut off one part of the S section, all the way across at the arrow,
Cleaned the edge up, ground off the zinc, then butted it into the C channel section at about the right spot and angle.
Holding it in place by hand, I tacked it first in the center, then when happy with that slight back angle, I tacked out to the edges about 6" apart. Then gradually filled it in until complete.
Ground the weld down a bit, looks like might do the job at this point,
Took a small section of old weatherstrip and tried it in the channel. Nests in just fine, just like the original. You just don't know until you see proof like this.
I'll dolly in a little downward curve to the edge on the right, as to meet the tailpanel at just a wee angle as required.
Next up, remove the old section in such a way that the new can be put in without too much fuss,
If that doesn't look professional I don't know what does. Wow. Nice work Mark. I expect you will get some orders!