Waking up a hibernating 327 small bock after a 22 year nap.
LeeRoy said
Aug 23, 2021
Time to get my 67 Malibu back on the road. Been sitting since 1999. Motor is a small journal 66 327 cast nov 66. Trans is turbo 350. So we pulled the plugs, disconnected the battery and rotated it by hand. All was well till about 90% through first revolution and clunk to a dead stop. Reversed direction traveled the same 90% of a rotation and stopped at the same point. Would not move any further with a breaker bar on the crank pulley. Set distributor to tdc#1 cyl, removed distributor and intake manifold. Valley was very clean, no sludge or crud. Our theory is a stuck valve or lifter? Any thoughts or remedies? Thanks.
timbuk said
Aug 23, 2021
pull the valve covers and give it a go lube lube
4SPEED427 said
Aug 23, 2021
Don't force it. Figure out which pistons are at the top when it stops, pull those plugs out and borrow a camera that you can poke in the spark plug hole. If there's something in the cylinder you could do some nice damage forcing it.
4SPEED427 said
Aug 23, 2021
The engine/trans were never separated that whole time? A manual trans flywheel bolt installed in an automatic flexplate will act like that. It snags on the block webbing. Going back to when I was 20 years old, ask me how I know
beaumontguru said
Aug 23, 2021
It will have a stuck valve.
LeeRoy said
Aug 23, 2021
Plugs are remove. Car has been an automatic trans its entire life. Current trans has not been removed and re installed.
LeeRoy said
Aug 23, 2021
beaumontguru wrote:
It will have a stuck valve.
Im not a mechanic but Im leaning towards a stuck valve as the culprit. Now to figure out which one it is?
-- Edited by LeeRoy on Monday 23rd of August 2021 07:12:15 PM
4SPEED427 said
Aug 23, 2021
You can figure out which 2 pistons are at the top by looking where the timing mark is when it jams.
4SPEED427 said
Aug 23, 2021
Do you know how to do that or do you need a hand with it?
LeeRoy said
Aug 23, 2021
4SPEED427 wrote:
Do you know how to do that or do you need a hand with it?
Put distributor back in, rotor should point to the cylinder thats firing when crank stops rotating? I guess thats a start?
OURWAGON said
Aug 23, 2021
IF IT IS A STUCK VALVE, SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM TO SEE ,
ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE LOWER THAN THE REST.
LAY A STRAIGHT EDGE ON THE TOP OF THE STEMS.
LOW ONE WILL BE QUITE VISIBLE.
ROCKER WILL BE LOOSE AS WELL!!
-- Edited by OURWAGON on Monday 23rd of August 2021 08:53:31 PM
4SPEED427 said
Aug 23, 2021
LeeRoy wrote:
Put distributor back in, rotor should point to the cylinder thats firing when crank stops rotating? I guess thats a start?
The one firing and the one across from it on the cap will both be at the top. You can do that or divide the balancer into 1/4s using the timing mark as your first mark and do it that way.
LeeRoy said
Aug 23, 2021
OURWAGON wrote:
IF IT IS A STUCK VALVE, SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM TO SEE ,
ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE LOWER THAN THE REST.
LAY A STRAIGHT EDGE ON THE TOP OF THE STEMS.
LOW ONE WILL BE QUITE VISIBLE.
ROCKER WILL BE LOOSE AS WELL!!
Assuming the rocker arms would need to be removed to apply the straight edge to the valve stems? Looks like a good way to check unless the problem valve is stuck closed?
-- Edited by OURWAGON on Monday 23rd of August 2021 08:53:31 PM
DonSSDD said
Aug 24, 2021
I think if the valve was stuck closed, it wouldn't be hitting a piston, which is likely what is happening? I'm GREEN here, but could you not tap on the rocker arms very carefully, just a bit of a tap, not a BFH, and you may find the stuck valve and maybe unstick it?
MC said
Aug 24, 2021
Not an expert here, but if the valve is stuck open enough to be hitting a piston, wouldn't it be easy to see it without a straight edge? Plus, if you were rotating the crank without a valve cover on it would be the only valve not moving to some degree, I would think.
I wouldn't think that it's one that is stuck closed as it would be stopping by pressure from the cam lobe, perhaps, and wouldn't make a clunk like a piston hitting a valve would.
Just my thoughts... hope it helps a little.
OURWAGON said
Aug 24, 2021
MC wrote:
Not an expert here, but if the valve is stuck open enough to be hitting a piston, wouldn't it be easy to see it without a straight edge? Plus, if you were rotating the crank without a valve cover on it would be the only valve not moving to some degree, I would think.
I wouldn't think that it's one that is stuck closed as it would be stopping by pressure from the cam lobe, perhaps, and wouldn't make a clunk like a piston hitting a valve would.
Just my thoughts... hope it helps a little.
MARK, I AGREE ON THE SRAIGHT EDGE IF IT IS DOWN THAT FAR, NOT HARD TO SEE.
NOT SURE HOW MUTCH GUIDANCE LEEROY NEEDS.
LeeRoy said
Aug 24, 2021
OURWAGON wrote:
MC wrote:
Not an expert here, but if the valve is stuck open enough to be hitting a piston, wouldn't it be easy to see it without a straight edge? Plus, if you were rotating the crank without a valve cover on it would be the only valve not moving to some degree, I would think.
I wouldn't think that it's one that is stuck closed as it would be stopping by pressure from the cam lobe, perhaps, and wouldn't make a clunk like a piston hitting a valve would.
Just my thoughts... hope it helps a little.
MARK, I AGREE ON THE SRAIGHT EDGE IF IT IS DOWN THAT FAR, NOT HARD TO SEE.
NOT SURE HOW MUTCH GUIDANCE LEEROY NEEDS.
All he can get! Thanks for all the thoughts/suggestions. Grand kids visiting for a few days then back at it. Is it possible for a valve that hasnt been dropped to hit a piston in a small block? Dont think it has domed pistons.
Prefectca said
Aug 24, 2021
Yes, if an intake valve is stuck open it can hit the piston. I dont think that the exhaust valve would hit because of the smaller size. You need to pull the valve covers to see whats going on. You could also have a bit of rust at the top of one of the cylinders stopping the piston.
Paul
LeeRoy said
Aug 24, 2021
Valve covers and intake have been removed. You can hear the rotating assembly hitting something (clunk)when it stops moving rather than just stopping like it became stuck.
seventy2plus2 said
Aug 24, 2021
LeeRoy wrote:
Valve covers and intake have been removed. You can hear the rotating assembly hitting something (clunk)when it stops moving rather than just stopping like it became stuck.
Is there a loose rocker arm? If so, that may be your valve that's stuck open.
HK1837 said
Aug 26, 2021
If you manage to sort the engine I'd be at least dropping the pan on the TH350 and changing the oil and filter. My guess is you'll have a leaky TH350 though. I had to pull the TH400 out of my 1974 Premier that only has 60,000 miles on it but it had sat for a while. The seals had gone hard and weeped. Needed the converter seal, yoke seal, both speedo drive seals, O ring on the dipstick and the selector shaft seal. Got it serviced whilst it was out, was perfect other than seals and older fluid.
LeeRoy said
Aug 26, 2021
HK1837 wrote:
If you manage to sort the engine I'd be at least dropping the pan on the TH350 and changing the oil and filter. My guess is you'll have a leaky TH350 though. I had to pull the TH400 out of my 1974 Premier that only has 60,000 miles on it but it had sat for a while. The seals had gone hard and weeped. Needed the converter seal, yoke seal, both speedo drive seals, O ring on the dipstick and the selector shaft seal. Got it serviced whilst it was out, was perfect other than seals and older fluid.
All good advice thank. once I confirm that the engine has survived I have a700r4 that I am going to have done over before swapping it in for the turbo 350. The 12 bolt has 3.55 gears so the overdrive feature on the 700r will help with highway cruising. Doesnt hurt that it has a much lower 1st gear for better launching.
LeeRoy said
Sep 7, 2021
So removed rocker arms and a straight edge seems to indicate that all the valves are in the closed position. Going to double check that with a better light and younger eyes. Another suggestion is perhaps the fuel pump rod is stuck in one position after 22 year. Going to check that out next.
67Poncho said
Sep 7, 2021
LeeRoy wrote:
So removed rocker arms and a straight edge seems to indicate that all the valves are in the closed position. Going to double check that with a better light and younger eyes. Another suggestion is perhaps the fuel pump rod is stuck in one position after 22 year. Going to check that out next.
They are closed BUT did you tap them to see if they were free and unstuck?
Did you rotate the crank and pistons with all push rods removed?
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 7th of September 2021 03:26:59 PM
LeeRoy said
Sep 7, 2021
The rocker arms are removed, the push rods are sitting on the lifters. So if the valves are all closed there should be nothing for a piston to hit? Maybe a lifter is stuck and not riding on the cam? Be gentle. Im an electrician not a mechanic lol.
Time to get my 67 Malibu back on the road. Been sitting since 1999. Motor is a small journal 66 327 cast nov 66. Trans is turbo 350. So we pulled the plugs, disconnected the battery and rotated it by hand. All was well till about 90% through first revolution and clunk to a dead stop. Reversed direction traveled the same 90% of a rotation and stopped at the same point. Would not move any further with a breaker bar on the crank pulley. Set distributor to tdc#1 cyl, removed distributor and intake manifold. Valley was very clean, no sludge or crud. Our theory is a stuck valve or lifter? Any thoughts or remedies? Thanks.
The engine/trans were never separated that whole time? A manual trans flywheel bolt installed in an automatic flexplate will act like that.
It snags on the block webbing. Going back to when I was 20 years old, ask me how I know
It will have a stuck valve.
Plugs are remove. Car has been an automatic trans its entire life. Current trans has not been removed and re installed.
Im not a mechanic but Im leaning towards a stuck valve as the culprit. Now to figure out which one it is?
-- Edited by LeeRoy on Monday 23rd of August 2021 07:12:15 PM
Do you know how to do that or do you need a hand with it?
Put distributor back in, rotor should point to the cylinder thats firing when crank stops rotating? I guess thats a start?
IF IT IS A STUCK VALVE, SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM TO SEE ,
ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE LOWER THAN THE REST.
LAY A STRAIGHT EDGE ON THE TOP OF THE STEMS.
LOW ONE WILL BE QUITE VISIBLE.
ROCKER WILL BE LOOSE AS WELL!!
-- Edited by OURWAGON on Monday 23rd of August 2021 08:53:31 PM
The one firing and the one across from it on the cap will both be at the top. You can do that or divide the balancer into 1/4s using the timing mark as your first mark and do it that way.
Not an expert here, but if the valve is stuck open enough to be hitting a piston, wouldn't it be easy to see it without a straight edge? Plus, if you were rotating the crank without a valve cover on it would be the only valve not moving to some degree, I would think.
I wouldn't think that it's one that is stuck closed as it would be stopping by pressure from the cam lobe, perhaps, and wouldn't make a clunk like a piston hitting a valve would.
Just my thoughts... hope it helps a little.
MARK, I AGREE ON THE SRAIGHT EDGE IF IT IS DOWN THAT FAR, NOT HARD TO SEE.
NOT SURE HOW MUTCH GUIDANCE LEEROY NEEDS.
All he can get! Thanks for all the thoughts/suggestions. Grand kids visiting for a few days then back at it. Is it possible for a valve that hasnt been dropped to hit a piston in a small block? Dont think it has domed pistons.
Paul
Valve covers and intake have been removed. You can hear the rotating assembly hitting something (clunk)when it stops moving rather than just stopping like it became stuck.
Is there a loose rocker arm? If so, that may be your valve that's stuck open.
All good advice thank. once I confirm that the engine has survived I have a700r4 that I am going to have done over before swapping it in for the turbo 350. The 12 bolt has 3.55 gears so the overdrive feature on the 700r will help with highway cruising. Doesnt hurt that it has a much lower 1st gear for better launching.
So removed rocker arms and a straight edge seems to indicate that all the valves are in the closed position. Going to double check that with a better light and younger eyes. Another suggestion is perhaps the fuel pump rod is stuck in one position after 22 year. Going to check that out next.
They are closed BUT did you tap them to see if they were free and unstuck?
Did you rotate the crank and pistons with all push rods removed?
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 7th of September 2021 03:26:59 PM
The rocker arms are removed, the push rods are sitting on the lifters. So if the valves are all closed there should be nothing for a piston to hit? Maybe a lifter is stuck and not riding on the cam? Be gentle. Im an electrician not a mechanic lol.