Breakdown in Marathon! Montreal to Cypress Hills road trip, '63 Laurentian
roycross said
Jun 30, 2022
Hi everyone,
I'm leaving Montreal tomorrow (July 1) morning. Rolling through Ottawa, North Bay, Sudbury, The Soo, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Yorkton, Regina, arriving in Eastend, Saskatchewan.
Front end repairs miraculously done on short notice by Peter at P&R Auto in Montreal. Peter is an amazing human and really extended a kind gesture to get me on the road.
Rear springs are groaning a little as I loaded the car down. Hoping to put 600-700 kms under the wheels each day. I'll try to send some photos along the way. Happy to stop for a coffee if it's not too far off the road.
Thanks to everyone for the wisdom and advice.
Roy in Montreal
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 06:03:47 PM
Have fun on the trip, bring a cooler with ice for the water- black car in the summer heat. Youll get more stares and waves than a new Ferrari or corvette and plenty of my -_________ used to own one of these cars/what year is that/etc. Tell them its a 4 door Canadian only GTO.
Canadian Poncho said
Jul 1, 2022
I'm looking forward to your trip updates! Have a great time!
gparis7 said
Jul 1, 2022
Good luck and enjoy the road trip.
67Poncho said
Jul 1, 2022
Foam lake is just an hour west of Yorkton on the #16 Yellowhead... you could always rejoin the #10 at Fort Qu'Appelle via the #35 junction south that is only 15 minutes to the west of me or take the #6 south at the Dafoe junction that is 45 minutes west of me on the Yellowhead #16.
If time is an issue and if it were a weekend, I could meet you in Yorkton....
otus said
Jul 1, 2022
Good luck, I should have mentioned the dang steady bearing. If your car starts shaking like the dickens you'll have a steady bearing issue. I drove my old car home after it had not been on the road in decades. I got caught out with a bad steady bearing! Take care and keep us posted. Best wishes from B.C.
roycross said
Jul 1, 2022
North Bay.
Had a late start to the trip. Hectic morning. Arrived in North Bay. Dropped my son at his friend's place. Photo of us before leaving Mtl.
Tomorrow I'll be looking for an alignment shop that can fix me up. Hopefully something here or in Sudbury.
The cloudy day made for comfortable driving.
The 250 Chev inline 6 power plant pulled off an impressive 16.5 mpg, with a full load in the trunk and back seat!
Short version: In need of repairs in Marathon, Ontario. The electric fuel pump was acting up. I think, so is the water pump. Hoping the Napa Auto shop can help me out tomorrow. (not with a water pump, but with a diagnosis and possible an electric fuel pump.)
Fuel pump is electric. PO said he could not get a mechanical one to work properly. He put a relay switch under the dash in the car, so I can open the current to the pump before starting. Once it starts, I turn off the switch. Last night when I was checking the oil, I thought I could hear the pump running, so I went to check the switch. It was off. This morning, my battery was dead. A few times when I went to turn off the ignition, the engine kept running. I had to on/off the fuel pump relay numerous times to get the car to shut off. Those two signs suggested to me a problem. I pulled into Marathon to see if CanTire had a pump. They did not. I replaced the battery as it was on my list anyway. The car seemed to be running okay. So I left for Thunder Bay. Five miles out, the car was starved for fuel and would climb a hill. I turned around and here I am.
Now, I hear an intermittent screech under the hood. See video link in this post.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks
Roy in Marathon, Ontario.
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 06:03:08 PM
timbuk said
Jul 3, 2022
screechy sound check fan bolts a little lube on the alt bearing and some soap on that belt as for the fuel pump sounds like a replace or rewire id be going back to factory fuel pump i think they run directly off cam so the only way that wouldnt work if the lobe was gone? not sure if ive heard of that one...
seventy2plus2 said
Jul 3, 2022
I'd say you have an electrical problem with your ignition switch. And your electric fuel pump wiring is also suspicious.
roycross said
Jul 3, 2022
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I'd say you have an electrical problem with your ignition switch. And your electric fuel pump wiring is also suspicious.
Suspicious wiring with fuel pump is quite certain. Ignition switch, I'll have to take a look. My volt meter also failed on me today.
thanks a lot!
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 07:59:54 PM
roycross said
Jul 3, 2022
timbuk wrote:
screechy sound check fan bolts a little lube on the alt bearing and some soap on that belt as for the fuel pump sounds like a replace or rewire id be going back to factory fuel pump i think they run directly off cam so the only way that wouldnt work if the lobe was gone? not sure if ive heard of that one...
Check fan bolts for? sorry, I didn't understand that suggestion. The Alt bearing might explain the sound, but would it also affect the voltage output?
I have a new fan belt I brought along. I could change it out.
yeah, the original factory pump is still installed. I'd prefer it. I'll see how hard it is to get a new electrical fuel pump for now.
thanks so much!
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 08:35:22 PM
timbuk said
Jul 3, 2022
make sure your 4 fan bolts are tight
seventy2plus2 said
Jul 3, 2022
yeah, the original factory pump is still installed. I'd prefer it. I'll see how hard it is to get a new electrical fuel pump for now.
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 08:35:22 PM
Are you saying the mechanical fuel pump is still installed? If so, you should hear it pumping, even if it's just pumping air.
roycross said
Jul 4, 2022
I'll have a closer listen, but I didn't hear it when I was investigating. My guess is, it didn't work for the previous owner, so he switched over to the electric. It's possible that if I put a working fuel pump in, that it might be fine. Again, the idea of a worn lobe on the cam seems improbable.
I'm in a town with limited resources. I think the CanTire employee said he had an electric fuel pump rated: 4-7 psi. The one currently on the car is 2.5-4 psi. If I'm going to be stuck for a period time could I installed the bigger one and run it for the 300 kms to Thunder Bay?
seventy2plus2 said
Jul 4, 2022
1. You say "A few times when I went to turn off the ignition, the engine kept running." To me, this is a problem with your ignition switch. Even if the electric fuel pump keeps running, turning the ignition switch off kills the electrical to the coil which stops the engine.
2. If the mechanical pump is still installed but the fuel lines disconnected, you will definitely hear it. Unless it's diaphram is shot then it might be pretty quiet.
3. The Canadian Tire 4-7 psi fuel pump will be sufficient. The needle & seat in the carburator should be able to hold that pressure.
DonSSDD said
Jul 4, 2022
They may sell a fuel pressure regulator and you can control the pressure. Over 4.5 or so may be too much, but may work well enough on the highway, just not run good at lower speeds.
roycross said
Jul 4, 2022
Thanks, Don and 70 2+2,
Installed the new pump. Was not the 4-7 psi one. Found one at Napa. Lots of fuel to the carb. Idled fine. Got out onto the highway and same previous symptoms. Stumbling, and then it stalled. Would not start at all.
Tried a few things. No luck. Someone came by and we checked for spark. 12 volts to the coil, but no spark at the distributor or to the plugs. Pulled a plug to check. Nothing.
Someone else came along from the towing company and who runs an auto service here in town. We pulled the + and - wires off the coil and tested to see if a pulse came from the distributor. Nothing. Suspect the electronic ignition module is finished.
Someone from the highway maintenance yard that I had rolled up to, at the shoulder, came out and helped confirm the diagnosis.
Someone else came along from New Jersey in a mid 70s Beetle. He put a meter across the coil and ascertained that it was good. Not sure what he was doing, so can't explain it.
Someone else came along who was driving to Thunder Bay. He took a photo of the ignition module, and someone he knows has one in Thunder Bay.
I'll have to get the part sent out. I'll know more in the morning.
Additional info:
Voltmeter on my gauge cluster shows about 17 volts. It started spiking intermittently to 17+ volts a few days ago. I changed out the battery, but the spiking continued. I thought the bearing might be going on the alternator and Napa had one in stock. I bought it, but thought I would drop it in if the problem persisted down the road. I never got down the road. The new alternator, not installed in my car, has been the most affordable part of my stop in Marathon.
While investigating the ignition switch, we discovered that one of the fuses was blown out. We popped in another, and it was really charged, sparked a bit and blew the new fuse immediately (albeit not the correct amperage).
So that is worrying.
Oh, I called in for a tow at about 2:00 pm. By 7:45 he still had not shown up. He was in Thunder Bay. Midnight was his best guess. No other trucks within 100 kms. The fellow from the maintenance yard said I could pull my car into his yard and leave it for the night. I called the tow truck company and told them to get it in the morning. The first guy who stopped to help came back, and he pulled me into the yard with his truck.
Crazy day.
Tonnes of kindness. Great for inspiring faith in humanity.
DonSSDD said
Jul 5, 2022
Look at all the new nice people you are meeting. Too bad you are having so many different issues.
Which fuse blew?
Do you have the stock external voltage regulator and alternator? Maybe it is pumping out 17 volts and that caused your electrical problems? Could be a bad regulator. Is your new alternator internally regulated?
roycross said
Jul 5, 2022
Yes. It has been a great experience. Met lots of great people. It has been a good lesson for me in many ways. One of them is how spoiled I became living in Montreal with any need within arm's reach. And also how to remain calm and not be frustrated by the situation.
I spoke to the previous owner. He purchased the electronic ignition components at his local parts store in Yorkton (in stock!).
He also mentioned the voltage regulator as a possible culprit in the chain. The stock alternator and voltage regulator are currently in the car. I did not install the alternator yet. It is sitting in my car. I can't verify if the new one is internally regulated.
He also mentioned the voltage regulator as a possible culprit in the chain. The stock alternator and voltage regulator are currently in the car. I did not install the alternator yet. It is sitting in my car. I can't verify if the new one is internally regulated.
If the alternator connector looks like this, it's externally regulated. The connector of the internally regulated alternators are inline, not side by side.
If you have your shop manual with you, there may be directions on how to troubleshoot if the regulator is good or bad. Maybe it has points that open and close and need sanding (foggy recall memory).
DonSSDD said
Jul 5, 2022
Rockauto has listings, use their numbers to get one from Napa, Canadian Tire, etc.
Foam lake is just an hour west of Yorkton on the #16 Yellowhead... you could always rejoin the #10 at Fort Qu'Appelle via the #35 junction south that is only 15 minutes to the west of me or take the #6 south at the Dafoe junction that is 45 minutes west of me on the Yellowhead #16.
If time is an issue and if it were a weekend, I could meet you in Yorkton....
So sorry! It was such a crazy hectic drive that I just never had the energy or time to get back to you. But check out this photo of the dealer sticker on the trunk!
Hi everyone,
I'm leaving Montreal tomorrow (July 1) morning. Rolling through Ottawa, North Bay, Sudbury, The Soo, Thunder Bay, Winnipeg, Yorkton, Regina, arriving in Eastend, Saskatchewan.
Front end repairs miraculously done on short notice by Peter at P&R Auto in Montreal. Peter is an amazing human and really extended a kind gesture to get me on the road.
Rear springs are groaning a little as I loaded the car down. Hoping to put 600-700 kms under the wheels each day. I'll try to send some photos along the way. Happy to stop for a coffee if it's not too far off the road.
Thanks to everyone for the wisdom and advice.
Roy in Montreal
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 06:03:47 PM
Good luck and enjoy the road trip.
Foam lake is just an hour west of Yorkton on the #16 Yellowhead... you could always rejoin the #10 at Fort Qu'Appelle via the #35 junction south that is only 15 minutes to the west of me or take the #6 south at the Dafoe junction that is 45 minutes west of me on the Yellowhead #16.
If time is an issue and if it were a weekend, I could meet you in Yorkton....
North Bay.
Had a late start to the trip. Hectic morning. Arrived in North Bay. Dropped my son at his friend's place. Photo of us before leaving Mtl.
Tomorrow I'll be looking for an alignment shop that can fix me up. Hopefully something here or in Sudbury.
The cloudy day made for comfortable driving.
The 250 Chev inline 6 power plant pulled off an impressive 16.5 mpg, with a full load in the trunk and back seat!
Update:
Short version: In need of repairs in Marathon, Ontario. The electric fuel pump was acting up. I think, so is the water pump. Hoping the Napa Auto shop can help me out tomorrow. (not with a water pump, but with a diagnosis and possible an electric fuel pump.)
Have a listen here: vimeo.com/726533370
Fuel pump is electric. PO said he could not get a mechanical one to work properly. He put a relay switch under the dash in the car, so I can open the current to the pump before starting. Once it starts, I turn off the switch. Last night when I was checking the oil, I thought I could hear the pump running, so I went to check the switch. It was off. This morning, my battery was dead. A few times when I went to turn off the ignition, the engine kept running. I had to on/off the fuel pump relay numerous times to get the car to shut off. Those two signs suggested to me a problem. I pulled into Marathon to see if CanTire had a pump. They did not. I replaced the battery as it was on my list anyway. The car seemed to be running okay. So I left for Thunder Bay. Five miles out, the car was starved for fuel and would climb a hill. I turned around and here I am.
Now, I hear an intermittent screech under the hood. See video link in this post.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks
Roy
in Marathon, Ontario.
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 06:03:08 PM
Suspicious wiring with fuel pump is quite certain. Ignition switch, I'll have to take a look. My volt meter also failed on me today.
thanks a lot!
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 07:59:54 PM
Check fan bolts for? sorry, I didn't understand that suggestion. The Alt bearing might explain the sound, but would it also affect the voltage output?
I have a new fan belt I brought along. I could change it out.
yeah, the original factory pump is still installed. I'd prefer it. I'll see how hard it is to get a new electrical fuel pump for now.
thanks so much!
-- Edited by roycross on Sunday 3rd of July 2022 08:35:22 PM
Are you saying the mechanical fuel pump is still installed? If so, you should hear it pumping, even if it's just pumping air.
I'll have a closer listen, but I didn't hear it when I was investigating. My guess is, it didn't work for the previous owner, so he switched over to the electric. It's possible that if I put a working fuel pump in, that it might be fine. Again, the idea of a worn lobe on the cam seems improbable.
I'm in a town with limited resources. I think the CanTire employee said he had an electric fuel pump rated: 4-7 psi. The one currently on the car is 2.5-4 psi. If I'm going to be stuck for a period time could I installed the bigger one and run it for the 300 kms to Thunder Bay?
2. If the mechanical pump is still installed but the fuel lines disconnected, you will definitely hear it. Unless it's diaphram is shot then it might be pretty quiet.
3. The Canadian Tire 4-7 psi fuel pump will be sufficient. The needle & seat in the carburator should be able to hold that pressure.
Installed the new pump. Was not the 4-7 psi one. Found one at Napa. Lots of fuel to the carb. Idled fine. Got out onto the highway and same previous symptoms. Stumbling, and then it stalled. Would not start at all.
Tried a few things. No luck. Someone came by and we checked for spark. 12 volts to the coil, but no spark at the distributor or to the plugs. Pulled a plug to check. Nothing.
Someone else came along from the towing company and who runs an auto service here in town. We pulled the + and - wires off the coil and tested to see if a pulse came from the distributor. Nothing. Suspect the electronic ignition module is finished.
Someone from the highway maintenance yard that I had rolled up to, at the shoulder, came out and helped confirm the diagnosis.
Someone else came along from New Jersey in a mid 70s Beetle. He put a meter across the coil and ascertained that it was good. Not sure what he was doing, so can't explain it.
Someone else came along who was driving to Thunder Bay. He took a photo of the ignition module, and someone he knows has one in Thunder Bay.
I'll have to get the part sent out. I'll know more in the morning.
Additional info:
Voltmeter on my gauge cluster shows about 17 volts. It started spiking intermittently to 17+ volts a few days ago. I changed out the battery, but the spiking continued. I thought the bearing might be going on the alternator and Napa had one in stock. I bought it, but thought I would drop it in if the problem persisted down the road. I never got down the road. The new alternator, not installed in my car, has been the most affordable part of my stop in Marathon.
While investigating the ignition switch, we discovered that one of the fuses was blown out. We popped in another, and it was really charged, sparked a bit and blew the new fuse immediately (albeit not the correct amperage).
So that is worrying.
Oh, I called in for a tow at about 2:00 pm. By 7:45 he still had not shown up. He was in Thunder Bay. Midnight was his best guess. No other trucks within 100 kms. The fellow from the maintenance yard said I could pull my car into his yard and leave it for the night. I called the tow truck company and told them to get it in the morning. The first guy who stopped to help came back, and he pulled me into the yard with his truck.
Crazy day.
Tonnes of kindness. Great for inspiring faith in humanity.
Which fuse blew?
Do you have the stock external voltage regulator and alternator? Maybe it is pumping out 17 volts and that caused your electrical problems? Could be a bad regulator. Is your new alternator internally regulated?
Yes. It has been a great experience. Met lots of great people. It has been a good lesson for me in many ways. One of them is how spoiled I became living in Montreal with any need within arm's reach. And also how to remain calm and not be frustrated by the situation.
I spoke to the previous owner. He purchased the electronic ignition components at his local parts store in Yorkton (in stock!).
He also mentioned the voltage regulator as a possible culprit in the chain. The stock alternator and voltage regulator are currently in the car. I did not install the alternator yet. It is sitting in my car. I can't verify if the new one is internally regulated.
Thanks for checking in!
Hopefully, more updates later today.
Roy in Marathon.
If the alternator connector looks like this, it's externally regulated. The connector of the internally regulated alternators are inline, not side by side.
If you have your shop manual with you, there may be directions on how to troubleshoot if the regulator is good or bad. Maybe it has points that open and close and need sanding (foggy recall memory).
www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1963,biscayne,3.8l+230cid+l6,1324246,electrical,voltage+regulator,4884
So sorry! It was such a crazy hectic drive that I just never had the energy or time to get back to you. But check out this photo of the dealer sticker on the trunk!