One of the reasons I started this site was the fact it's hard to determine where are cars fit in. The Chevy guys shun us because our cars have Pontiac bodies and the Pontiac guys shun us because we have Chevy power trains! I'm curious if any of you have had problems at shows or cruise nights? Do you take your car to Pontiac meets? How are you recieved?
About 12 years ago, I took my 62 Parisienne to the Street Machine Nationals in Hamburg NY.....Its maybe 1/2 over the border from Buffalo.. they didn't know what to think. They wouldn;t believe me when I told them that the SB Chevy under the hood was factory original. Some Pontiac "Guru" actually started giving me grief for ruining a Pontiac. Finally, after showing them the "X" frame did they start to beleve I was telling the truth. On the other forums that I belong to, I get the ........"Is it the original 389?" Crap.
There is a guy in the town I lived in up until last year with a 65 409 Parisienne..........Imagine the crap he must get........
The Chevy people seem to like my Beaumont. It's the Pontiac people that have a problem with it. I took my car to Chevellabration last year and had a blast. there were about 500 Chevelles there and only 2 Beaumonts, my 68 and a very nice 64. James
I think CANADIAN PONTIACS have been and are growing in favour south of the border. Look how many SD Beaumonts have been going to USA and getting big dollar frame off full restos.
USA guys still think 409 Canadian Pontiac fake until they hear the history .
I have shown a Canadian Pontiac 4 times in the US at the POCI convention. I would say it has always been a very positive experience. In 1990 when I pulled up to the hotel i Knasas City with my 65 Acadian, a guy came running over to politely tell me I couldn't show my Nova! Then he took a second look, and said "What is this, anyway???!!!" No problem after that. (And yes, I realize that "technically" it's not a Pontiac, but they are generally considered as such. Same goes for Beaumonts.
__________________
1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
We had 4 Canadian Pontiacs at the annual POCI convention in California in 06. I think people were very confused when they saw the orange engine blocks. Some were curious and wanted to learn more and others just thought it was wrong. Of the 3 cars in popular vote classes we each "won" one of the top 3 prizes. One regret was that only "Pontiac" engined cars were allowed on the drag strip and we were told that the orange blocks didn't qualify.
Rick
__________________
1967 Parisienne 2+2 1967 Grande Parisienne
1967 Laurentian 1967 Strato Chief
Remember, "The Government" only has money confiscated from us.
I'm a founding member of a Chevelle & Beaumont club and I've never had a problem mixing Canadian Pontiac and Chevrolet's (no mater where built) together. People who shun them are ignorant of Canadian Automotive History. Too bad some people are closed minded but then it their loss really.
If I had started a full size car club I would have include both lines (Chevrolet and Pontiac) for god sake there both "B" body cars. When we did start to gain members I had a lot of guys trying to get me to start a full size club as well. Maybe in hind sight I should have. If you ever been on the "ground floor" of getting an organization off the ground you know what fun starting a club is.
Here's my philosophy on the old car hobby (soap box rant mode on).
No matter what the shape of the car, its interior or outward appearance; if you're part of an organization that I belong to or not then, in my option, park beside me and tell me something about your car. I love all types of cars, I'm not just an SD or SS fanatic. I don't just talk to the coupe and convertible owners, I talk to all the car owners no mater what the body style of car. If I see a car that sparks my interest, I'm going to look at that car and hopefully talk to the owner.
Someone tells me at the entrance to a show I'm about to attend sorry the car in front and behind you can come in as they're not presentable. My response is going to be "kiss my @#*!" They are members of my club and if their not welcome then I guess I'm not either. I have done this twice so far. Its amazing how fast people back down when presented with a point of view of "if we can't participate together then we're leaving and we'll let everyone else in line know why we're leaving". Small minded thinking really sets me off.
I find you see very few four door sedans, four door hardtops or station wagons at car shows. God forbide some guy wants to participate at a show and there's a bit of rust on his car or the body panels have some dents. Why you ask, because most shows cater to the coupes and convertibles; the flashier models.
If you allow everyone to participate then the hobby gets stronger. Its not seen as some elitist thing where you have to have spend half of a home mortgage to make your car presentable. If not then the old car hobby its going to wither eventually and die off as no one wants to be constantly told you can't paticipate or feel that way.
If all you see are the done cars at a show, then what does that say to John and Jane old car owner whose car may not be near perfect or perfect. "You can come see all the nice cars at this show but please don't park next to my car." "Yeah we want you to drool over our cars but your's isn't good enough to be in the show." Great steaming piles of BS!!
How does someone new to the hobby ever get to feel like they "belong" and "fit in". Where do they go to learn more about their car? Yes, there's here on the internet, which is good place to start from. Meeting like minded people who are interested in helping you out.
But let's be honest with ourselves we also want to participate in the "real world". To do so means that we have to be "open minded" about mixing Pontiacs & Chevrolets if they have similiar parentage. Its sort of like going to Baskin Robbins and ordering Vanilia ice cream. Nothing wrong with that, but there's such a larger world of choice and experiences out there. Why limit yourself to just one favour or choice and experience.
At car shows that I've done in the last decade and some, Ive talked to owners who've stated the following:
"We came to the show because everyone was welcome, but you're the only one who stopped to talk to us." If that isn't setting off alarm bells in your head, or worse yet you've had the same experiene, remember what that felt like. Did you feel like you were part of a great hobby where people get toether and talk about their cars? Is that how you want others to see you? Is that how you see yourself? I truely think not.
Some of the best experiences and stories I have from participating at car shows have come from meeting and spending time with these folks. I've learned more about all sorts of things from looking at these cars and talking to their owners.
The nicest compliment I ever received from someone came from a member of my own club about nine years ago. We were at a show-n-shine at Soda Jerk's in St Albert, AB. This club member was looking for me to check out this '70 Malibu coupe that arrived about ten minutes earlier. He'd been talking to the owner who was wanting to know more about his car. We finally ran into each other and he introduced me to the owner.
The owner was going on about how his car was nothing special, it's just a Malibu as there was a lot of high money car at the show. My member said the following "Hey don't worry, this guy's into all types of cars. He can find something special about every car he sees."
From that moment on the Malibu owner was at ease as he knew I wasn't about to tear his pride and joy apart. He had some rather rare options on his Malibu which did make the car special after all. Besides I found out this Malibu had always been in the family , he was the third owner and had all the paper work from order form to work orders for work done on the car since new.
You never know who your're talking to and what they bring to the table. Talking and meeting people is how you network to get parts. Gain assistance from others who've already tackled the project your contemplating on your car. Find new friends to drive with to the next show-n-shine the following weekend.
And what sort of investiment did you make? Your time, friendship, interest and a willingness to "spread the wealth" with the knowledge you have about these cars. Doesn't sound like you went to a lot of trouble to me. What do you think the other person gets out of it?
A new friend, an ear to listen when they have a problem, the felling they've been accepted and what a great hobby old cars are. So again, let's be willing to have an open mind when it comes to our cars and the folks who enjoy them. Either we stand together to make the hobby better or we all fall to the elitist platform. When that happens I'll hang up my car keys in disgust.
Soap box rant mode off
Sorry for the length of this post. Its a subject that gets right to my personal beliefs about what I thnk this hobby should be about. People together with a common interest, enjoying each others company with no BS getting in the way.
__________________
Dave Weir
Member #1
Canadian Classic Chevelles & Beaumonts
http://cdnclassics.chevelles.net/
Well said Dave. There is a lot of prejudice at car shows. Perhaps the best time I had at a cruise night was when I drove this: My $1000 barn find 54 Chevy 210 4 door, 6 banger, 3 on the tree with dead paint and (OMG!) some rust. There was always a crowd around the car (much to the chagrin of the restored car guys). People would always say "leave it alone" and "don't restore it" as it had character all it's own. I broke several "rules" with that car and had a blast doing so! Todd
NUMBERS guy!!!!! Well said!!! You wrote down, every thought, I've had about the hobby.. I love all people, and all cars, and I needed to hear, everything you said.. You will make me a better car guy!! I have shunned shows for YEARS, because of the way, I was treated, and I have had some, really nice cars! We need you to post, that type of soap box reminder, ever week! Good for you my Friend! Carl Hicks Clinton Ont..
YOUR DARN RIGHT! You drive, and I'll hold my hand over the tach!! Anytime! that is if you dont mind a unrestored, ratpowered old driver... Hey lets get signs made up, that say; MY CAR IS LIKE ME! NOT PERFECT! lol good night!
Ive been to AtuoFest with two unrestored survivor cars
First one is a '64 Malibu SS two door coupe with original 194 Cu in six cylinder. Everyone tells my buddy no such car was available. He's a class A inter-provincial mechanic who redid all the mechanicals but hasn't touch the body. There's an interesting side story on this car.
Just like your '54 everybody swarms the car when he shows it.
Second is a '65 Beaumont Deluxe I found up in Ignace, Ont. All original paint with original cloth & vinyl interior. All we did to the paint was use the Maguier three step process. The condition of the paint is scary.
The guy with the '64 Malibu SS hauled ass from Ottawa to Ignace to pick it up a week after I saw it. An original '52,000 miles, 230 Cu in 6 cylinder with three speed manuakl transmission. Again only the mechanical side of the car has been restored or fixed.
Great side story on that car as well. I would have bought the car myself but couldn't figure out how to "tie it down to the roof of Malibu and drive 2000 miles home".
Oh yeah, both cars are original Tuxedo Black with red interiors. When they're parked together you can't even get near them.
Pissed off a couple of really nice "muscle cars" owners at AutoFest in 2006.
__________________
Dave Weir
Member #1
Canadian Classic Chevelles & Beaumonts
http://cdnclassics.chevelles.net/
I can't do another 6800 mile round trip road trip again this summer. After doing it four years in a row. Sure, now everyone wants to go to AutoFest. Where were you guys the couple of years ago? Just kidding. At lease I hope you know that I'm kiddging. Say you know I'm kidding Todd, say it!!
Although you're starting to make me think I should do it just one more time... AutoFest is the last weekend in August before Labour Day. Show is put on by the Motor City Car Club of Oshawa.
Web site for the show last year was www,autofestoshawa.com Go there for all the details. I know you'll have a blast, do you think I'd put almost 30,000 miles on my car in four summers if the show wasn't worth the trip.
__________________
Dave Weir
Member #1
Canadian Classic Chevelles & Beaumonts
http://cdnclassics.chevelles.net/
I know you were kidding...or were you?? haha. Of course if you weren't up for the trip, you could always get a cheap WestJet flight and hitch along with one of us Ontarians. We're a good bunch. Really. Were even nicer if you pitch in for gas.
How do I tell my wife.... Honey, do you have plans for the last week of August? No, great I'll see you after labour day I'm going back to Oshawa for AutoFest!
First I told her empatheticly I wouldn't be going back in 2008. Second the guy from Sault Ste Marie will hunt me down. Third, if I'm going to AutoFest I'm driving, end of story.
Its very tempting to join you guys, but my next appearance at AutoFest will be August 2010, after I've also done Power Tour 2010 "the Canadian Invasion" that May/June.
Another side story. How many does that make it today, three?
__________________
Dave Weir
Member #1
Canadian Classic Chevelles & Beaumonts
http://cdnclassics.chevelles.net/
I took my 55 GMC down to syracuse last year for the nationals. i really got a lot of strange looks but was asked mainly "why does it have a chev engine and what does 9300 mean"
One of the reasons I started this site was the fact it's hard to determine where are cars fit in. The Chevy guys shun us because our cars have Pontiac bodies and the Pontiac guys shun us because we have Chevy power trains! I'm curious if any of you have had problems at shows or cruise nights? Do you take your car to Pontiac meets? How are you recieved?
Todd
The reason I don't go to many car shows or cruise-ins is due to the comments made by others. I have realized it's just jealousy from small minded people. I have several different makes, from Cadillac,Dodge,Chev,Pontiac to Porsche but it's always the same. Different crowd, same snide attitude. Some smart a** who knows more about my car than I do.
I have had much discussion with Americans on the whole Candadian automotive scene. They are fascinated that these cars even exist.
I always find a good audience with them, and as a matter of fact, many would like to own one because they are so unique. Last summer at the Fleetwood Cruise In near London, I met friends from the US. The came in a '66 Bonneville and were completely fascinated by any of the Canadian Pontiacs there. At first they did not really look at them until I made a point of the particular cars.
And it goes on with any Canadian Market cars and trucks. If you mention a Frontenac they really give a puzzled look.
I forgot to add, that Australia were the benficiaries of Canadian Pontiacs in CKD form. They were right hand drive, but they used the '62 dash through '67. Also, they came without heaters and were fitted there if needed. They were pretty amateurish.
The Chevrolets used the '65 dash cast in fibreglass. Pretty flimsey and ditto for the heaters.
The Laurentians were all 4-door sedans with 6-cylinder engines and Parisiennes were all 4-door hardtops with 327's.
I have a friend in Tasmania with a '67 Impala Sport Sedan with the fibreglass '65 dash, but it has a 396 under the hood.
I have a few contacts in Australia through my Cadillac boards. They are particularly helpful in describing the "American" cars, that are in reality Canadian cars that have been imported. This because Australia is also a member of the British Commonwealth and they have more attarctive tax structures on goods imported from within the BC.
There have also been a number of Canadian Pontiacs in RHD that were imported to the United Kingdom throughout the 50's and 60's.
