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alternator wiring


please help me install an alternator into my 57 pontiac.rescue this vh last year from under a pine tree. new to restoring. mechanical knowledge- zero(like the leafs playing hockey). A running 283 is in it. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks kirk

my nieghbour gave me a generator out of his 57 chev. dont no if it works.Should i put it in or the alternator.

-- Edited by lolu3eh at 09:58, 2008-04-20

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kirk hargrave


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Heres 2 Kirk,

A generic GM diagram. 64-72 using a Delco Remy externally regulated 10Si Alternator.
2427479011_b2da388c8c_o.jpg

Generic GM, 73-84 using the Delco Remy 12Si Internally regulated alternator.
Imop, the easiest way to add a alternator to a generator car.
If originalty isn't a concern, forget the generator. Go with a alternator. They made millions of these, so getting a good used one should be no problem.
2427478141_0ea03a4661_o.jpg

And here's a link to some good reading on charging systems and the like.
Mad Electrical

The wiring would be relatively easy. Getting the correct brackets could be somewhat of a challenge. There are aftermarket aluminum alternator brackets out there for long or short water pumps, they're about $40 if I remember correctly. If you'd like to know more, let me know.

Cheers, Mark.

-- Edited by cdnpont at 11:43, 2008-04-20

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thanks for the diagram. will get at it this wk. baking a bunny rabbit cake for my granddaughters 1st birthday party today. opps drop a jelly beanbiggrinbiggrin

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kirk hargrave


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If you aren't going to add a pile of accessories (stereo, foglights etc etc) perhaps the easiest method is a one wire alternator. I heard so many cons against using one but I threw caution to the wind and put one on my 54 Chevy. It worked great! It was a 55 amp unit. My only "accessory" was the factory AM radio (worked great!) .There is one very small drawback- you have to rev the engine to about 2000rpm to energize the unit when you first start the car. After that it charges at any RPM. I had a 6 volt system and used a 6 volt alternator.
engine.jpg


Todd

-- Edited by 69Laurentian at 18:13, 2008-04-20

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69Laurentian wrote:

If you aren't going to add a pile of accessories (stereo, foglights etc etc) perhaps the easiest method is a one wire alternator. I heard so many cons against using one but I threw caution to the wind and put one on my 54 Chevy. It worked great! It was a 55 amp unit. My only "accessory" was the factory AM radio (worked great!) .There is one very small drawback- you have to rev the engine to about 2000rpm to energize the unit when you first start the car. After that it charges at any RPM. I had a 6 volt system and used a 6 volt alternator.
engine.jpg


Todd

-- Edited by 69Laurentian at 18:13, 2008-04-20



        So you started it up, and red lined it? lol biggrin



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Nope, but I must say that Stovebolt was one of the best running engines I've ever had. Started right up, not a shake at idle. Great sound with Cherry Bomb mufflers!

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So you were a racer?  Hope the OPP dont read this site...Cherry "bombs" could get you arrested!  especially in Woodstock..

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I'd need a half KM head start if I were going to race in that car. Speed wasn't one of it's virtues!


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69Laurentian wrote:

a one wire alternator. I put one on my 54 Chevy
Todd



Did you have an ammeter in the car? Did it still work? Where did you splice the alternator output wire into the car's wiring harness?

TIA,
Dave

 



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davelacourse wrote:
Did you have an ammeter in the car? Did it still work? Where did you splice the alternator output wire into the car's wiring harness?

TIA,
Dave

 



 Dave, I put the same in my '53 as well as my '67 Pontiacs with the ammeter and they all work fine. Just use the existing power wire and I believe I ran another from either the separate pin on the ignition switch or maybe from the regulator on the firewall that is switched ignition separate from the distributor feed.
 In the meantime, this style of alternator will self ignite the fields to charge with one wire with extra RPM. But you can replace the regulator with the proper one so that it will charge immediately without the extra RPM. This way, you won't have to worry about wiring in the extra wire! 

 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Saturday 28th of March 2009 10:06:45 AM

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I put an internally regulated alternator on my 62 Parisienne in place of the generator. I followed a wiring diagram for a 57 chevy without an ammeter. It works great, puts out 14+ volts and you don't have to rev it to excite the field. But the ammeter does not work (shows discharge) and I don't know enough about it to either make the ammeter work or safely bypass it. I'd be interested if anyone can tell me the best way around this issue.

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i got the alt in but i think its not charging the batt. (going to buy a meter today at church-princess auto) and then ill know. There is two brown wires together that go to the orig. generator and one blue and the power. Now i think the the brown wires are ign. and then it goes to the regulater. Im using the three wire alt from my 79 t/a. I need to not use the orig. regulator now right?? When the car is running the gen. light in the car stayed on, when before it would just go on when you started it. I know this shouldent be hard but i do confuse easily when it comes to wireing!!

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59poncho wrote:

i got the alt in but i think its not charging the batt. (going to buy a meter today at church-princess auto) and then ill know. There is two brown wires together that go to the orig. generator and one blue and the power. Now i think the the brown wires are ign. and then it goes to the regulater. Im using the three wire alt from my 79 t/a. I need to not use the orig. regulator now right?? When the car is running the gen. light in the car stayed on, when before it would just go on when you started it. I know this shouldent be hard but i do confuse easily when it comes to wireing!!



Follow these instruction for a 57 chevy, should be close to your car. It refers to a 20 ga brown wire that was connected to the generator to be connected to the #1 conection on the alternator. This is the wire the goes to ignition and warning lamp. You no longer need your regulator.

http://www.1957-chevrolet-alternator-conversion.com/conversion.html

 



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 And just an extra tid bit--Attach pin #2 to the rear battery stud with the existing battery wire original from the car. This is how they did it in the '80's and up to cut down on excessive wire and to simplify.

AltRewire.jpg?t=1238354148

 

 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Sunday 29th of March 2009 02:16:25 PM

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Beaumont4008 wrote:

59poncho wrote:

i got the alt in but i think its not charging the batt. (going to buy a meter today at church-princess auto) and then ill know. There is two brown wires together that go to the orig. generator and one blue and the power. Now i think the the brown wires are ign. and then it goes to the regulater. Im using the three wire alt from my 79 t/a. I need to not use the orig. regulator now right?? When the car is running the gen. light in the car stayed on, when before it would just go on when you started it. I know this shouldent be hard but i do confuse easily when it comes to wireing!!



Follow these instruction for a 57 chevy, should be close to your car. It refers to a 20 ga brown wire that was connected to the generator to be connected to the #1 conection on the alternator. This is the wire the goes to ignition and warning lamp. You no longer need your regulator.

http://www.1957-chevrolet-alternator-conversion.com/conversion.html

 



Those are the instructions I used & got it hooked up OK and working, but they don't help me to solve the ammeter problem as he Chevy doesn't have one.

 



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gparis7 wrote:

Beaumont4008 wrote:

 

59poncho wrote:

i got the alt in but i think its not charging the batt. (going to buy a meter today at church-princess auto) and then ill know. There is two brown wires together that go to the orig. generator and one blue and the power. Now i think the the brown wires are ign. and then it goes to the regulater. Im using the three wire alt from my 79 t/a. I need to not use the orig. regulator now right?? When the car is running the gen. light in the car stayed on, when before it would just go on when you started it. I know this shouldent be hard but i do confuse easily when it comes to wireing!!



Follow these instruction for a 57 chevy, should be close to your car. It refers to a 20 ga brown wire that was connected to the generator to be connected to the #1 conection on the alternator. This is the wire the goes to ignition and warning lamp. You no longer need your regulator.

http://www.1957-chevrolet-alternator-conversion.com/conversion.html

 



Those are the instructions I used & got it hooked up OK and working, but they don't help me to solve the ammeter problem as he Chevy doesn't have one.

 



Yea those instructions are more for non ampmeter cars as it shows connecting the wire from your alternator bat terminal to the battery for charging. For a ampmeter to work the wire would have to go from the Bat terminal on the alternator to the
neg post on the ampmeter form the positive terminal on the ampmeter to the battery post.


The centre diagram shows a tipical GM ampmeter layout.

 img124.jpg



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Beaumont4008 wrote:


Yea those instructions are more for non ampmeter cars as it shows connecting the wire from your alternator bat terminal to the battery for charging. For a ampmeter to work the wire would have to go from the Bat terminal on the alternator to the
neg post on the ampmeter form the positive terminal on the ampmeter to the battery post.


The centre diagram shows a tipical GM ampmeter layout.

 img124.jpg



Thanks, I have the same problem (ammeter that Chevy does not) - however my poor old eyes cannot see the diagram well enough no do you have a larger version please?

TIA,
Dave

 



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 That is odd that both of your ammeters are not working!! My '53 works fine as well as my '67's. Dumb question, they worked before the swap? Are the leads going to the meter still hooked up? As you know, one lead hooks near the battery and the other is near the alternator...I will get a schematic...............

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 This should help you with your ammeter...I don't know if your cars have fusibles, but something else for you to check...Also check for power at BOTH pins of the meter as, we know, it just measures the difference of current used/current supplied. Is the meter dead?
 Also, I just remembersd, my '66 Strato works fine as well. Sometimes when the battery is low on charge, the meter will almost pin to "C" when I start it up on high idle.................


100_3768.jpg?t=1238419011

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67Poncho wrote:

 This should help you with your ammeter...I don't know if your cars have fusibles, but something else for you to check...Also check for power at BOTH pins of the meter as, we know, it just measures the difference of current used/current supplied. Is the meter dead?
 Also, I just remembersd, my '66 Strato works fine as well. Sometimes when the battery is low on charge, the meter will almost pin to "C" when I start it up on high idle.................


100_3768.jpg?t=1238419011



It's hard to match the above circuit diagram to the 50's cars. The one above shows an alternator already, our generator cars were somewhat different. Among other things, our regulators have 3 terminals, not 4, and ours are A, F and B (don't know how that maps to F, 2, 3, 4).

My 1956 Canadian Pontiac (and I am sure the 55's and 57's also) has wiring circuits that are a BLEND of Chevy and Pontiac.

I have both the US Pontiac and Chevy wiring diagrams, and can compare them. And compare both of them to what is actually in my car (fortunately nobody had ever messed with the original wiring).

When I was tracking down the wiring under the dash, I noted that the accessory fuse panel was the same as Chevy, not Pontiac.

1956 Chevrolet accessory fuse box.jpg

The headlight switch is same as US Pontiac, but the wiring colors are as shown below, a mix of Chevy and Pontiac.

Actual Headlight Switch Wiring.jpg

When I look under my hood, the horn relay and voltage regulator are wired together, just like a Chevrolet:

1956 Chev Volt Reg and Horn Relay.jpg

The 1956 US Pontiacs have them independent, and in fact the US Pontiacs use the current flow BETWEEN these to drive the ammeter (not actual wire colors, I just colored them to highlight the flow):

Pontiac ammeter wiring.jpg

Logically, that cannot be how the Canadian Pontiac ammeter is wired in, since it would never show any flow (the horn relay and volt. reg. being on one circuit as with the Chevy). So some other wiring is used somewhere to make the ammeter work (mine works just fine now, with the original generator and original wiring). I can't be sure, but it may be special Canadian-Pontiac-only underdash wiring, since my all-inclusive (American AND Canadian) Pontiac Parts Catalogue shows "Harness, Ammeter to Starting Switch Wiring" Group 2.525 for Canadian Pontiac models (20 & 22) but NOT for American models (27 & 28) for 55, 56 and 57! (however same parts number for the ammeter itself, all US and CAN models)

I noticed when I had my dash apart and replaced the water temp gauge (which shares a bezel with the ammeter) that there were nice fat wires going to both sides of the ammeter, so I am pretty confident that the wiring in the car can handle whatever current I throw at it.

As an aside, one of the improvements our Pontiacs have over the Chevrolets is that we have full instrumentation, oil pressure, fuel level, water temperature and ammeter, the Chevys had only idiot lights for some of those. One more reason our cars are better than Chevys, eh? biggrin

At this point, I have decided that when I pull the original motor and generator and install the big block with 100-amp (enough juice to power pretty much anything in the future) one-wire alternator, I am going to splice the alternator output wire into the existing wiring harness at the place where the existing generator output wire (the "A" wire) goes in. My theory? The generator output both recharges the battery as needed and is part of the wiring that makes the ammeter work now, so the alternator output will do the same with the same wiring, including whatever wiring goes to/through the ammeter. (The "F" or Field wiring from the generator will be eliminated since all it does is tell the generator how much output is needed, and the new internally-regulated alternator does that all by itself - mine cuts in at 880 rpm so I don't have to worry about revving the engine up to get the alternator to cut in)(also I will throw away the existing voltage regulator)(no I won't, I'll sell it on eBay smile).

But I would be delighted to get additional ideas and information!

Dave



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So your going to splice into the wire coming from your Bat. terminal on the alternator to your battery. That makes sense to me. If you went from alternator to
ammeter to battery would work but if ammeter blows then no charge. Your way would still charge battery if the ammeter blows as alternater still connected to battery.

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Found this in my old swap book, although genaric and old style alternator shows what to do with some of the generator wiring , interesting.


Looks like they connected the regulator bat wires and the heavy arm wire together and then attached other end of arm wire to battery out post on alternator. Feild wire not used. Thats kind of like what you were saying by splicing into existing wiring


img126.jpg

-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Monday 30th of March 2009 12:03:35 PM

-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Monday 30th of March 2009 12:06:11 PM

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When I look under my hood, the horn relay and voltage regulator are wired together, just like a Chevrolet:

I noticed when I had my dash apart and replaced the water temp gauge (which shares a bezel with the ammeter) that there were nice fat wires going to both sides of the ammeter, so I am pretty confident that the wiring in the car can handle whatever current I throw at it.

As an aside, one of the improvements our Pontiacs have over the Chevrolets is that we have full instrumentation, oil pressure, fuel level, water temperature and ammeter, the Chevys had only idiot lights for some of those. One more reason our cars are better than Chevys, eh? biggrin

At this point, I have decided that when I pull the original motor and generator and install the big block with 100-amp (enough juice to power pretty much anything in the future) one-wire alternator, I am going to splice the alternator output wire into the existing wiring harness at the place where the existing generator output wire (the "A" wire) goes in. My theory? The generator output both recharges the battery as needed and is part of the wiring that makes the ammeter work now, so the alternator output will do the same with the same wiring, including whatever wiring goes to/through the ammeter. (The "F" or Field wiring from the generator will be eliminated since all it does is tell the generator how much output is needed, and the new internally-regulated alternator does that all by itself - mine cuts in at 880 rpm so I don't have to worry about revving the engine up to get the alternator to cut in)(also I will throw away the existing voltage regulator)(no I won't, I'll sell it on eBay smile).

But I would be delighted to get additional ideas and information!

Dave



 We are both missing something. Did you chase the 2 large wires from the meter? I have converted all of my 6volt units to 12volt without any problems. That includes my '53 Bel-Air, my '49 Chev 2-Ton and my '51 1-Ton. I used the factory batt wire and used the other to excite the fields....All of them have gauges and all of the ammeters work! I am sure that all I did was to make the F wire live via the ignition switch! 
 And on my '67 Pontiacs, the regulator just has 3 wires as well.  To make  mine work, I just jumped the brown and blue at the regulator and use the blue fron the connector of the original alternator and used it as the terminal 1 wire for the internal alternator. That was it! The ammeter works fine. I will check on my '51 and '53 to see where I got ignition for the terminal 1 wire. 

 



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Is this what you did for your 67?  This is what I was going to use for my 69.





img127.jpg

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Beaumont4008 wrote:

Is this what you did for your 67?  This is what I was going to use for my 69.





img127.jpg



 Yep, that would be very close! The only thing I didn't do is use a diode in the blue wire. Probably should have but did not have any problem of back feeding. Secondly, I didn't jump the red and white at the regulator. I just put terminal 2 direct to the battery stud on the rear of the alternator. I don't think the red wire at the regulator is large enough for the current/voltage produced. Yours being a '69, if you haven't installed the gauge package, would be like my '70 Catalina. But still the same hookup.

 



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