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Post Info TOPIC: 1963 Canadian-built Pontiac Parisienne Safari Factory 409 2X4 bbl 4 speed


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1963 Canadian-built Pontiac Parisienne Safari Factory 409 2X4 bbl 4 speed



Hey guys,.

I came across this listing on the net.  It's a factory 1963 Canadian-built Pontiac Parisienne Safari Factory  409  2X4 bbl   4 speed.  This is one rare beast! ( if it's "actual" as stated).  He's asking $85,000.00! Anyone got a cheque book handy? smile.gif
Sure would be nice to get the cowl tag numbers and photo for the Canadian Pontiac Registry!  Anyone think that's it's actually worth anywhere close to the $85,000.00 UNRESTORED ?! The car is in Florida right now.  Sure would be nice to know the history .,,,on how a dual quad 409 4spd Safari from Neepawa Manitoba made it to Florida!  Lets do some digging for info. Anyone up to contacting the owner and asking for the tag numbers and history?

Anyway, .... Here is the link

http://www.automotivetraveler.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=821&Itemid=345

I've added these photos and the article in case the link gets removed.

The following is from the article:
"""One who contacted me about what might be the rarest muscle car in existence, a one-of-one Canadian built (at the same Oshawa, Ontario plant that currently builds the Camaro) Pontiac Parisienne Safari six-passenger station wagon powered by a 425-horsepower dual quad 409, the same engine immortalized by the Beach Boys song "409."

When I spoke with George Kelly about his Safari the first thing I did was to verify his claim that such a car was indeed built by Pontiac/GM of Canada Limited (because of the trade restrictions at the time, GM Canada built some unique cars, among them the Beaumont which was covered previously on automotivetraveler.com). With the help of the Pontiac Historical Society (PHS) who verified the VIN and a copy of the 1963 Canadian full-line brochure, which clearly shows that such an engine was offered, we know that the car is the real deal. The car was built on 18 June 1963 and shipped the next day to Murray's Garage in Neepawa, Manitoba. (Do any automotivetraveler.com readers live near Neepawa and can verify if there still is a Pontiac dealer in the area, someone who might have additional details on the car?) In a letter dated 24 January 2001to Mr. Kelly, George Zapora, a vintage specialist at GM Canada Limited stated that the car has the same mechanical specifications as the US Chevrolet model 1835 which according to the Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975 is a six-passenger 1963 Impala station wagon. Apparently the Canadian-built Pontiacs were built on the same platform as south-of-the-border-built Bowties.

"I've always looked upon the car as the Mona Lisa of muscle cars," says owner George Kelly. "As with the original Mona Lisa, she is slightly over weight being a long roof, it has a dark complexion (Tuxedo Black paint), and you definitely grin from ear-to-ear as you work your way up through the four gears to the howl of the two wide open AFBs." Former Super Chevy editor Doug Marion told George that to his knowledge no dual quad, 425-horsepower, 4-speed manual 1963 Chevy Impala station wagons were built, making this quite possibly the only such station wagon in existence, either from Pontiac or Chevy. George does note that the engine that is being sold with the car isn't the original, but it's got a history too. It's a date-correct 409 dual quad race motor built by Gordon Marks so it's probably the next best thing to a numbers-matching block.

While its condition can be charitably called rough, it is a complete car with a date-correct dual quad 409 engine. George has an $85,000 asking price on the car and while his wife says the car has to go--they need the space--if he doesn't get his price, he may just restore the car himself. Does any of us have any idea of what a fully restored 409 1963 Pontiac Safari six-passenger station wagon would be worth? Occasionally similar cars surface, like the 1967 Ford Country Squire with a 428 and 4-speed top loader with the buckets and console out of a high line XL model. When they do and are properly documented, they sell for big dollars. As no factory-installed and documented Hemi-equipped B-body station wagon wagons have yet to emerge from some barn, this may very well be the highest horsepower grocery getter on the planet and for some Poncho fan, would represent one of the ultimate Pontiac collectibles.

Contact the seller through automotivetraveler.com. The car is currently located in Florida and George can arrange an in-person inspection and can supply additional documentation, including its Department of the Treasury/United States Customs Service paperwork when the Safari was imported into the United States in 2006. """



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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From September 12th.

I sent a message to the contact in the article but as is usually teh case , no reply.

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Man, talk about bragging rights!

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Poncho Master!

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 Aubrey Bruneau has one of these as well. Although I believe his is a single 4bbl.....
 
http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/my1963parisiennesafari409.html



my63safariapr132006outlooksaskrr720.jpg

my63safari1995interiorfrt.jpg

my63safarijune262006engine409rside640big.jpg

The pics won't post, but you can go to his site, under "current projects" in the left column, and down to "Aubreys Projects" to "Only 1 built....................."

 

 

1964 Pontiac Laurentian 9 Passenger Safari StationWagon

340HP 409 4 speed

043001-1a.jpg

Here is my 1964 9 passenger wagon PROJECT car ! Just as I acquired it. A total of 726 9 passenger wagons were built in 64 ( available in the Laurentian line only ), but only one had a 409 4 speed ! The cut-out roof is courtesy of one of those many "brain-dead" wanna be car enthusiasts who was building a street rod in the 1970's to early 1980's. Far too many rare cars were victimized by these idiots !

This car is going to be restored to a strong "number 2" level. It will ultimately end up as our dry weather family car.

050101-2a.jpg 043001-2a.jpg

This is the cowl tag. If you click on this thumbnail you will be able to read the options. The paint "N" is the Canadian code for "Sunfire Red Metallic", which as you can see, is more of a pink. Of note is the bottom row of digits, and specificaly the "M20" which instantly identifies it as a factory 4 speed car. You can see the factory paint over-spray on the tag.

After being scrubbed down with SOS pads and installing front and rear suspension, this is what the car looks like now. Also has the correct 1964 14 X 6 wide wheels.

64pinkwagshoplr1.jpg 9passwagshoplrqt1.jpg 9passwagshoplf1.jpg

Here is the poor old girl in the shop... parked behind the 400HP Parisienne Safari. Check out the rust free original 1/4 panel !

9passwagfloor1.jpg 9passwagtachmount1.jpg

Interior shots showing the factory hole in the floor for the 4 speed, the tach for the car, and on the right a view showing where the factory tach mounted to the side of the dashboard.

011002-8a.jpg

This a sample of the "dog dish" Pontiac hub caps for this car. I am looking for 2 sets of them.... If you can help, please E mail me.

64laurentianpartscar1.jpg64laurentianpartscarfloorrf1.jpg64laurentianpartscarfloorlfseatmount1.jpg

Here is a parts car that was acquired a while ago. Check out the original floor !

E MAIL

You can joinThe Canadian Pontiac Club... be sure to check out 1964 Pontiac

return to current projects

http://www.bruneauperformance.ca

Copyright © 2001-2006 A Bruneau Performance Ent. All Rights Reserved World Wide.













-- Edited by 67Poncho on Sunday 18th of October 2009 04:46:20 PM

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63 Parisienne Dual quad 409.jpg

63 Parisienne Dual quad 409-2.jpg

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http://blog.cardomain.com/2009/09/11/dual-quad-409-equipped-canadian-pontiac-wagon/      interesting that PHS  got them the info...   I thought they were U.S. only

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Addicted!

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Hmmmmm. Interesting to see that Aubrey indicates his safari wagon was 1 of 1 car built with a 4spd 409 in 1963. 
And now we see 2 of 1 built!

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A Poncho Legend!

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Isn't his a 64?

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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he has a 63 and a 64 ,, he may have sold the 63? not sure.

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I recollect that he sold the 64 Parisienne, which was less motor, but he may have been restoring it for a customer. The 63 was his personal car.

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Addicted!

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The black wagon is a 63.   Aubreys red 1 of 1 safari is also a 63.

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A Poncho Legend!

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I'm confused.

I agree, they are both 63's pictured.

His writeup has big, bold letters saying 64.

???????

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A Poncho Legend!

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I thought this ebay listing might be appropriate in this thread.

64 dual quad 4 speed Impala wagon

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Poncho Master!

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Carl Stevenson wrote:

I thought this ebay listing might be appropriate in this thread.

64 dual quad 4 speed Impala wagon




Quoted from the ad........
"He ordered his car with transistor ignition dual fours, power brakes, power windows, a 62 amp alternator, all horsepower robbing......"

Huh? Since when were TI, dual fours and power brakes "horsepower robbing"?



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Carl Stevenson wrote:

I'm confused.

I agree, they are both 63's pictured.

His writeup has big, bold letters saying 64.

???????



Aubrey had 3  409 4 speed wagons that I am aware of - 1 red 63 Parisienne  that is his personal car; one sunfire red (rose) metallic 64 Parisienne w/o motor & trans that he sold; and one sunfire red 64 9 pass Laurentian missing powertrain, with the whole roof top cut out.

 



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67HEAVEN wrote:

Quoted from the ad........

"He ordered his car with transistor ignition dual fours, power brakes, power windows, a 62 amp alternator, all horsepower robbing......"

Huh? Since when were TI, dual fours and power brakes "horsepower robbing"?


Ha! I hadn't noticed that. I would agree, how could TI and PB take power? And the dual four certainly doesn't!

 



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!BcF4fdwCGk~$(KGrHqMOKjsEq4eyQDboBKy9Sc2KCw~~_12.jpg   

!Bc)4o,!!mk~$(KGrHqEOKkEEq37OR5qpBK18uqSN9w~~_12.jpg  

     
Listed this car recently on ebay but have changed my thinking on it's value.  I have more and better pictures of it but you can only do so much in a dark building.  I have also added more to the description.  When Mr. Billaw drove his '57 Chevy 4d station wagon to Miller Chevrolet in his home town of Atchison Kansas in late spring of '64 to order a new car he had no idea he would be ordering quite possibly the rarest 409 powered car ever built.  He had special ordered his '57 wagon with the optional 270 horsepower dual 4-barrel 283.  It is interesting he ordered a new '64 at the end of the production year.  The '65 model cars would be out in a few months in the fall.  Also, Chevrolet was hard at work on their new 396 cubic inch engine to be offered in the new '65 body style.  But it was untested and would only be available with a single 4-barrel carb.  And the final 2800 409s installed in the new '65 body style to phase out the 409 and give a little more needed time to develop the 396 would also only be available with a single 4-barrel carb.  Perhaps that is why he ordered one of the last dual 4-barrel 409s built.  When Mr. Billaw set down with the salesman he obviously was not interested in street racing.  He ordered his car with transistor ignition dual fours, power brakes, power windows, a 62 amp alternator, all horsepower robbing, plus tinted glass, AM/FM radio, front and rear bumper guards, windshield washers, dual outside mirrors seat belts anf full wheel covers. He ordered it black with red interior.  It was built the first week of June and delivered by Jack Cooper Transport to Miller Chevrolet on June 18th.  I can only imagine how excited Mr. Billaw was when he saw it the first time. It is my opinion he drove it like it was a 340 horse car.  NOTHING has been added.  It still has the original wide steel wheels, radio, exhaust manifolds etc.....stuff that got changed on a lot of 409s.  About 25-30 years ago with only 76,000 miles a valve broke and ended the use of the wagon.  It has not been repaired.  It was sold to a guy who sold it to 409 guru Phil Reed in the mid eighties.  I bought it from Phil in '87. It had the original black paint except for the drivers side rear door which had evidently been hit and repaired.  It was a very solid 23 year old car.  It had some rust in the drivers floor and the bottom of both quarters and the bottom of both front fenders.but otherwise was rust free.  The rocker panels, all other floor pans including the rear pan were rust free.  Even the door jams and tailgate jams were rust free.  The engine was partially disassembled to show the broke valve and what little damage it had done.  The block assembly was still in the car. Not much was known about casting numbers and dates at that time. I put it in my garage and it sat there for about 15 years.  About 7 years ago I took it to Fatman Fabrications here in North Carolina and had the drivers floor and the bottom of both quarters replaced and he did an excellent job. They will need some preparation work before paint since they were not primered.  I had planned on having a body off the frame restoration by a shop that has done several award winning restorations for me. I started taking it apart but did not get very far.   The original tailgate was damaged after removing it but I found another to go with the car.  It will need some metal replaced at the bottom of the tailgate. I have had numerous inquries about selling it over the last 22 years but have turned down some pretty good offers.  I had planned on this being my last restoration.  It is the rarest car I have ever had.  No one I know has ever seen another '64 425 horse wagon.  If there were more built it is probably safe to say they were not optioned out like this car.  And ALL the original parts are with it.  It has the original QP block assembled May 27th '64 one week before the car was built.  It has the original 3361 and 3804 carbs. the 583 heads and as stated before the original exhaust manifolds.  The only thing I have found that is not correct is the transistor distributor.  It has vacuum advance and shouldn't.  I expect when the original distributor went bad this was what was available as a replacement.  It also does not have the correct radiator.This car needs a complete restoration but is an exceptional car to do.  If you want to restore all the original parts instead of replacing them you have that option.  I truly believe this car will sell for $250,000.00-$350,000.00 restored, possibly more at Barrett-Jackson..  We have all seen what rare one-of-a-kind ultimate performance cars sell for there.  If you have any questions you can email me or call me on

-- Edited by 427carl on Monday 19th of October 2009 08:37:24 AM

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A Poncho Legend!

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How about a "poor mans" choice?    Western impala wagon  396 4 speed with all parts to restore   15g  in Canada already  disbelief

735 total wagons  how many were 396 4 speed??????????

Rare 65 Wagon.jpg

66 396 BIG BLOCK.JPG

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Poncho Master!

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73SC wrote:







From September 12th.

I sent a message to the contact in the article but as is usually teh case , no reply.







Car has been for sale for years, I think he is just fishing.


 



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Hillar

1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
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A Poncho Legend!

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From September 12th.

I sent a message to the contact in the article but as is usually teh case , no reply.







Car has been for sale for years, I think he is just fishing.


 



I think he is just fishing. confuse  He a fisherman?   is this a fish story?  wow 

 



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Poncho Master!

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427carl wrote:







 




 











From September 12th.

I sent a message to the contact in the article but as is usually teh case , no reply.











Car has been for sale for years, I think he is just fishing.




 







I think he is just fishing. confuse  He a fisherman?   is this a fish story?  wow 



 


 










 Looking to hook a big "_______________" you fill in. wink



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Hillar

1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
-and a bunch of other muscle cars...


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I think he is just fishing. confuse  He a fisherman?   is this a fish story?  wow 


 Looking to hook a big "_______________" you fill in. wink


     Gotch you       SUCKER FISH

 



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What's a car worth? 

I agree.  Guys like this who are asking an astronomical price, don't really want to sell.  If in fact they've checked the numbers and it is an actual 1 of  a few ,... they think it's worth a fortune.   In this case ,.. he's about $55,000.00 over priced.  So really ,.. more than likely,... he does not want to sell,... and like someone mentioned ,.. he could be fishing for suckers.  What will probably happen,... one day it will be sold on an estate sale.  There seems to be a common trait among most (NOT all) owners of 409 cars and engines ,... they're pack-rats who don't part with anything.  The beach boys are largely to blame for what's happened to the 409 hoarding phenomenon.   You'd swear GM paid them royalties of some kind!

What a rare car might "really" be worth is more dependent on people than many would think.
1) If the original owner kept ALL the original paperwork and passed it on to the subsequent owners.  Not because of added "value",.. but because it lends a human element to an otherwise simple shiny piece of metal.
2) If there is some kind of story connected with it,.. like the Grand Prix listed on this forum that was officially used for visiting Russians in the Canadian embassy.  That's added "value".
3) Was the car kept in reasonable condition and is it intact with all it's original parts?  The car doesn't have to be a show car,.. but,... when you see aluminum pop riveted to the back end and bondo cracks along the side,.. I'm sorry ,... don't plan that addition to the house with $85K that you think the car is worth.  In my opinion,.. that Grand Prix that was used for Russian dignitaries in Canada would be a much more worth while purchase if it went up for sale.

So really,.. this guy with the 63 409 wagon does not want to sell.

Only thing would be nice,. to have some pics and have the cowl tag numbers for reference.   For $85K ,.. he can keep the car.,,, and his Beach boys 45s.  Just give us a few more pics.

-- Edited by 64 Hard Top on Monday 19th of October 2009 06:04:47 PM

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And to continue your thoughts....

The sad part is, restore it as it deserves and it would never be driveable. Too risky. Sorry, but I could not own a car like that. For that matter, at that price, I never will anyway so no need to worry.

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63/64s are my favs, id make it a nice presentable driver and take

it out on nice days and check myself out in the reflections of store front

windows. its only a car and thats what its for. I know a 100 point

resto would be nice , but too expensive and the alternative is another

40 years languishing un done and collecting dust in a garage, and that

is at least as bad or worse then a nice weekend cruiser level resto.

old cars have souls and are sad to never be driven


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