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Post Info TOPIC: Wide track vs. Impala chassis


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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RE: Wide track vs. Impala chassis


Well that sure muddies the water.



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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 

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A Poncho Legend!

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Can you imagine Chevrolet running an ad with a comparison???!!! So much for Wide Tracking Pontiacs...

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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This turned out to be a great topic, thanks for breaking it loose Carl from the NY Times thread. We shouldn't really be surprised that Wide Track is just a slogan, after all Jim Wangers was doing the advertsing in '59, just another example of his trickery in pulling the wool over the eyes of the American (and Canadian) public.



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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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dualquadpete wrote:

If you put this " so called" Cdn. wide track side by side with it's American cousin I'll bet the diff. would stand out, maybe not as much as earlier Ponchos & Chevy's that look like they are going to fall over, the wheels are in so far on 1/4 panels!!


 I'd like to park my '64 next to your '64 and see the simularities/differences.



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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



A Poncho Legend!

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73SC wrote:

This turned out to be a great topic, thanks for breaking it loose Carl from the NY Times thread. We shouldn't really be surprised that Wide Track is just a slogan, after all Jim Wangers was doing the advertsing in '59, just another example of his trickery in pulling the wool over the eyes of the American (and Canadian) public.





I have to admit to finding this whole thing quite interesting too!

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Pontiacanada wrote:
dualquadpete wrote:

If you put this " so called" Cdn. wide track side by side with it's American cousin I'll bet the diff. would stand out, maybe not as much as earlier Ponchos & Chevy's that look like they are going to fall over, the wheels are in so far on 1/4 panels!!


 I'd like to park my '64 next to your '64 and see the simularities/differences.


 Darryl, you would not believe the difference when "side by each. Bye"  heres some # for 63 & 64 Us Pontiacs. 1963 was 62.5" frt. & 64" rear  & 1964 was 63 frt. & 64 " rear all models!!! I don't have any comparison #'s for Chevy. but I'm sure somebodt here will????  "wide track dualquadpete!!!



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From what I can see from sales brochures canadian and U.S. from 59 to 64, canadian cars were tracking at 60.3 front and 62.5 back same as chevy. The U.S. cars were tracking at 62.5 front and 64 rear. Big difference. From 65 to 67 Canadain cars tracking at 62.5 front and 62.4 rear also same as chevy. U.S. cars tracking at 63 front and 64 rear. Canadian pontiacs and chevy cars catching up to the front tracking . Only 1/2 in. difference. By 68 and 69 The Canadian pontiac passed them in the front tracking by 1/2 in.  63.5 front and 63.4 rear  U.S. cars 63 front and 64 rear. Interesting for sure.

 

As a side note 68 to 69 chevy remained  the same 62.5 front and 62.4 rear.  Looks like 68 and 69 was the  push in Canada for the Wide track angle for Pontiac.



-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Friday 31st of August 2012 02:36:07 PM

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Pontiacanada wrote:

 I'd like to park my '64 next to your '64 and see the simularities/differences.


 Magician40, Brian and Doug Williams did just that at Chris Pointons place last month. I wasn't there but Brian tells me the Bonneville trunk was measured to be 2 feet longer. Brian also mentioned that his 4 speed 300 HP 327 was quicker than the tri power 389 Bonneville, of course that isn't a surprise since the CS has a superior power to weight ratio.



-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 31st of August 2012 08:41:35 PM

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Ray White, Toronto ON

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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"GEARS" Ray, it all depends on "GEARS" the Bonniville likely had 2:67 ot 2:87'S as they were the "norm' for the highway cruisers & would make it a "SLUG" !!! When I had the 3:42's in the Catalina it was a totally diff. performance vehicle. I hauled them out when we went to POCI in S. C [2005] & went hwy. gears, not as much "fun" but much better in the MPG. dept. Sold those gears as I didn't want to "tempt" myself to "change the pot" back again!!!

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Yes no doubt but it matters not when you foot is on the floor and the lowly Canadian is getting away.



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Ray White, Toronto ON

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Ya!! When you see your competitors Tail lights, "your done" but you'd likely say "if I had more gear" or "I'll bet I can pass him, when he tops out at 80 or 90MPH & I'm good to bury the needle!!!

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I can only please one person a day, today is not your day!!! Tomorrow isn't looking  good either.   !!!!!!!! BLACKSTOCK Ont.



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In Owen Sound at Chris's BBQ. Doug and I (parked side by side) compared his 64 U.S. Bonny to my Canadian 64cs. There where so many differences i could not list them, Dougs's car is definitely wider, longer, body and track. The trunk interior is nearly 2 f.t. deeper. Wheels are 5" centres so they will not bolt on a Canadian car. When I had my 409 64cs in 64 it came with 800x14 tires and 14" stationwagon width steel wheels and cs hubcaps.
Brian

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I can't lay my hands on the data books right now but what you will find in comparing the track widths of the 60s Canadian and US Pontiacs is a radical differnce in track width on the 61-64s because the Canadian Pontiacs were on a much narrower Chevy x frame whle the bodies had roughly the same dimensions as the American cars. There's something like 3 - 4 inches in the difference. On the 65-70 cars there is much less difference as the track width for the full size Chevy in those years was similar to that of the US Pontiacs. As I recall, in 68 and 69 the widths were even closer as the standard rim width on the Canadian Pontiacs in those 2 years was 14 by 6 (they used the statiion wagon wheels on all base series cars) vs 14 by 5 on the Chevys. 



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RAJ REDDY


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i used to love beating up on new stangs and vettes in a 4000thosand plus boat when she was younger, buring the needle is not an issue its stopping power



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Poncho Master!

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If it helps, my 64cs 409 came with 14" station wagon wheels from the factory, back in 1964. It even had hubcaps covering them up. I did not order them it came with them.
Brian

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I remember getting the deeper "station wagon" wheels combing thru the junkyard, painting them black and slappin on a set on Baby Moons to more than one Pontiac & Chev. The Poncho's still always looked too "small" The track just didn't look right until I put on a set of '15 x6 Chrome Reverse rims on. I tried putting on a Cadillac rim on my 65 but different bolt pattern.
The 15x8 Chev Rallye rims did a good job, but they looked too Chevy too me....

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Magician40 wrote:

If it helps, my 64cs 409 came with 14" station wagon wheels from the factory, back in 1964. It even had hubcaps covering them up. I did not order them it came with them.


 That's what I'm in the middle of putting on my '63 Impala. 14" x 6". In the Impala world they call them "409 wheels" because they were a standard option on 409 cars starting in '63. They are actually station wagon wheels.



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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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Beaumont4008 wrote:

This is fro the 68 U.S. brochure and looks like our Canadian pontiacs for 68 have a 1/2 in. wider track in the front than the U.s versions.  But about 1/2 in. smaller in the rear.

 

1968 Pontiac Prestige-56.jpg

 I am pretty sure the actual track width of the US car was wider backing plate to backing plate, with part of the increased  track on the 68 - 69 Canadian Pontiacs being reflected in the standard equipment wider 14 by 6 station wagon wheels with a bit deeper positive offset, accounting for an inch more of width as compared to the lower offset wheels on the US cars.  



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eeluddy wrote:

I remember getting the deeper "station wagon" wheels combing thru the junkyard, painting them black and slappin on a set on Baby Moons to more than one Pontiac & Chev. The Poncho's still always looked too "small" The track just didn't look right until I put on a set of '15 x6 Chrome Reverse rims on. I tried putting on a Cadillac rim on my 65 but different bolt pattern.
The 15x8 Chev Rallye rims did a good job, but they looked too Chevy too me....


When you could still find them readily I picked up a number of the deep 14 by 6 wheels, quite few pulled from abandoned 68 or 69 full size Pontiacs and mid to late 60s Chevy and Pontiac wagons. There are no more to found now though - all the abondoned cars around here were crushed in the 80s and early 90s. 



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Thought I'd refresh this thread,

The US cars were increased to 64" in front in 69 (rear stayed at 64").

Just looking at 63-64 Canadian and US Pontiacs there is a huge difference. By 69 I find they look like they have similar track but the American cars look meatier because of tire sizing, Canadian cars had 14" rims versus 15" and standard tires in Canada were 8.25 versus 8.55 or 8.85 on US cars.

When I get my 69 2+2 I'm going to do some major measuring against my 69 Catalina.

BTW, GM sometimes simply fibbed about dimensions, for example;

The rear track of 68-72 LeMans and GTO is listed as 60" while the same year skylarks and Cutlasses are listed as 59". Odd since they all have identical differentials and the same standard 14"x6" rim. I measured several different cars and they are all 59" to the center of the rim (track).

The 69 GP supposedly had a 62" track versus the GTO at 61". You could argue that this was because the GP used a 7" rim (not exactly true because without optional power steering they had the same 6" rim) and yes the offset of the 7" rim would increase track by 1" but then why was the rear unchanged?



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11 1969 American Pontiacs

and a 1969 Canadian 2+2



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got this from old ride http://www.oldride.com/library/1960_pontiac_ventura.html

 

There was an older guy around the corner that had one. a two door hard top, 389.2barrel .

It was beige...

 

as for the Canadian Pontiacs, the frame fits under my 66 impala.ss.I'm in the works of putting a Posi in mine.

with 3.08 gears. and its just as wide as the 3 link that  was in it with 2.73s  and a open diff.

 

original 327 car built in Texas...

 

the thing that was smart about GM Canada, was they made two different car off one platform.

The quality of the engines and rear end made here in St. Catharines was second to none.

But bottom line it was a impala under the Canadian Pontiac. Or a Canadian Pontiac under a impala.

I think a 66 Parisian, with a 427, 4 speed, 12bolt posi...would blow a lot of or nabour minds. 

 

I saw a 2+2, this it was a 69, 427, 4 speed/ 1 of 400 something...and wow!.

Wide track or not. Think not...what a beast.

there are a lot of differences ..\take a 55 be lair..even the paint, antenna, was different than the American version.

The generators had a green tag on there generator's instead of read.

All these thing are not taken into consideration when restored..

The Canadian Chevelle, the Beaumont, I saw one , 68, with a factory 396,WoW.

My Favorite Pontiac is the 66 Parisian...327, Power Glide...Great cruiser...

 

There was no wide trac built in Canada..ust wider rims

 

 

 



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Hi I am new to your forum I have a 68 Pariesene convertible with the real wide trac chassie the best way to tell if its a real wide trac or the American version is a Canadian car is the real with a 29.4 center link American is 25 inch's.. most American cars had diferent control arms and diferent offset wheels.


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now the million dollar question where can you buy or find the 1968 center link that's the 29.4 inch's wide there is no listing at the local parts store.

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muddy wrote:

now the million dollar question where can you buy or find the 1968 center link that's the 29.4 inch's wide there is no listing at the local parts store.


The center link is available from Rare Parts.  Go to www.rareparts.com  Their part # 25794 for $144.54 US.   You can also search that part # on ebay, I see someone selling one for $135.99 US.



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70 2+2 convertible
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70 Parisienne hardtop
72 GMC Sierra

 

 

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