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Quebec VIN plate on door jamb


Hi,

I was wondering if anybody can share some knowledge about the VIN tag that is riveted to the door jamb on some Canadian cars that were sold in Quebec.

I dont know if its factory, dealer, SAAQ (Socitété Assurance Automobile du Québec)... The complete serial is stamped on it, along with another serial I know nothing about.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciate. This is a 72 GTO built in Oshawa.

Thanks

 



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Just one thing that needs too be made clear is that no GTO's were built in Canada in 1972. LeMans were built in Ste. Therese that year but no GTO's at all. The only years that GTO's were ever built in Oshawa were 1970 and 1973. 

I can't help on the extra Quebec tag though. Would be nice to get GMVVS documentation on the car, since the details you have been provided are all wrong, that would help straighten out where the car was built and even which model it is. 



-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 09:37:10 AM

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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

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I wonder if at one time the car may have had VIN tag issues, as in stolen and recovered or something like that.

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Not all is kosher with that car.That looks to be a vin # issued from the ssaq of Quebec... stolen - no vin tag ect.

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MescaBug wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody can share some knowledge about the VIN tag that is riveted to the door jamb on some Canadian cars that were sold in Quebec.

I dont know if its factory, dealer, SAAQ (Socitété Assurance Automobile du Québec)... The complete serial is stamped on it, along with another serial I know nothing about.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciate. This is a 72 GTO built in Oshawa.

Thanks

 

 


The SAAQ adds tags to vehicles in certain cases: if the original tag was lost, stolen or destroyed; if the vehicle was put into storage prior to June 29, 1987 and put back on the road more recently; if the vehicle was modified intensely or custom made (clone or "fabrication artesanale" as the SAAQ labels it.) There's a link in French only about this tag: 

http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/documents/documents_pdf/dossiers_speciaux/html/veh_modif_artisan.html

 

It's possible that the car wasn't originally a GTO but was modified to be one but if you can get more details from GM like 73SC suggested that would help.

 

Cheers,

 

Leo

 

 



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Leo2+2 wrote:
MescaBug wrote:

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody can share some knowledge about the VIN tag that is riveted to the door jamb on some Canadian cars that were sold in Quebec.

I dont know if its factory, dealer, SAAQ (Socitété Assurance Automobile du Québec)... The complete serial is stamped on it, along with another serial I know nothing about.

 

Any information would be greatly appreciate. This is a 72 GTO built in Oshawa.

Thanks

 

 


The SAAQ adds tags to vehicles in certain cases: if the original tag was lost, stolen or destroyed; if the vehicle was put into storage prior to June 29, 1987 and put back on the road more recently; if the vehicle was modified intensely or custom made (clone or "fabrication artesanale" as the SAAQ labels it.) There's a link in French only about this tag: 

http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/documents/documents_pdf/dossiers_speciaux/html/veh_modif_artisan.html

 

It's possible that the car wasn't originally a GTO but was modified to be one but if you can get more details from GM like 73SC suggested that would help.

 

Cheers,

 

Leo

 

 


 agreed - province of Quebec reassigned v.i.n.



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Hey Mescabug,

Post us the VIN except the last 6 digits that way we can tell you what the VIN says the car is and where it was built but the car can't be identified.



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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

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65post wrote:

Not all is kosher with that car.That looks to be a vin # issued from the ssaq of Quebec... stolen - no vin tag ect.


How can you say that without even knowing anything about the car and its history? The car is a LeMans with the GTO front end. I should have mentionned LeMans, I'm so used to say GTO ;)

We have all the original paperwork and GM Canada invoice (confirmed from George Zapora). Partial VIN on the frame rails matches the VIN tag. We couldnt find any partial VIN behind the heater box. The paint is not original (was Springfield Green) and bench seat (A52) replaced by bucket seats (A51).

It is an early 72 car built and delivered in October 71 at Automobiles de Montreal Ouest LTD. That place is still operating, I contacted the owner, but unfortunately, they dont have any paperwork about the car...

We've had this car for quite some time,  and always wondered about that VIN plate on the door jamb.



-- Edited by MescaBug on Thursday 18th of September 2014 03:01:24 PM



-- Edited by MescaBug on Thursday 18th of September 2014 03:03:10 PM

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Leo2+2 wrote:
 if the vehicle was put into storage prior to June 29, 1987 and put back on the road more recently;
You got that right. Car was stored in 1978 and put back on the road sometimes late 80's after a complete resto, including the addition of the GTO front end. I have the history papers from the SAAQ.
That would explain the tag on the door jamb I guess.


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Forgot to ask..

Any idea of the the other number on the tag?

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NOS


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checked today; the grain of the insert material is not correct. Looks more late 60"s maybe Malibu 300 ? That is a heat seal pattern. GTO never had any heat seal ed patterns. Correct grain for 72 GTO inserts would be 'Elk Grain

 

Dale @ NOS



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I came here with hope of learning more about a door jamb tag, not to get a thorough inspection of the car and whats correct or not. I do appreciate the comments, but please, is it possible to stick to the main subject?

The rear seat was temporary while the original seat was being redone. And by the way, that's the rear seat from my 69 Cutlass convertible.

That picture is over 6 years old...



-- Edited by MescaBug on Thursday 18th of September 2014 04:51:57 PM

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I am reading Dale's post differently I guess. I took it as him trying to help you decipher exactly what you have there (Lemans vs. GTO) As far as the other number goes, it would make sense it's some kind of file number that has been opened for your car, possibly a police report if it is a stolen/recovered vehicle? All speculation on my part but it's certainly possible.

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You are absolutely right. I do hope that my comment didnt sound rude or anything. That wasnt my intentions at all. Ive had this car for a while, been in the Pontiac business for 30+ years, owned a dozen A and F bodies. I know my cars. But didnt know anything about that tag!

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If you read the link and click english, the tag indicates this vehicle has been altered with aftermarket modifications. This can be a simple thing like 15" wheels instead of 14".  The tag indicates that the modification fall within the guidelines.



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I am assuming Quebec is different than Manitoba. Here they remove the original VIN tag (from what I hear) and just reassign a special Manitoba VIN to the car. Frustrating when that happens on a classic car because all records of the original VIN are gone and there's no way to document it with GM Vintage.

Out of curiosity, what does the paperwork for the car show? Original VIN, new VIN or both?

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This is an interesting car then. If it is a 1972 and was made in Oshawa that is something in itself. We have never encountered an Oshawa built 72 LeMans before.  Anyone ever encounter an Oshawa built 72 LeMans before?

Click HERE for VIN decoder for LeMans. 1972 does not even list Oshawa as a plant that produced the car. 



-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 18th of September 2014 06:37:53 PM

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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

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I will post the GM Of Canada invoice tomorrow morning, as I dont have access to a scanner right now.

Oshawa did built A-Bodies cars in 72. Here is the official VIN Data published by GM in 1972. As you can see, Oshawa is Assembly Plant #1. The VIN of my car is assembly plant #1, and was confirmed by George. I know where to locate another 72 LeMans that was built in Oshawa. If both cars had wrong VIN's, George wouldnt have been able to pull out the information from the archives.

This document also shows the Chevrolet engines that were installed in Pontiac cars. Most US Pontiac websites wont even publish the Canadian plants and Chevy engine codes. Lack of information or interest, we dont know.

I also have the complete 1971-1972 production numbers by cars, and by order sheet options if someone's interested in those documents. And half a ton of official GM/Pontiac documentation as well smile



-- Edited by MescaBug on Thursday 18th of September 2014 07:37:24 PM

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By all means, post away!

There is nothing better than seeing GM documentation about unique Canadian Pontiac stuff.

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NOS


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NOS wrote:

checked today; the grain of the insert material is not correct. Looks more late 60"s maybe Malibu 300 ? That is a heat seal pattern. GTO never had any heat seal ed patterns. Correct grain for 72 GTO inserts would be 'Elk Grain

 

Dale @ NOS


wasn't trying to show any disrespect. Just stating what I thought was not correct

Dale @ NOS



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My 72 Lemans is Oshawa built Ray.

image.jpg



-- Edited by unclebernie on Thursday 18th of September 2014 08:36:56 PM

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Dale; didnt mean any disrespect at all either. Just wanted to keep the thread in the right direction. Glad to see it has gathered some attention. Its a pleasure to share some knowledge with other Canadian Pontiac guys ;)

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It has been a great learning thread. One thing I learned after signing up on Canadian Poncho, and it would be that I didn't know nuttin' about Canadian Pontiacs even though I thought I did! This thread is more proof...

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There you go, learned something new today.



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1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

Tweet me @BigRaySays






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Documentation from GM Canada. I blacked out some information for security purposes.

As you can see, its an early car for the 72 production. Especially for Oshawa, which was a low volume plant. The "Number Produced For Sale in Canada" is misleading. It means the total of cars produced for the Canadian market across the entire Pontiac assembly plants, including the US plants. Not just Oshawa.

That means we had +- 5900 LeMans/GTO roaming our streets in 71 and up.

A little bit of history about the car; was nice when I bought it, but the previous resto was done sometimes in the 80's and it was missing a few things here and there. Most of the stuff was in the trunk. I guess they didnt bother putting everything back together.. The VIN tag was painted/bondo'ed' over, I thought at first it was missing when looking thru the windshield. Previous owner had brown bucket seats installed... Didnt look right with the black interior. I used a set of black buckets and rear seat from the Cutlass.

It is now a fully optionned GTO; T41 Endura front end, date correct 400 (with 7K3 heads)/TH400 drivetrain and accessories, front power disc brakes.



-- Edited by MescaBug on Friday 19th of September 2014 07:39:59 AM

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