The 2+2 I'm chasing is a 1969 F41 car, and I just realized that I've NEVER seen another. Of all the GM documented cars I have on file (more than a dozen highly optioned units) none of them have it.
So far as I can tell, it comes down to the same front swaybar as F40, an added rear swaybar, and stiffer springs. There may be other pieces.
I think F40 starts bascially with station wagon suspension and then F41 builds on that. I did read this about the panhard bar:
"On the F40 suspension(and on wagons), the right end is the same small size as the left end, so the rubber bushing is smaller, so there's less deflection than the standard bar's larger bushing."
Has anyone seen an F41 car before? Any driving impressions? The only F41 cars I can find are US Impalas,!
-- Edited by davepl on Tuesday 13th of December 2016 01:50:29 PM
One thing that's different according to the shop manual
Is the rear control arm bushings.
They are larger on one end and have to be bolted into the proper set of holes.
I have no personal experience of this but I have read this in the manual and when ordering parts from Hubbard impala they ask about this difference.
At least for a b body 67.
Mine is listed as an M41 car, however, there was no rear sway bar. I have the larger front bar, stiffer springs all the way around, and a panhard bar with identical size ends. I added a correct rear sway bar last year.
I had a 69 Impala 427 sport coupe with the F41. (Canadian documents too ) and a US built 69 Biscayne with it as well . I've also parted out a few that had it too ( all big block cars )
Rather rare for 69 , as there were only 1572 B bodies that had it from the factory . ( Found that figure online years ago )
GTODrive, the F41 option includes a rear sway bar. Any idea what happened to yours, or why it doesn't have it? Does it look like it ever had it?
And I think the F41 front bar is no larger than the F40 bar, but it's larger than the base bar... which is I think what you meant anyway, just want to be clear.
GTODrive, the F41 option includes a rear sway bar. Any idea what happened to yours, or why it doesn't have it? Does it look like it ever had it?
And I think the F41 front bar is no larger than the F40 bar, but it's larger than the base bar... which is I think what you meant anyway, just want to be clear.
The car never came with the rear bar and yes, the front bar is larger than the base. I think the documentation is in error and should be F40.
It could be a lookup error, but the "Firm Ride and Handling" description does go with the F41 option specifically (so not a simple typo). But anything is possible on these builds!
-- Edited by davepl on Wednesday 14th of December 2016 12:23:24 PM
There was a 69 Impala SS427 Custom Coupe in my hometown that I remember from practically new until 1977. It had a rear stabilizer (F41) and as I understand, 1969 was the only year of Impala SS427 that could have come with either F40 (no rear bar) or F41 suspension with front & rear bars.
Offhand I don't remember seeing any 69 Pontiac with F41 (I'd certainly ordered it if I could go back in time), but I remember a member here (Doug) that goes by the handle 427strato. He bought new a 1968 Strato Chief 2-door sedan with F41 Special Purpose Suspension, manual steering, manual drum brakes, L36 427, M20 4-speed, I think he said 3.73:1 rear gears (3.31:1 were standard), Positraction, AM radio, U75 Power Rear Antenna, A01 Tinted Glass all-around. He said, "it wasn't Verdoro Green", but it may have been Jade Gold or Nightshade Green.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
I have two B bodies with factory F41 installations - both 68 Chevrolets. My 69 Parisienne 427 sport coupe - for which I have the GM Canada documents - was heavily optioned but did not have F40 or F41 when purchased, and was also delivered with drum brakes. Somewhere along the line a previous owner added a correct rear sway bar, upgraded rear springs and a 3.42 posi unit. I subsequently added front disc brakes and a 15/16ths F40 front sway bar. I have seen a highly optioned 66 Pontiac Custom Sport that was delivered with a 283 4 speed, 12 bolt rear end and F41 suspension as well as tinted glass and power windows including vents, but that is the only Pontiac I've ever seen with F41. I have however seen many Pontiacs with the F40 equipment.
My 2+2 has the F40 and it has the 15/16th front bar. I noticed that the Canadian title was "Heavy Duty front and rear suspension" and the car has its original springs. Even after 48 years it sits higher than a standard big GM would have sat new. US Pontiacs also have the F40 option but they call it "Springs and Shocks, Heavy Load" which may be a hint to the factory intent of F40 (trailering and or encyclopedia salesmen who didn't want their car to bottom out). The US price of F40 was only $6.32 and the sway bar size didn't change.
F41 was probably much more expensive if it included a rear bar (there was no F41 in US models, the equivalent was Y96, "Ride & Handling Package" which came with a bigger bar but no rear bar for $9.48).
What is the diameter of the standard suspension front bar in Canadian models? In the US it was 3/4" standard and 7/8" with Y96.
My F40 car measures with a micrometer to very close to 1" with power coat and irregularities, so it's probably 15/16". Don't know standard size, sorry!
Odd that no rear bar was available in the US at any price. Why would Chevy offer something Pontiac didn't have?
Supposedly DeLorean didn't like them one bit. Makes sense given that in 69 even Buick offered them. In 70 they were used on the 70 GTO and the 70 TA but Delorean left during the 69 model run so makes sense.
Pontiac actually offered a rear bar from 65 on but only as a dealer option and only for fullsize Police cars. It cost about $160 in 1969 dollars! but included boxed lower arms and I believe reinforced upper control arms.
Part of the family dynamic at GM was that while chevy was the bottom peg on the family totem pole from a market position point of view they had special treatment in certain areas, like the Corvette and with specific small things like the 4 speaker 4 way stereos that only Chevy had for example. Since they were the biggest seller they were also on top of the totem pole from the point of view of importance so most GM Presidents were GM of Chevy as the last step to being President of GM
The 2+2 I'm chasing is a 1969 F41 car, and I just realized that I've NEVER seen another. Of all the GM documented cars I have on file (more than a dozen highly optioned units) none of them have it.
So far as I can tell, it comes down to the same front swaybar as F40, an added rear swaybar, and stiffer springs. There may be other pieces.
I think F40 starts bascially with station wagon suspension and then F41 builds on that. I did read this about the panhard bar:
"On the F40 suspension(and on wagons), the right end is the same small size as the left end, so the rubber bushing is smaller, so there's less deflection than the standard bar's larger bushing."
Has anyone seen an F41 car before? Any driving impressions? The only F41 cars I can find are US Impalas,!
Heres a conversation from the internet One person has a L72 M21 F41 and 2 other F41's cool eh?
The Biscayne fender side emblems are #3928469, and are unique to 68/69. (quite hard to find) The front marker lights are the same as all other full size pass models designating the engine size. If the vehicle was a 6 cyl, the there was just the light bezel only with no numbers as Strokersix mentions above..
HOWMAC 69 Biscayne 2 dr sedan L72 M22 F41 68 Biscayne 2 dr sedan L35 M20 F41( project) 69 SS427 L72 M21 F41 (project) 66 C10 Fleetside - original
If it's the dark blue one, which is a beautiful car, I think it was an Oshawa car also, so fully documentable (to make up a word) through Canada! Gosh I love Canadian-built cars and their documentation... though fortunately in the US now you can document Pontiacs at least.
I remember one time seeing an Impala or Caprice late 80's American and it actually had the neatest "F41" insignias on the front fenders. I have always thought that they were really factory installed, once I found out what they meant. The car sat up like a Police interceptor , but was a civilian car. Where there fender tags for this option?
I haven't seen that page before but I've seen information the same as that. It goes against what I've seen SO many times, a 283 car that has a 12 bolt. Very very common in 66 B body Canadian Pontiacs, and yet what I see there clearly says 283 has the light duty (10 bolt) diff. And my 283 Strato has the 4-link 12 bolt on top of all that...
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Eventually I will be pulling the seats out when I do the conversion. I'm hoping to find the tag then.
I don't really see the point in getting it documented. I know the history from new so all that would help would be the options, and if there's a seat tag it will have those on it.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
And since I didn't reply to your statement, yes, I suspect it is part of F40 on 66 Canadian B body Pontiacs because I've seen many 12 bolt 283 cars over the years.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
But I wouldn't mind an L72 SS427 myself, though good luck documenting it.
