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Post Info TOPIC: Damn you ETHANOL fuel.


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Damn you ETHANOL fuel.


I went to start my 57 Pontiac a few days ago and it was running like crap, i popped the hood and got a rude surprise. There was gas pouring all over the carb, manifold and motor. I was lucky it never started a fire. I knew it had to be the carb float so i took the carb off and checked the float. Sure as taxes my float had gas inside. I got a new float from Carb Rebuilders in Oshawa and Don Oake from C.R. told me that this is such an epidemic because of our crap Canadian ethanol laced fuel. Much of his work is because of our crap fuel. It attacks the solder on the floats. American's do not have this problem because their governments have enough sense not to mandate this garbage in the fuel. It is now a well known fact that ethanol is not cleaning up the air but adding a major carbon foot print because of the growing of corn and the processing to make ethanol. I myself resent having to pay for premium fuel because i drive my oldies a lot and they both love fuel. This whole ethanol thing is just so the David Suzuki types feel good about them selves over non sense. I got my 57 up and running well again but i wonder for how long this time. You have to wonder how many vintage cars have burned down to the ground because of this crap fuel we have here in Canada. 



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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It does rub us all the wrong way. Makes absolutely no sense and it appears its here to stay. They even want to increase the amount.

The only alternative we have is to run the good stuff while it's available, shell nitro in my case. It's simply a cost of avoiding what you just went through.

If it's actually corroding solder on a brass float then you simply can't run ethanol. Please don't be offended; I know you do put lots of miles on the poncho George, but at what point is forgoing the extra cost worth the risk of a fire? 



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A Poncho Legend!

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Is it true premium fuel is ethanol free? I had heard that there isn't any ethanol in the fuel here in PEI but am not sure that's true.

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Canadian Poncho wrote:

Is it true premium fuel is ethanol free? I had heard that there isn't any ethanol in the fuel here in PEI but am not sure that's true.


I don't know about PEI but here in Ontario the only ethanol free fuel is Ultramar or Shell premiums. That's it! PetroCan & Esso premiums contain ethanol.

Brian



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Brian

Barrie, ON



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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You are right, it's the worst thing that has ever happened with fuel. But just don't think it is any better in the States. They use it even more than us and even some of their premiums have it. My recent jaunt through the States shows it well as all you see is fields of corn. It is too bad that is the route the industry took. They could feed the whole world with those fields.

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Jerel


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I filled up the work truck today and didn't notice any mention of Ethanol in any of the fuel. This was at a Petro Canada.

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cdnpont wrote:

It does rub us all the wrong way. Makes absolutely no sense and it appears its here to stay. They even want to increase the amount.

The only alternative we have is to run the good stuff while it's available, shell nitro in my case. It's simply a cost of avoiding what you just went through.

If it's actually corroding solder on a brass float then you simply can't run ethanol. Please don't be offended; I know you do put lots of miles on the poncho George, but at what point is forgoing the extra cost worth the risk of a fire? 


 Mark, your points are well taken but the float cost me $20.00 and my own time. The way i drive both my 57 and 74 i could never afford to fill the tanks with premium every time. I resent what i pay for the regular stuff but the high grade stuff......... forget it. I am just very aware and i have fire bottles on both cars. My cars will never be dust bunnies in the garage and for this there is a price. Cheers.



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1957 Pontiac Pathfinder Deluxe sedan restored 261 six

1974 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon low milage original 400 V-8



Poncho Master!

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I do a bit of compromising. I buy Regular if I know for certain I'll burn it all in a relatively short time. If I think the vehicle (or lawnmower etc) is going to sit with that fuel on it, I splurge on ethanol-free premium. I'm not always 100% successful (sometimes I get caught with ethanol in the tank, or get an unexpected opportunity for one last run in the fall) but I've had fewer problems than when I ran 100% Regular.

The way I see it, there are 4 problems with ethanol.
1. It is difficult to separate water from ethanol, so there is usually some water in the ethanol & that can cause corrosion.
2. Ethanol is soluble in a lot of elastomers (rubber) that are inert to gasoline. Ethanol is a polar molecule. Gasoline is comprised almost completely of non-polar molecules. If you find an elastomer that works for gasoline, it is likely to dissolve in ethanol - and vice-versa.
3. Ethanol contains less energy per litre than gasoline, so you'll burn more.
4. I've reviewed the studies that claim ethanol is better for the environment than petroleum based gasoline, and I do not agree that ethanol is better. The studies (funded by lobbyists for the corn farming states) indicate a slight advantage for ethanol, but they do not take all the impact of planting, fertilizing, irrigating, combining, transporting, processing & distilling the ethanol. If they did, I am convinced the study would show gasoline is significantly better. And all those thousands of acres could go back to growing food. Of course, then the politicians would have to find some other way of subsidizing the farmers.

Unfortunately, "everyone knows" that ethanol is better, so politicians score points with the environmentalists and the farmers by supporting the ethanol in fuel. In reality, it drives up costs (more fuel, more maintenance, higher food prices etc) and pollutes more than the alternative, but nobody really wants to hear that.

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long stroke wrote:
cdnpont wrote:

It does rub us all the wrong way. Makes absolutely no sense and it appears its here to stay. They even want to increase the amount.

The only alternative we have is to run the good stuff while it's available, shell nitro in my case. It's simply a cost of avoiding what you just went through.

If it's actually corroding solder on a brass float then you simply can't run ethanol. Please don't be offended; I know you do put lots of miles on the poncho George, but at what point is forgoing the extra cost worth the risk of a fire? 


 Mark, your points are well taken but the float cost me $20.00 and my own time. The way i drive both my 57 and 74 i could never afford to fill the tanks with premium every time. I resent what i pay for the regular stuff but the high grade stuff......... forget it. I am just very aware and i have fire bottles on both cars. My cars will never be dust bunnies in the garage and for this there is a price. Cheers.


 Extinguishers are always a very good idea, I suppose if you know you own cars the way you probably do George, then you'll always know if a problem crops up, probably even ahead of time.



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Guru

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Had a similar problem with my generator that I used only in winter. Carb rebuilt every damn season until the shop said to use ethanol free fuel like Shell premium. I now suck it up when I fill up my Impala with Shell.

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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You can make a survey or study look anyway you want depending on what data you want to use!! We have composting trucks that run around picking up food waste...is that better for the environment??? 10 ton truck that might get 5 miles to the gallon with all the stopping and starting,little own the brakes it will go through. Then there's the batteries, oil changes,coolant,tires,hydraulic fluid etc....are we doing more good than harm or harm than good??? I think most people think of it as helping and don't think of what it's costing(environment).

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Poncho Master!

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US farm lobby started the ethanol thing, some places its up to 15% and they keep pushing for more. Most places in the US its impossible to get ethanol free fuel. Ethanol eats all the old rubber in your fuel system but never heard of a problem with it eating solder, I think that's just the crap parts we get now. I've not had any problems with the old gas tank floats but the new stuff is garbage, same problem with heater cores, the quality of the solder/manufacturing is crap.

Todd, I think all our Maritime gas is ethanol, except premium. I think ethanol attracts water after it sits a while. Premium here is about 9 cents more per liter.

My 409 and my regular car average about 35 mpg together. Of course thats because my regular car is a diesel. Drove to Antigonish this week, it runs at about 5 liters per 100 KM's. The 409 is single digits but on the mpg scale. No ethanol problems with diesel, yet.

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Canadian Poncho wrote:

Is it true premium fuel is ethanol free? I had heard that there isn't any ethanol in the fuel here in PEI but am not sure that's true.


True. 



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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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hawkeye5766 wrote:

You can make a survey or study look anyway you want depending on what data you want to use!! We have composting trucks that run around picking up food waste...is that better for the environment??? 10 ton truck that might get 5 miles to the gallon with all the stopping and starting,little own the brakes it will go through. Then there's the batteries, oil changes,coolant,tires,hydraulic fluid etc....are we doing more good than harm or harm than good??? I think most people think of it as helping and don't think of what it's costing(environment).


True again. 



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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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A lot of really good and interesting points here, thanks for sharing. 



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1974 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon low milage original 400 V-8



Poncho Master!

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I solved my problem strait av gas



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65wagon wrote:

I solved my problem strait av gas


 That is great if you do not drive much and have unlimited funds. 



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1974 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon low milage original 400 V-8



Poncho Master!

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The trouble with AV gas is that it is formulated for different operating conditions than what a car will see. Then there is the issue of getting caught without paying the road tax that is on all automotive fuels.

I am biting my tongue but will add in passing, who has mentioned their concerns to their local MPP? Me neither. It might be a good thing to try, followed by a petition.

BTW I am a Shell Gold customer for decades.

 



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I use Shell High test, Ultramar,H/T and the Indian reserve on Scugog Island has Non Eth. in it's H/t!! Some CTC pumps are E free but you have to ask & check the pump too!!! Ethanol will also rot out your fuel bowl on Carb, have seen it happen on a Holley 4 bbl. and owner nearly lost his 30 Ford "Vickie" in engine fire!!! There,s additives available too, But i'm just using Octane BOOST in both the 409 & wagon as they need a a"little more"!!! & High test e free in Lawn tractor, lawn mower, whipper snipper & chain saw, & Generator or they screw up big time!!!!

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Everything seasonal gets premium fuel in my household. The aggravation is not worth the few extra dollars. The jeep gets it, the 383 stroker in the boat, the lawn mowers etc all run on premium.

I know it adds up on regular usage as Ill go through a couple hundred litres on a weekend with the boat.

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I use premium good stuff in my lawn mower, weed wacker, chain saw and hedge trimmer but my cars are the high usage beasts and they have to maintain a strict regular diet or my wallet hurts big time. 



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Have to look at MPG...higher octane($$) sometimes offsets the higher dollar per LTR...pay more per Ltr but get better millage per Ltr which offsets the cost per ltr. Sometimes you have to spend to save. Just have to spend the time to figure it out.smile



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hawkeye5766 wrote:

Have to look at MPG...higher octane($$) sometimes offsets the higher dollar per LTR...pay more per Ltr but get better millage per Ltr which offsets the cost per ltr. Sometimes you have to spend to save. Just have to spend the time to figure it out.smile


 Sounds like some very wise words and i might just try that some time. Cheers. 



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Ethanol will also "take out" anything that's rubber or neoprene !!! Fuel pump diaphragm, accelerator pump in Carb. or any neoprene fuel line will be affected!! Just not worth the hassle or chance of losing your ride!!! There's a web site that lists all "non ethanol" gas stations available a cross Canada?

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MC


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Yeah, I can't see how it's economical to buy cheaper fuel that damages your vehicle.  Once you figure in cost of repairs and perhaps a tow bill, the savings dwindle away.  Not to mention the unthinkable possibility of a fire!

Why not run ethanol-free premium, and take advantage of the higher octane with a little tuning?



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