Nice pictures   I think you need a whole floor! 




 

here are a couple more !!

in fact  i ordered  two  full pans  that start  from  the upper two  board   and runs  on one side of the  trans tunnel  to  the  wall ( vertical part of floor )  under the seat

these pans  are welded  to the trans.  tunnel  half  way  up

so this way  the under seat part  will be covered

i also  ordered  a brace  the runs  under the rear seat  and two rear seat pans

the only  holes  that i  think  wont be covered  are the lower rear wheel  wels ( see the pics )

now  i have to decide what to cut  ( how much  to cut  ) and  sand  blast the rest

my center floor braces seem ok  but i might find some surprises as i cut more out of the floor !!!

i  did  cut out some rust on the lower part of the toe board  on the drivers side ( see pic ) and had ordered a toe  board  , but the full  pans include the toe board  so  i will return  that part.

As long as the top of your tunnel is good. Check it very carefully. You don't want to start welding and find out it burns through right away when you are trying to weld new metal to old. Now the next question. Are you planning to butt weld or lap weld? That makes a bit of a difference when you weld sections in. The lap is sure more forgiving, but not as authentic/neat looking.

You can weld it either way with a mig. On a lap weld, you take one panel and over lap the other panel sligthly (maybe 1/2" -1") and then weld. I am not a body man but I would imagine then you need to weld the seam on the other side of the panels as well since there will be a joint there that is unwelded/unsealed. On a butt weld, the panel edges are cut to fit up against the other panel edges and then you weld in the gap between the two. This requires much more time and patience but makes it look much nicer because you can grind down the weld more than on a lap weld. On a lap weld if you grind them smooth, you will have no weld left holding the two panels together. Clear as mud???

This is the floor on my sons 67 camaro and we butt welded the seems . In other words the new pan butted up against the cut in the tunnel instead of overlaping it. A mig welder was used.

Good thinking Ian, pictures!

A quick step by step when I did my Acadian floors, I think that is 3 years ago. I started with this. Rusted out over the floor support, the black area (my old temporary patch)



First I laid the new pan in, traced it.




Then I cut off far less metal than the final cut would be so I could trim it until the new pan sat in and perfectly filled the gap where I had cut out the old. This took me a long time. I am a rookie (first time ever doing floors) so I kept trimming, checking fit, repeat, repeat, repeat.



Then welded the whole area, all the way around the outer edge of the pan. Weld about 1/2" or so, move an inch, weld another 1/2", so on and so on. Just keep going around. This prevents heating up one area and warping it badly.

When finished, grind down the welds, then grind more and so on and so on............... The tarp forms a tent inside the car because the sparks from welding or grinding are killers on interior trim, windows etc.





Seam sealer across the front seam, messy like the factory did it (!!) and then a quick coat of white paint.



I took about 25-30 hours, never kept an actual tally. No speed record, that is for sure.









-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Monday 1st of February 2010 11:53:40 PM

Thank you Ian. I really enjoyed doing that. The next fall, I did the same job for a fellow from Winnipeg on his Nova. Same sheet metal, first generation Nova. I have said if I could get work just doing floor pans I'd do it. I don't have the skill level for outer metal, replacement quarter panels etc but I can make floors look nice. It was a great experience and a great way for a rookie to practice. The only other thing I ever did (major) for sheet metal was put a complete quarter panel on the 94 SS I drive. I think it's a lot easier to do an original style replacement, drilling out all the factory spot welds than putting on aftermarket partial panels. All the seams are hidden on oem panels.

What did you use to cut the old floors out with Carl?

A combo of jig saw and an air powered cutoff wheel along with aviation snips worked the best.

man !!!!!   i love  this  forum  , i am getting  great  answers !!  thanks  guys

now  i  know  that  i will be cutting  EVERYTHING  of the old  floor  , where the new floor pan  is comming.

the idea  to trace a line  as a guide with the new floor pan  is very  clever

but  welding  does not seem easy  , i wil probably   consider lap  welding  on both  sides  in  and under the car

with  a full pan  ( right  and left ) i will be cuting  out quit a lot of metal  !!!!!  if you look at my  pics  !!
my  lack of experience  was telling  me  to over lap  the full pan  on top of some original  floor parts  that are stil  ok...................no no no  cut the whole  thing  out!!!!
keep  up the good advice guys  thanks  again

To be clear, do you have a one piece full pan ordered? If not, I think they might make 2 halves that overlap in the middle that you can trim. I'm not sure because I have not done an A body (Beaumont, Lemans, Skylark etc.) As long as the two halves meet in the middle you will be ok.

thats it Carl  i ordered  two  half  pans  left  and right  that run from  front  to rear  of the floor  area ( they even go up to the toe  board  to the dimmer switch  level )
i will weld  these  along  the tunnel and  along  the rocker panel   and edge along the rear wall of the car  if my term  is right
also  ordered  two  seat pans  left and right  ans one cross brace 

total  cost  750.00  txs incl.

Something to think about when doing this is the cars structural stregnth. It might not be as big of an issue on an A-body car (has a frame) but I know Carl and I have discussed this topic when he did his Acadian because there is no frame to support the car. It is a big concern on a unibody car because if the car is not braced properly, the doors may never close again. I don't know if this will be an issue since your car is sitting on the frame but I would still think about it and probably make sure the body mounts are not rusted out prior to this task.

And maybe support the frame in a whole bunch of places. Don't put pressure up on the frame, just support it. It is amazing how much the body contributes to the structural integrity of a car, even one that has a full frame.

Thanks guys for posting these great articles. This will really help when I tear into mine.

support the frame  , i could imagine  , that it could chage  something

but  might as well do  it  not to take any  chances , i am  tearing  out  both side  of the tunel     you never know

thanks 

well i finished cutting the whole  floor today  , from  the toe board to the  rear seat pan

i am installing  two  full half pans ( front to rear )   and also  two rear seat pans

i will post  pics  soon

i had planed changing  the rear seat brace  , but was not shure about the two  other braces until  i had finished cutting  the whole floor  ( always surprises )

so  the mid brace was rusted  and  was removed  , the font brace was not  so bad  , still reasonnably solid , but had some rot  , so i decides to  also  take it out

the problem here was the following............what ever floor part i cut out  , i cut the brace with  it , but i was keeping  intact my tunnel , in order tu lapweld the pans , but the braces where factory welded  under that tunnel part i wanted to keep .

So  the tunnel  part the runs behind  the front  brace  was saved  , but when i tried to grind the factory  welds  front that brace , the tunnel that remains  ( about 5 inches wide ) had to be cut to remove the remains of that brace  dammmmmmmmm! (those brace welds are under the tunnel )

same thing  for the mid brace  , there was some rust  on the brace and the weld spots under the tunnel  , so when  i tried to grind that out  , it broke

to make a long story short  , my tunnel   is intact in front  of the  front brace going to the toe boards !

i just hope  the two pans  overlap   or but themselves together  when they will be welded

on top of the remains  of my trans tunnel  ( i did keep the two tunnel parts that where separated by the braces )

the other problem  is the mid brace , it is factory  welded  between the frame and the back  of the rocker panel, so the brace  was cut out , but the remains  is still between the frame and rocker panel  wich   is  a tight spot !!!!! they  run pretty close together !
i might have  to alter my new brace  to fit that spot  ( at a 180.00   a piece  i hate to cut in to them )
so i cant acces to grind it out the remains of the old brace   

i will have  to figure out something  there  in order to weld in my new  mid brace

so if you plan to change  the  mid brace  , you are better off doing  a frame off !

the front one is easy  , it is bolted to the frame  with  a body  cushion !

where can i find  those ????  any body  know ??

and the back seat brace is accessible   to weld  on the back  of the rocker panels  also


so thats my story  , i will  post somme pictures  of my problem spots tomorrow

quote _______________________________________________________________________________ the other problem is the mid brace , it is factory welded between the frame and the back of the rocker panel, so the brace was cut out , but the remains is still between the frame and rocker panel wich is a tight spot !!!!! they run pretty close together ! i might have to alter my new brace to fit that spot ( at a 180.00 a piece i hate to cut in to them ) so i cant acces to grind it out the remains of the old brace _________________________________________________________________________________ Can you cut the new brace, then cut the old brace at a spot where you can access, then butt weld them and grind them to make it look nice? If I am picturing it correctly, I think that would be the best way to do it. I know it hurts to cut the new piece but what option do you have? I know you could undo the body mount bolts and lift the body, but trust me, that will give you a whole new pile of work that you won't want to do.

Carl , i think  i wiil have to  cut my new  mid brace  , because i  cant imagine  how  i am  going to remove the remains  of the old one  ( so the equivalent  of the new one  will  probably  cut out    to but weld  to the old part  behind the frame rail )

if your answer  was about the brace part  that runs under the tunnel  ' i could of left the old brace there  and  but weld  on both sides  ( left and right )  the rest of the brace  , BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS A CONSIDERABLE  WEAK  SPOT  ON THAT BRACE

so the whole brace came off and my tunnel  is in three parts  now  !!!!  i still have a strong part from the middle of the front seat  to the toe  board ........at least

once the braces are in  i will position  the pans  to see how they  over lap  ( hope they  do so )   pictures are to come

by the way  my english   is not perfect  , ( i am french  originaly  , but brought up in toronto  as a kid  !!!!! )  living  in the Montreal  Qué  area  since .

ohhh   by  the  way  , no  i am  not planning  on lifting  out the  body.............no time for now  !!

-- Edited by since 1983 on Wednesday 24th of March 2010 08:44:38 AM

Fake68 on this forum did pans in a 67 and I think he said they overlapped in the middle of the tunnel. Hopefully you have the same kind he has and then you will have enough metal to work with.

well  i ripted  the passenger side first  and put in the pan  to see where it comes to  and  it seemed to  end  pretty much  on top of the floor pan

i might  have a but weld  situation  here  for the center part  ( both pans together )

i have a  local  body  man  that works  on antique cars quite a bit  , he will be in tomorow  to check  out he car

i havent forgot  those pictures  to come !!!