I have a gallon of PPG dp90 and a gallon of Dupont 2540s

which one would you use...??

I'm not a professional..I paint my stuff only but due some body work for friends...I would go with dupont...I can't remember the problem but it seems like I keep hearing over and over ppg changed their product up and it's not as good...anyone else have a comment?

I'm thinking the dupont is a nonsandable primer, but I would read the tech sheets and make sure all your primers fillers and paint are compatible.

I'll bring them up for you, and dp primer is used on some very expensive restorations, it does cost more then spi and certain other primers, but don't discount the dp.

http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/H-19356_25X0S.pdf

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/tech%20sheets%20new/epOXY%202006.pdf

http://custom-aerosol.com/pdf/PPG-DPLF-epoxy-primer-product-sheet.pdf

"DuPont Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer a two-component, non-isocyanate non-sanding primer"

oooops ....I am just priming to protect while working and then scuff and recoat complete later ....


so I am better off with the ppg dp90


Thanks Rob ..

Your welcome Frank

PPG no longer makes DP epoxy and hasn't since about 1998, its replacement DPLF is NO WHERE near the same animal as DP. Just to set the record straight.

IMO DPLF is a sub par product. Sands like crap, doesn't hold up to the lacquer test, also states in the P-sheet "for max performance a metal conditioner or etch prime MUST be applied to bare metal"

DPLF is also classified as a non sanding primer.

Just because it says non sanding doesn't mean you can NOT sand it. Just means you do not need to sand the product when you apply another product on top of it as long as you are within the window.

If you want to sand DPLF or the Dupont epoxy you CAN once it cures. Pay no attention to the non sanding crap.

JMO, SPI epoxy makes PPG epoxy look stupid,this coming from a long time fan and user of PPG paints.

"DuPont Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer a two-component, non-isocyanate non-sanding primer"

Just curious after reading this...
Does anybody know if SPI epoxy has isocyanates?

PPG no longer makes DP epoxy and hasn't since about 1998, its replacement DPLF is NO WHERE near the same animal as DP. Just to set the record straight.

IMO DPLF is a sub par product. Sands like crap, doesn't hold up to the lacquer test, also states in the P-sheet "for max performance a metal conditioner or etch prime MUST be applied to bare metal"

DPLF is also classified as a non sanding primer.

Just because it says non sanding doesn't mean you can NOT sand it. Just means you do not need to sand the product when you apply another product on top of it as long as you are within the window.

If you want to sand DPLF or the Dupont epoxy you CAN once it cures. Pay no attention to the non sanding crap.

JMO, SPI epoxy makes PPG epoxy look stupid,this coming from a long time fan and user of PPG paints.
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I guess I'll have to sandblast all this junk ppg dplf off and put some spi on it.

36

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Just curious after reading this...
Does anybody know if SPI epoxy has isocyanates?

I'm no paint expert but generally I think isocyanates are associated with URETHANES and not epoxies. You should be able to call SPI or find some tech sheets on their site to double check.

Both the Dupont and PPG are good stuff from my experience. Follow the instructions for whichever product you decide to use and you will be just fine.

As a first coat you really can't go wrong with either of those. I'm not saying that they are better or worse than SPI's products...I haven't used that product.

DPLF is still way better than Duponts version. On bare metal, PPG's metal etch should be used. Topcoat with DPLF 90 Black and finally K36 or appropriate primer. This is done in one spraying by waiting the correct time between coats and products. Then do your body work. Here is a link that might help the weekend warrior.

http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Refinish/PPGRefinish/EN

I have been a journeyman painter for the last 16 years and have sprayed many lines of paint. PPG is one of the best for quality. Dupont is made for speed. drys fast=lots of shrinkage

my buddy helping me do some welding dropped off a gallon to try out ...and he uses at his shop and brags about it .

so I have used both now ...

...ppg on frame and underbody and trunk ...and recently dupont on just one 1/4 panel and interior floor ....just one fast coat for protection while working on the other side of car ...

I found the dupont sprays nicely but man is it ever thin when mixing ....thin like water ...
and it does dry very fast and has kind of a very chalky look when scuffed/sanded ..and it seems to sand off on the easy side .....the ppg is harder to sand ...

I had him call his dupont tech guy and he said that you can scuff/sand and recoat with no problem .....supposedly the "non sanding" has confused many people according to him ...

but me as a first timer ....I like the ppg better ....the dry is longer and its harder to sand off ,which tells me its stuck on there....


ps ...of course mask is used ....but when spraying the dupont I had no need for mask if I wanted too....it seemed like I was spraying water ...

also the dupont is pricier than ppg


https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/projectgs/BUICKRESTORATION440.jpg

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I guess I'll have to sandblast all this junk ppg dplf off and put some spi on it.

36

Well, when comparing the two products, SPI is a far superior product IMO.
You have a product that needs another product for best results (DX1791), it doesn't hold up to lacquer thinner, and doesn't sand very well.

Last time I checked(about 4-5 yrs ago) a mixed gallon of dx1791 ran about $100. Whats a mixed gallon of DPLF cost am guessing about 200 bucks. So in order to make DPLF preform at its best you need 300 dollars worth of product:eek: Am sorry but thats plain crazy to me when other products out there will out preform DPLF and cost much less.

Am not talking just SPI here, R-M has an excellent epoxy in the Diamont line thats no where near the 300 dollar mark. Valspar has a excellent epoxy primer.

There are just more options to epoxy primer then DPLF. Your urethane primer or base coat or whatever DOES NOT care what brand of epoxy it is. If the epoxy is cured then throw some PPG K38 urethane, Spies hecker urethane, or Sherwin Williams over that Dupont epoxy or SPI, it WILL NOT know the difference.


Debating paint products is like debating car manufacturers, Ford vs Chevy, all boils down to personal preference.

There are just more options to epoxy primer then DPLF. Your urethane primer or base coat or whatever DOES NOT care what brand of epoxy it is. If the epoxy is cured then throw some PPG K38 urethane, Spies hecker urethane, or Sherwin Williams over that Dupont epoxy or SPI, it WILL NOT know the difference.

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No doubt what your saying is true, but your information comes from working in a body shop and doing lots of it.

A novice like myself might only do one car, and this mixing and matching of different paint brands could get ugly. If we have a problem with any of it, we don't have a co-worker to ask about it.

Something to think about, if you buy your paint locally, the guy selling the paint, or at least my guy knows, what type of weather conditions we are doing it in, like along the lake we have the cold, and rarely a humidity problem, so he will help you out on a fast or slow dry solvent or thinner.

Plus he has refresher courses he attends on paints and primers. He also is on the receiving end of few irate costomers that come in that have a problem with a paint or primer.

Is spi in stores, or is it all mail order. The guy that boxes up and sends me this paint, doesn't know if I have a climate controlled shop in Florida or I'm doing it in my back yard up in Canada.

I had an old body man helping for about a year, we were doing motorcycle tanks and body sets, we mixed and matched our paints and primers all the time, and we had excellent results, but I don't have him anymore, so if I start this mixing and matching, I'll probably screw it up.

Spi has to be a really good primer, I here it all the time on forums, theres just to many people that like it, plus it costs less then ppgs dplf.

I'm over cautious and I know it, but this money I have to spend on paint and primer came the hard way, work, and I won't risk a $200 savings in primer to end up with a chance of having to redo a whole car.

I don't like the odds, if something works, thats the way it goes.

Some old guys like myself are bull headed, and I know I'm one of the worst out there, but remember this, we didn't get into our sixties by not being just a little bit cautious.

I will buy newer tools and use newer ways to do things, I'm comfortable around tools, I understand them, but paint and primers, I don't like the unknowns about them, right pressure, or right nozzle, different tempatures, the right distance from the panel, I'm maxed out with just this part of it, let alone thinking I hope I have the right stuff in the paint gun.

Rob

Well, when comparing the two products, SPI is a far superior product IMO.
You have a product that needs another product for best results (DX1791), it doesn't hold up to lacquer thinner, and doesn't sand very well.

Last time I checked(about 4-5 yrs ago) a mixed gallon of dx1791 ran about $100. Whats a mixed gallon of DPLF cost am guessing about 200 bucks. So in order to make DPLF preform at its best you need 300 dollars worth of product:eek: Am sorry but thats plain crazy to me when other products out there will out preform DPLF and cost much less.



While I agree with Eric that the SPI is a good product and cost effective, his comments on DPLF are off base.

Unless they have changed the P-Sheet for DPLF recently, it says NOTHING about having to use the DX 1791. It does suggest some metal prep and states "Chemical treatment or the use of a conversion coating will enhance the adhesion and performance properties of the finished system". This is just a big Corps disclaimer as too many have wiped their cars down with solvents before putting the DPLF on. This is a big NO-NO as it will cause adhesion problems. Use the DPLF as directed by the P-Sheet and you will be just fine.

If you feel better taking Eric's advice about the SPI, that would be good too!

Larry

Heres the sheet, http://custom-aerosol.com/pdf/PPG-DPLF-epoxy-primer-product-sheet.pdf

They call for a 1.2 to 1.5 mills, and after you mix it up, its not watery so you should have that many mills right out of the gate.

DP90LF-DP402LF is black and pretty forgiving, I have set the body back on the frame several times, and in the process nicked and scratched it.

I use an air brush, just thin it a little and kind of mist it on, you can't hardly tell it was touched.

The last time I nicked it, I took some wrought iron black and a ultra fine brush and dabbed the nicks, those covered really nice, if you didn't know where they were they would be hard to find.

I use a siphon type gun and it sprays really nice, no thinning.

I put some of it over bare metal and parts of it was over rage and also over z-chrome, its been about four years I guess since I sprayed it, it has set in a unheated garage through the winters up here, and when I oiled the motor about a month ago, I brought it into the shop with good lighting and looked it over, it looks just as good today, no peeling, no cracks.

I'm actually in the same boat trying to get some paint on for winter then coming back later and scuffing it up to paint. I'll be using the PPG Omni Epoxy. It's supposed to be a good product even for those that are used to the DP series. Plus it's MUCH cheaper.

I'm actually in the same boat trying to get some paint on for winter then coming back later and scuffing it up to paint. I'll be using the PPG Omni Epoxy. It's supposed to be a good product even for those that are used to the DP series. Plus it's MUCH cheaper.

I have used OMNI as well and must caution you, it needs very good agitation in order to get the right results. I'd advise you to use a paint mixer on a drill if you don't have a shaker. Follow the sheet!