Drove car around Saturday and it was running well. Started it Sunday afternoon and all I heard was a loud CLANG and no start. Tried key again and it started, let it run for a bit then turned it off and have not tried to start again.
So I figure the Clang was solenoid engaging starter gear into flywheel with no starter turning over.
What I am going to do is shim the starter and make sure all connections are good and tight and try it again. Any other suggestions ?
rabbit64cs said
Jul 28, 2014
Put a new solenoid on, or pull that one apart . The copper button inside is most likely corroded and worn, solenoid will pull in , but will not pass power to the starter motor, as the copper is pitted and corroded.
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
Thanks Rog.
67Poncho said
Jul 28, 2014
For the Love of God, Rat Boy! GM starter, ACD #336-1823A for $109 list or the tiny beauty that I run on most all of mine big and small block, ACD #336-1910A for a list of $288... That one doesn't care if the engine is hot or cold... Spend some of that OLD money you have before it falls to dust!!!
.............
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
That's what I'm thinking too, LOL.
67Poncho said
Jul 28, 2014
Are we still talking the starter or the money???? (LOLOLOL) PLUS, I just found out that as of March '14, the #336 series starter has limited lifetime warranty for as long as you own the car! So, there you go... Spend $ for one starter or the other and NEVER EVER have to worry about buyin' another starter again..... Gear reduction one for me... But, you will need the proper shorter bolts..! OR, add 4-5 lock washers like I have done in the past...
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 10:59:43 AM
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
I already called CITY Chevrolet, I can get the starters as follows:
336 -1823A = $92.65
336 -1910A = $199.75
That's 15% off list. Delivery from Woodstock ON is one day.
67Poncho said
Jul 28, 2014
Had to call my guy when I saw your #1910A 15% off ending up to $199... The price I gave was on a starter I had in stock since the fall... The new price is $235...
That's a great price for a 1 time buy, in my opinion! And it weighs what feels like 10 pounds less than the #1823A starter!
Another thing I like with the #1910A, it requires LESS power to engage which bodes well for us with the older less productive, conductive electrical harnesses....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 01:26:36 PM
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
So on the smaller 1910A unit, it will bolt onto my 1983 454 using shorter bolts and the connectors wire up the same as my original style 1823A unit?
67Poncho said
Jul 28, 2014
As long as you have the large ring gear with the double long bolt, staggered pattern, yes... Small and big block, '65 and up! I have that #1910A on 99% of my fleet...
Now, I should say here the solenoid is a 2 wire only.... the batt and "S" terminal... For those using points, there is no "R" terminal... A relay would fix that issue if required...
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 01:56:14 PM
4SPEED427 said
Jul 28, 2014
As far as I've ever seen Vince, he has to have that style starter because I don't think a small diameter flywheel exists that is balanced for a Mark IV 454.
67Poncho said
Jul 28, 2014
Carl Stevenson wrote:
As far as I've ever seen Vince, he has to have that style starter because I don't think a small diameter flywheel exists that is balanced for a Mark IV 454.
True that Carl! Wasn't and didn't even come to mind that tid bit when I wrote it... I sorta clumped everything in one pile when I posted... including 6's and 8's in general! Guess that is only true for the 400 SB too.... or is there a smaller ring gear for them?
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
I checked compatibility of the 1910A starter with the 454 of my vintage and every source I check comes up NOT Compatible so the 1823A is the one. I was looking in the parts bin tonight and lo and behold I found an NOS in the package GM heat shield for the starter so I'll be using that as well.
4SPEED427 said
Jul 28, 2014
67Poncho wrote:
Carl Stevenson wrote:
As far as I've ever seen Vince, he has to have that style starter because I don't think a small diameter flywheel exists that is balanced for a Mark IV 454.
True that Carl! Wasn't and didn't even come to mind that tid bit when I wrote it... I sorta clumped everything in one pile when I posted... including 6's and 8's in general! Guess that is only true for the 400 SB too.... or is there a smaller ring gear for them?
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the small gear belongs to 350 or smaller, at least I've never seen one factory installed on anything larger.
As I've mentioned here before though when guys ask, on the early two piece rear seal design crankshafts, the small flywheel can be bolted on to all the inline engines and V8's excepting 454, 400 small block and 292. The 427 I put in my Acadian received the 194 starter (with matching bolts) as well as the 194 flexplate so that the powerglide from the 194 would bolt up to the 427. Nothing better than Chev/Canadian Poncho interchangeability.
And Ray, although lots of guys will likely disagree with me, I still think that old style starter like the 1823A you plan to use is still the best Delco starter ever. I'm not a fan of those newer smaller size units.
73SC said
Jul 28, 2014
Thanks Carl, its a heavy unit but I use a small aluminum floor jack to put it in place and that works fine. I have two working 1823A's on the shelf but going for a new unit should fix me up this season.
67Poncho said
Jul 29, 2014
73SC wrote:
I checked compatibility of the 1910A starter with the 454 of my vintage and every source I check comes up NOT Compatible so the 1823A is the one. I was looking in the parts bin tonight and lo and behold I found an NOS in the package GM heat shield for the starter so I'll be using that as well.
???? Compatibility of EVERY source???? Have you bolted it to the block? Obviously that would be the best source..... What year 454? But that if that 454 block was built between '70-'91 model years, I have that covered. ODD to say the least since I have one bolted to my original 454 '70 estate and one bolted to a '91 454 out of a crew cab that's in my '70 2-door, one bolted to a 350 2-piece seal in my '67 Rag and one bolted to a mid '90's 1 piece rear seal in my '67 Coupe... And, oh yea, one bolted to a '91 Jimmy with a 4.3........ Whatever turns it's crank...
Ya know, this reminds me of the time when I was thinking of putting injection in my '70 back in '91.... My first year of ASEP, GM training..... There was an abundance of harnesses and pieces at the school to convert to injection... I went to one of the local dealers and asked the parts guy, "what do I need"? You this and this and this.... I said I have, I have I have....... His final statement before we could say anything else, "It can't be done"....... WTF ya mean it can't be done... Just an old way of thinking or just can't see forward? And yes, my '70 has been injected since '91... Roger saw it this weekend at the Bruno car show.... In '93 I also installed a 5-speed out of an '92-3 1/2 ton in the same car.... You guessed it! Can't be done! Hydraulic clutch slave hook up, revamp the crossmember mount pad, shifter issues.... Still going for 21 years now.....
Also in this '70, back when I built it, I have a tilt out of a early '80's Malibu with the dimmer on the wheel and delay wipers out of a '76 Chevelle with the delay wiper switch out of a what I believe a late '70's pick up... Point being, reading it on paper, it would never agreed to it being compatible... Think outside the box...
I also had a '64 283 that was only drilled for the small 6 cyl starter... Guess what? I WANTED the big 8 cyl starter... I was told it COULDN'T be drilled? Never know till I drilled it.... Worked great!
Reading what it fits and trying to see what fits, you'll never know TILL YOU TRY THE OLD HANDS ON APPROACH!
It's up to you what you want on there.... Just was never a fan of being told, until you try, that it doesn't fit..... on paper.......... Carry on....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 29th of July 2014 08:57:12 AM
rabbit64cs said
Jul 29, 2014
Without a doubt, looks like a factory install! Clean and simple! a swap,I've always wanted to do..awesome job Vincent...
re...
'70 has been injected since '91... Roger saw it this weekend at the Bruno car show.... In '93 I also installed a 5-speed out of an '92-3 1/2 ton in the same car.... You guessed it! Can't be done! Hydraulic clutch slave hook up, revamp the crossmember mount pad, shifter issues.... Still going for 21 years now.....
4SPEED427 said
Jul 29, 2014
Vince, I think you've planted the seed (idea) for a new thread here on "And they said it couldn't/shouldn't be done."
67Poncho said
Jul 29, 2014
Carl Stevenson wrote:
Vince, I think you've planted the seed (idea) for a new thread here on "And they said it couldn't/shouldn't be done."
Rog, that car was my first work, not my best work!!! (lol) The cars and trucks following, I did thing a little different and hopefully cleaner... Thanks for the "thumbs up" vote....
And hey, I just want to point out that I am not in a tiff in anyway or being.... What Ray or anyone else wants to do is entirely up to them... Just a suggestion that I may have already put into play.... Just nice to have options, that's all...
I know even with GM parts, there are a bunch of different numbers for a particular item but they all work... Why? No idea...
I remember the pulse/delay boards for the pre '95 S/T trucks, J cars and the M/L Vans... (S-10, 2 and 4wd, Sunbird, Skylark, Cavalier and Calais, Astro/Safari 2 and AWD)... All different numbers but they work.... On tech was livid that parts didn't have... Me being me, overheard and told, "suggested" to get one for one of the other models... It worked... Pre '98 style alternators.. Samething... Some you just had to spin the rear case....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 29th of July 2014 12:51:55 PM
73SC said
Jul 29, 2014
I hear you Vincent.....My 73 Pontiac LeMans has plenty of Chevrolet Chevelle parts on it, it's got a rear defogger from a 72 Buick Skylark, it s got a Grand Prix map light a Firebird speedometer, not to mention a 454 from a GMC Dually complete with GMC Sprint engine callout on the grille. I use a 403 Olds oil pressure sender, trunk seal from a 70-72 Nova, oil pan and headers from 73 SS454 parts book, sway bar from a 75 GT, battery hold down from a 71 LeMans and who knows what else I can't remember right now. All of these directly bolted in.
Greaser said
Jul 29, 2014
All this reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song......
I hear you Vincent.....My 73 Pontiac LeMans has plenty of Chevrolet Chevelle parts on it, it's got a rear defogger from a 72 Buick Skylark, it s got a Grand Prix map light a Firebird speedometer, not to mention a 454 from a GMC Dually complete with GMC Sprint engine callout on the grille. I use a 403 Olds oil pressure sender, trunk seal from a 70-72 Nova, oil pan and headers from 73 SS454 parts book, sway bar from a 75 GT, battery hold down from a 71 LeMans and who knows what else I can't remember right now. All of these directly bolted in.
That's the beauty of the General!
Jeepers, I believe the easiest direct bolt in for me on this car was the rear diff... A DF code 3:07 posi out of a '69 4-dr Chief! I remember it like it was yesterday... about 22 years ago!!! Time has flown by....
Canadian Poncho said
Jul 29, 2014
Vince, PLEEEZE do a thread on your FI conversion. PLEEEZE
ARCADIAN said
Jul 29, 2014
Ray the swap meet on Monday @ CTC Queensway may have a starter for you at a good price.
67Poncho said
Jul 29, 2014
ARCADIAN wrote:
Ray the swap meet on Monday @ CTC Queensway may have a starter for you at a good price.
But will the swap meet have a "for as long as you forever more own your car" warranty? For $92 plus tax? Man.... smoking deal!
Drove car around Saturday and it was running well. Started it Sunday afternoon and all I heard was a loud CLANG and no start. Tried key again and it started, let it run for a bit then turned it off and have not tried to start again.
So I figure the Clang was solenoid engaging starter gear into flywheel with no starter turning over.
What I am going to do is shim the starter and make sure all connections are good and tight and try it again. Any other suggestions ?
Thanks Rog.
For the Love of God, Rat Boy! GM starter, ACD #336-1823A for $109 list or the tiny beauty that I run on most all of mine big and small block, ACD #336-1910A for a list of $288... That one doesn't care if the engine is hot or cold... Spend some of that OLD money you have before it falls to dust!!!
That's what I'm thinking too, LOL.
Are we still talking the starter or the money???? (LOLOLOL) PLUS, I just found out that as of March '14, the #336 series starter has limited lifetime warranty for as long as you own the car! So, there you go... Spend $ for one starter or the other and NEVER EVER have to worry about buyin' another starter again..... Gear reduction one for me... But, you will need the proper shorter bolts..! OR, add 4-5 lock washers like I have done in the past...
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 10:59:43 AM
I already called CITY Chevrolet, I can get the starters as follows:
336 -1823A = $92.65
336 -1910A = $199.75
That's 15% off list. Delivery from Woodstock ON is one day.
Had to call my guy when I saw your #1910A 15% off ending up to $199... The price I gave was on a starter I had in stock since the fall... The new price is $235...
That's a great price for a 1 time buy, in my opinion! And it weighs what feels like 10 pounds less than the #1823A starter!
Another thing I like with the #1910A, it requires LESS power to engage which bodes well for us with the older less productive, conductive electrical harnesses....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 01:26:36 PM
So on the smaller 1910A unit, it will bolt onto my 1983 454 using shorter bolts and the connectors wire up the same as my original style 1823A unit?
As long as you have the large ring gear with the double long bolt, staggered pattern, yes... Small and big block, '65 and up! I have that #1910A on 99% of my fleet...
Now, I should say here the solenoid is a 2 wire only.... the batt and "S" terminal... For those using points, there is no "R" terminal... A relay would fix that issue if required...
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 28th of July 2014 01:56:14 PM
True that Carl! Wasn't and didn't even come to mind that tid bit when I wrote it... I sorta clumped everything in one pile when I posted... including 6's and 8's in general! Guess that is only true for the 400 SB too.... or is there a smaller ring gear for them?
I checked compatibility of the 1910A starter with the 454 of my vintage and every source I check comes up NOT Compatible so the 1823A is the one. I was looking in the parts bin tonight and lo and behold I found an NOS in the package GM heat shield for the starter so I'll be using that as well.
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure the small gear belongs to 350 or smaller, at least I've never seen one factory installed on anything larger.
As I've mentioned here before though when guys ask, on the early two piece rear seal design crankshafts, the small flywheel can be bolted on to all the inline engines and V8's excepting 454, 400 small block and 292. The 427 I put in my Acadian received the 194 starter (with matching bolts) as well as the 194 flexplate so that the powerglide from the 194 would bolt up to the 427. Nothing better than Chev/Canadian Poncho interchangeability.
And Ray, although lots of guys will likely disagree with me, I still think that old style starter like the 1823A you plan to use is still the best Delco starter ever. I'm not a fan of those newer smaller size units.
Thanks Carl, its a heavy unit but I use a small aluminum floor jack to put it in place and that works fine. I have two working 1823A's on the shelf but going for a new unit should fix me up this season.
???? Compatibility of EVERY source???? Have you bolted it to the block? Obviously that would be the best source..... What year 454? But that if that 454 block was built between '70-'91 model years, I have that covered. ODD to say the least since I have one bolted to my original 454 '70 estate and one bolted to a '91 454 out of a crew cab that's in my '70 2-door, one bolted to a 350 2-piece seal in my '67 Rag and one bolted to a mid '90's 1 piece rear seal in my '67 Coupe... And, oh yea, one bolted to a '91 Jimmy with a 4.3........ Whatever turns it's crank...
Ya know, this reminds me of the time when I was thinking of putting injection in my '70 back in '91.... My first year of ASEP, GM training..... There was an abundance of harnesses and pieces at the school to convert to injection... I went to one of the local dealers and asked the parts guy, "what do I need"? You this and this and this.... I said I have, I have I have....... His final statement before we could say anything else, "It can't be done"....... WTF ya mean it can't be done... Just an old way of thinking or just can't see forward? And yes, my '70 has been injected since '91... Roger saw it this weekend at the Bruno car show.... In '93 I also installed a 5-speed out of an '92-3 1/2 ton in the same car.... You guessed it! Can't be done! Hydraulic clutch slave hook up, revamp the crossmember mount pad, shifter issues.... Still going for 21 years now.....
Also in this '70, back when I built it, I have a tilt out of a early '80's Malibu with the dimmer on the wheel and delay wipers out of a '76 Chevelle with the delay wiper switch out of a what I believe a late '70's pick up... Point being, reading it on paper, it would never agreed to it being compatible... Think outside the box...
I also had a '64 283 that was only drilled for the small 6 cyl starter... Guess what? I WANTED the big 8 cyl starter... I was told it COULDN'T be drilled? Never know till I drilled it.... Worked great!
Reading what it fits and trying to see what fits, you'll never know TILL YOU TRY THE OLD HANDS ON APPROACH!
It's up to you what you want on there.... Just was never a fan of being told, until you try, that it doesn't fit..... on paper.......... Carry on....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 29th of July 2014 08:57:12 AM
Without a doubt, looks like a factory install! Clean and simple! a swap,I've always wanted to do..awesome job Vincent...
re...
'70 has been injected since '91... Roger saw it this weekend at the Bruno car show.... In '93 I also installed a 5-speed out of an '92-3 1/2 ton in the same car.... You guessed it! Can't be done! Hydraulic clutch slave hook up, revamp the crossmember mount pad, shifter issues.... Still going for 21 years now.....
Rog, that car was my first work, not my best work!!! (lol) The cars and trucks following, I did thing a little different and hopefully cleaner... Thanks for the "thumbs up" vote....
And hey, I just want to point out that I am not in a tiff in anyway or being.... What Ray or anyone else wants to do is entirely up to them... Just a suggestion that I may have already put into play.... Just nice to have options, that's all...
I know even with GM parts, there are a bunch of different numbers for a particular item but they all work... Why? No idea...
I remember the pulse/delay boards for the pre '95 S/T trucks, J cars and the M/L Vans... (S-10, 2 and 4wd, Sunbird, Skylark, Cavalier and Calais, Astro/Safari 2 and AWD)... All different numbers but they work.... On tech was livid that parts didn't have... Me being me, overheard and told, "suggested" to get one for one of the other models... It worked... Pre '98 style alternators.. Samething... Some you just had to spin the rear case....
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 29th of July 2014 12:51:55 PM
I hear you Vincent.....My 73 Pontiac LeMans has plenty of Chevrolet Chevelle parts on it, it's got a rear defogger from a 72 Buick Skylark, it s got a Grand Prix map light a Firebird speedometer, not to mention a 454 from a GMC Dually complete with GMC Sprint engine callout on the grille. I use a 403 Olds oil pressure sender, trunk seal from a 70-72 Nova, oil pan and headers from 73 SS454 parts book, sway bar from a 75 GT, battery hold down from a 71 LeMans and who knows what else I can't remember right now. All of these directly bolted in.
All this reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song......
That's the beauty of the General!
Jeepers, I believe the easiest direct bolt in for me on this car was the rear diff... A DF code 3:07 posi out of a '69 4-dr Chief! I remember it like it was yesterday... about 22 years ago!!!
Time has flown by....
But will the swap meet have a "for as long as you forever more own your car" warranty? For $92 plus tax? Man.... smoking deal!