a friend i know has a 396 complete engine i asked how much he said 2500.00 it a 67 is it worth it. would need to be freshened up.hes got 1 from 1970 also lots of engines.
Never count on parts being the years people think they are and check the #'s yourself.. Depending on what stamped Suffix pad #'s, casting #'s and dates also distrib # etc is included w/ the deal can have a major impact on value.. A '499 distrib for example can be worth a thou or two alone!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post at 13:04, 2008-12-31
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I like real cars best...especially the REAL real ones! ----------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I think that is top dollar for an engine needing a going through. Hard to find, yes, but you'll have serious dollars in it when it's all fresh.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Are these comments a joke? Has anyone out there kept track of the value of original, date coded, big block engines. Originallity is where its at and if you can't afford to be in the hobby, sell your car for parts and get out, ie, reallity is where its at. Wishfull thinking is one thing, however, there are fewer and fewer of these engines available to restore as I have found out, personally, over the last 20 years. The suffix codes are irrelavent as the date code of the block as well as the part number of the block are the only important numbers ie; 321, 439, 512, etc. including their dates of prodcuction are the ONLY important numbers. In the event a block is restamped and the original block shows up you should not be able to tell the difference and no matter what someone thinks they know, it won't happen. Someone said on this site a long time ago that, us, Candian Pontiac owners are cheap; this is NOT something to be proud of. On the American side of things $15,000-$20,000 is not unreasonable for a date coded, numbers restamped and rebuilt engine for your high performance GM vehicle. Our vehicles are much rarer than an American counterpart and eventually, as we have seen with Beaumont SDs, the interest across North America is rising and the value of the original cars are dramatically increasing. I suppose what I'm getting at is if you don't like the price of something and you cannot afford to purchase it, don't degrade the person that is asking the price as the law of supply and demand governs and the part or car will sell for what its worth, ie we don't need your uneducated input. Doug.
Doug I agree in the nicest possible way We need to rethink the value of our rare cars.. Many of us, are not flush, with hobby car money, but we will learn, to respect those who can go, to the level required.. I can only try to make my car, look as close as possible, to O.E. p.s I did say I thought it was worth the money I sold a complete (top to bottom)Dec66 build 67 396 -360 for 1500.00 (1995) He spent another 2000.00 to rebuild it and it is a nice piece.. Myfriend in Moncton has a 427-390 and I think I should buy it....Carl
I passed on a 67 Caprice complete car driving that needed resto three years ago @ $4500-it was 396/325 400 turbo just what I needed for my 67 Chevelle at the time-instead I bought a 67 SD396 Beaumont but didn't have the heart to pull the orig engine---
I am not sure, but if he does,, I should get it.. I actually need to call him on a rear end.. He took the 12 bolt, out of the yellow 69 Nova, HE SOLD FOR 25g to TOronto My nonova has a 10 bolt with 3.73 but no posi... a new posi is around 600, plus install He had said he would take 1200.00 for 12 bolt..
Hmmm...I think the price is steep, but of course if you magically have the car that that block belongs too then its worth it that to add to the value of the car. 427Strato, the law of supply and demand works when the seller has a buyer... its not a one way street... so if the buyer wants to offer lower, then thats what its worth to them -and the seller can sell or not -pretty simple, don't degrade the purchaser.
Also, buying blocks with the right production code and dates for big bucks basically implies that the purchaser is going to perform fraud. The block will be restamped, and the value of said car will be increased through deceit. The original motor was only made once, and once its gone its gone, sorry to break the news to you! Maybe people should stop trying to sell fraudulent LS6 cars with their $20k original 'restamped' blocks! There are very very good appraisers out there that can tell restamps quite well, i'm sure they can't catch them all but they have done their research better than the 'restampers' have...
In terms of 'comments being a joke'... i have seen a long block 1967 396 core for $800 this summer. There are several date coded rebuilt 1967 396 Long Blocks for sale in the states for $4500. Where are these $20,000 buyers? Perhaps our two 'realities' should get together, i'll yank the motor out of my car for $10k, half price!! : )
Just my on reality. $20,000 just about pays for tuition for one of my three children at a good Canadian University. One is done, one just started, one in the wings. I guess everyone is free to set their own priorities but $20,000 for an engine ? I hear that some people borrow money and run up their credits cards to play in the sandbox. If it's a hobby that's just wrong imho, sounds more like a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an unreasonable idea, otherwise known as obsession.
Are these comments a joke? Has anyone out there kept track of the value of original, date coded, big block engines. Originallity is where its at and if you can't afford to be in the hobby, sell your car for parts and get out, ie, reallity is where its at. Wishfull thinking is one thing, however, there are fewer and fewer of these engines available to restore as I have found out, personally, over the last 20 years. The suffix codes are irrelavent as the date code of the block as well as the part number of the block are the only important numbers ie; 321, 439, 512, etc. including their dates of prodcuction are the ONLY important numbers. In the event a block is restamped and the original block shows up you should not be able to tell the difference and no matter what someone thinks they know, it won't happen. Someone said on this site a long time ago that, us, Candian Pontiac owners are cheap; this is NOT something to be proud of. On the American side of things $15,000-$20,000 is not unreasonable for a date coded, numbers restamped and rebuilt engine for your high performance GM vehicle. Our vehicles are much rarer than an American counterpart and eventually, as we have seen with Beaumont SDs, the interest across North America is rising and the value of the original cars are dramatically increasing. I suppose what I'm getting at is if you don't like the price of something and you cannot afford to purchase it, don't degrade the person that is asking the price as the law of supply and demand governs and the part or car will sell for what its worth, ie we don't need your uneducated input. Doug.
Doug
I'm sorry. I must not be up to date on prices of stuff like that I guess. Maybe I should remove my comment. I certainly don't want to be responsible for someone not buying something they need because they have based their decision on my opinion. I just thought that having more than $5000 in a 396 once it's all re-done seemed excessive. I may not be closely following what is happening out there.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Hi loud, to get back to your question, are you planning on putting the engine in your car? Are you concerned about finding a date correct non-original motor? How you want to use the car/motor will determine the value to you.
If you want period correct and that motor can be freshened up for less than a grand its worth picking up (and if you know its history). Imo, if you are not concerned with trying to be era correct, and since you are doing other handling mods on your car, you may consider another BBC shortblock and aftermarket heads (aluminum) to keep the front end weight down a bit. If you are looking for more power you could put in a 454, with a good set of 781 heads and call it 396 and most people wont know the difference!
Are these comments a joke? Has anyone out there kept track of the value of original, date coded, big block engines. Originallity is where its at and if you can't afford to be in the hobby, sell your car for parts and get out, ie, reallity is where its at.
Before we go any further on this thread, I am sure there is no one on here trying to ruffle feathers or to take "cyber" pokes at anyone on here.......Being part of the hobby, I consider myself as that, a hobbiest and not a hard core collector! I would love to have all the originalities for all my cars and trucks but I, plain and simply, do not have the money! If I were to take 427strato's comment above to heart, my auction would start tomorrow! There are those of us who consider original as King, as it should be, and then there are those of us, such as I, considers another one saved and "reborn" just as important! Absolutely, NONE of my units are original but they are original to what I wanted to do with them using date correct items...as a hobby...and nothing more. But I drive them as I want..... Original means that, and not restamped as ak 67sd stated...I too disagree with that practice but people do get away with it..I would much rather see someone's blood sweat and tears go into something rather than some putz with cash buying it and claiming all the glory... Just my 2 cents.........
Hi loud, to get back to your question, are you planning on putting the engine in your car? Are you concerned about finding a date correct non-original motor? How you want to use the car/motor will determine the value to you.
If you want period correct and that motor can be freshened up for less than a grand its worth picking up (and if you know its history). Imo, if you are not concerned with trying to be era correct, and since you are doing other handling mods on your car, you may consider another BBC shortblock and aftermarket heads (aluminum) to keep the front end weight down a bit. If you are looking for more power you could put in a 454, with a good set of 781 heads and call it 396 and most people wont know the difference!
Andrew
andrew all i was wondering is this my car has a 396 engine in it now from a 71 chevelle that was there when i bought the car but i would like to get a period correct one for the car . it would be for me not for resell as my son would disown me the way i see it the car set up for a bb just not sure of whats a fair price thougth id ask on here that way im not insulting anybody that why i come on here is to learn i dont look at my car as an investment i look at it as my hobby and when i work on it i hope my son enjoys all the work,blood ,sweat and tears(money)that ive put into it . ive never owned a classic before this car so a whole new experience and i love just sometimes people bicker for nothing. as for a 454 for more hp i dont want to go that route cause i dont want to twist the frame on this car maybe ill get a rouch so i can twist the crap out of that one p.s. nice car andrew
I couldnt remember if your car was a BBC or SBC car... Your 396/402 will have some resale value as well, so you could minus that off the new motor price. I think i got a good deal on my rebuilt 396/402, I paid $1400 last year, it had 400 miles on it, roller rockers, arp bolts, KB pistons, alum. intake -it was in the car and I could hear it running. BBCs are worth more (supply/demand) in smaller canadian centres, i look on Craigslist Minneapolis and there's way more selection and cheaper prices! Its a relatively short ride for us in winnipeg to save some $$$.
You should check the date codes on that 67 block and see if they correspond close to what your car would have come with. Unless someone checks the date codes, or pops off a valve cover on your current motor to check the head code then you do have a 'period correct' engine in there...the 67 396 will be 'closer' to the 'period', this is just my opinion, but if its not the original #'s matching motor then its really just up to you to do what you like... the only physical difference (which is internal) is the 402 is .031 over bore from a standard 396 and the heads on the 402 have slightly larger combustion chambers... which with todays gas is probably a better bet anyways...
If you know the motor and it needs very little to get it fresh its probably worth it. If it needs machine work etc, then probably not. There is a 67 396 block/crank in MN for $200usd (it is for sale right now), and a set of 802 heads (67 closed chamber) can be found for $2-300 as cores, then you will spend thousands in machine work/parts/assembly.
Its hard to get a good market indicator on a forum like this for some part/engines because prices can be very 'regional' and shipping motors can be a bit cost prohibitive. Like I mentioned a BBC in winnipeg can be worth $1k more than one 6-7 hours south of here in MN... Kinda like a on old lund s16, worth $500 in Kenora and $1000 in winnipeg...2 hours drive!haha!
thanks for the compliment on the car, i've had it so long now, its the only 'physical' thing i own that i can say i have an attachment to...
Reminds me of the 427 in my car..... It is "period correct" for the car! You just have to buy the car, to find out what period! I'm sure we have fellows here, who have 20G motors, and down... The prices are going up, and with each others help, sounds like we can find them in all price ranges...
Hi guys: its been a while. Ruffle feathers; I guess so. If you haven't got the money to stay with the big boys, get out, as the original cars are where its at, ie: you have an original engine, restamped, or otherwise. The cost of $20.000 was to find an original block, have it rebuilt including dyno work and, yes, restamped and rebroached. This IS the proper way to complete an accurate and complete numbers restoration. In the event an engine WAS restamped properly and the original engine showed up beside it, I don't care who you are, you cannot tell the difference and the car would be restored to perfection. What possibly could be the ultimate difference between replacing a 427 decal on the air cleaner or the engine; they are both non original, however they are both correct. I honestly could not care less whether an individual has a restored car or not because I like them all however values are dramatically different. In the event someone wishes to start an auction on their non original cars, good luck, because they are worth what they are, a hot rod, and don't expect otherwise. The only individuals, that in my experience object to the original restored cars, are those that do not have an original car and that could not possibly afford to complete the same restorations and wish to justify their non original cars. If you can't afford rebroaching and restamping, at about $1,500, then keep to yourself and pretend your car is valuable and or rare. I have had many non original muscle cars and they were great cars, however they were what they were, hot rods. If this ruffles feathers, well thats too bad, it is what it is. Doug.
my 2 cents, as soon as a car is repainted.... it is no longer "original", its been re-painted, an original car in my opinion , has its original paint,eng., trans. and rear end. , as for the 2,500 for a 396 even though Im steppin into unchartered territory, as Ive never owned nor do I care to own a BB, 2,500 seams reasonable to me, even though yea it needs to be cleaned up, so, any SB V8 a guy would normally expect to pay 1,000 for a used motor, and still needing to be cleaned up too, add a couple bux for the rareity, pay the money, git er done, they get rarer everyday, you saw this one, have you seen another around ? no. see... didnt notice you were in Edm., I used to live there too, 97-02, not much old stuff lying around then, gotta be less now
Doug, I would hope that what you have written above, in whatever sort of manner, is not directed towards me!! If it is, and I would hope not, then I would have to take offence! In my reply, I gave cudos to those who do original and that I am just a hobbiest and nothing more. Just because I do not have the original powertrain in my cars, that does not give anyone the right to condemn what I do or have done and that includes ALL people. I, of all people, know what my cars are worth and I don't "pretend" nor "expect" otherwise! And I for one, do not object to original restored cars! To put it another way, my Dad gave me my Rag when I was 15 back in '82. He purposely bought a '67 because I was born in '67. It came from Ontario to Newfoundland, rusty as hell, but my first car. Never drove it till '95. He wanted it Turquise with a white top. Was Sierra Fawn with a black top. Most of the car is a '67 4-dr sedan but I slaved over that car like there was no tomorrow! Was a 327/glide, now a 350efi and a 4-gear. Everyone of my cars are that way. 24 years later, both my parents have passed but I still have the car, and I drive it because of and for him! For that, even though it really is worth nothing on the open market, and I know that, there is absolutely no price tag I can put on it just for that reason! That reason being my Dad, my car and our memories.....It was all about the car at the time! I don't partically care about being original in this case! If you took what I said personal to you, absolutely NOT! I gave praise to those who do them original and that's awesome! For people like myself, I have no problem staying behind the "big boys" but I will definately not get out of my hobby, and to me, it is just that, a hobby! If that erks the purist, sorry......it's just iron!
I'm jumping in because i'm opinionated as the next guy. Heres mama stephzones, rug rats opinion on the car hobby. I like tinkering with old cars. Hot rods if you want to call them that. I dont like originals, never have and never will. I usually couldnt wait till the warranty expired to make it go faster. I respect that some people like to restore and have them as garage art. Great for them as far as Im concerned get them into museum because is where they should be. Im really sorry about Barrett Jackson because I think they ruined the car hobby, all the big dogs as you call them over spending driving up the price of old cars. Strictly for investments not for driving. this is what really irks me. because every thing i have is for driving. it has wheels use it. I remember bench racing with many a fellows while cruising friday night down Carling in Ottawa during the 70s. what mattered was horse power, wide tires and such not original unrestored cars. I have a couple of antique motorcycles, not originals but hot rods as you call them (actually retired race bikes put back on the road). One of my best friends from years ago had one that was the same model as one of mine. But his was original restored. Beautiful bike. Him and I spent many an evening arguing the merits of both even helping each other for parts. If we all had the same interest it would be a very boring world.
hey whats the big deal all i had was 1 question it had nothing to do about original it had to do with period correct engine . the car i have does not have it original power plant but i would like to put a period correct engine in my car this tread had nothing to do withstock or original or hot rod or whatever. i love my car and it will never be for sell it for my son and if it ends up a hotrod good for him more then what i got from mine. brian
Hi guys: its been a while. Ruffle feathers; I guess so. If you haven't got the money to stay with the big boys, get out, as the original cars are where its at, ie: you have an original engine, restamped, or otherwise. The cost of $20.000 was to find an original block, have it rebuilt including dyno work and, yes, restamped and rebroached. This IS the proper way to complete an accurate and complete numbers restoration. In the event an engine WAS restamped properly and the original engine showed up beside it, I don't care who you are, you cannot tell the difference and the car would be restored to perfection. What possibly could be the ultimate difference between replacing a 427 decal on the air cleaner or the engine; they are both non original, however they are both correct
p.s I did say I thought it was worth the money I sold a complete (top to bottom)Dec66 build 67 396 -360 for 1500.00 (1995) He spent another 2000.00 to rebuild it and it is a nice piece.. Myfriend in Moncton has a 427-390 and I think I should buy it....Carl
on reality. $20,000 just about pays for tuition for one of my three children at a good Canadian University. One is done, one just started, one in the wings. I guess everyone is free to set their own priorities but $20,000 for an engine ? I hear that some people borrow money and run up their credits cards to play in the sandbox. If it's a hobby that's just wrong imho, sounds more like a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an unreasonable idea, otherwise known as obsession.
