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Post Info TOPIC: The last 409 Pontiac?


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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The last 409 Pontiac?


Hi guys, I have seen in other parts of the forum some discussion on when GM of Canada made the transition from the 409 to the 396 in 1965.

I talked to my brother who owns a  late production 65 409 4 speed car  and he lent me his GM documentation he had done some years back so maybe we could pin it down.

The documentation gives a shipping date for the car as March 23 1965, which is not quite the same as the production date, which is not given.

I'm assuming the two dates wouldn't be too far apart.

Anyway, it would be interesting to know if anyone knows of a 65 409 car that has a later production or shipping date.

Also, I notice that the tach is not listed as an option even though the car has it so I assume it was standard for either big block cars or 4 speed cars.

In another letter George Zapora was able to confirm that only 74 Custom Sport sport coupes came with the L33 (340 horse) 409.

Maybe this will be of interest to some of you.

Lets talk.

Ken


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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Wow, thats really late-I would have been surprised to see anything past Jan 65 ! and Black too !

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Yeah I kind of wonder if GM might not have sent its last 409s to Canada to use them up so we might have a later end date.

ken

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



A Poncho Legend!

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That is a huge piece of the puzzle for us. I don't think we have seen solid evidence of a 1965 396 Pontiac yet. As 66 Grand Guy says, maybe there are none. Only 74 340 horse, wonder how many 400 HP were made.

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Ray White, Toronto ON

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Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

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Poncho Master!

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I remember seeing a red 65 Custom Sport hardtop with a 409 in Vancouver years ago. It belonged to a friend of a friend who had a 327 4 spd 65 Custom Sport, also red.

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/download.spark?ID=402605&forumID=118110Wow  thanks so much   AS Todd said  a big piece of the puzzle    I have never seen one....

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This info fills some of the gaps about 65 409 production. Thanks for posting.



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Poncho Master!

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WOW...great info!.

With the late delivery, being most cars were shipped within a few days of being built it'd appear to be built long after the US plants switched to Mk. 1V production..

Also this situation brings to mind the question of if Canadian Chevys were also receiving W-Motors after the US plants?.

Is the original engine in the car and if so can you lay the build date on us?. If the original engine is gone, the engine build info could be obtained from Geo. Z. as it should be on the microfishe page..

Until something else w/ a later date shows up, this could certainly be considered as the last 409 built!.

smile.gif



-- Edited by Ghost Post at 09:18, 2009-01-16

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Howdy guys, Thanks for the interest and for blowing up that documentation.  i still can't figure  out how to do that.

Also yes we still have the orginal engine although it is in a 55 GMC at the moment.  When we can get a glimpse at the date code we'll definitely post it.



ken


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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



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66 Grande guy wrote:

Yeah I kind of wonder if GM might not have sent its last 409s to Canada to use them up so we might have a later end date.

ken



I agree, wouldn't be the first time GM has done that.  Not unlike sending all the old tooling down to South America and building stuff for years down there after it has been discontinued here.



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Astro Jet wrote:

66 Grande guy wrote:

Yeah I kind of wonder if GM might not have sent its last 409s to Canada to use them up so we might have a later end date.

ken



I agree, wouldn't be the first time GM has done that.  Not unlike sending all the old tooling down to South America and building stuff for years down there after it has been discontinued here.



So are we leaning to the concept that GM Canada might not have installed 396 CID V8's in any 1965 Ponchos?



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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

1993 Corvette Convertible LT 1

Built January 10, 1993 - Bowling Green Kentucky 

 




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66 Grande guy wrote:

Howdy guys, Thanks for the interest and for blowing up that documentation. 


ken



Where does your brother live Ken?  I think I may have seen this car?



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Hillar

1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
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Poncho Master!

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73SC wrote:

So are we leaning to the concept that GM Canada might not have installed 396 CID V8's in any 1965 Ponchos?



Unless someone can produce some documentation showing same, I would agree.  I don't think GM of Canada was big on major mid year changes, can you think of another instance where they did something equivalent to this?  Being a smaller market, I think things were pretty well set in stone at the beginning of the production year.  There was pressure to get the new Mark IV out in the US because of NASCAR, and Pontiac was cleaning Chevy's clock in the muscle car wars by having big cube engine to offer in the GTO while the Chevelle could only be ordered with a 327.


-- Edited by Astro Jet at 14:53, 2009-01-16

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Hillar

1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
-and a bunch of other muscle cars...


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Hi I doubt you would have seen this car running. it hasn't been on the road for about 20 years.  We live up in Lac la Biche in northern Alberta.

Right now its waitiing its turn for restoration sitting outside.  If it is the last 409 car we'll probably move it to place of honour though!

 I'll post a picture.

ken

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



Poncho Master!

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Well there is someone in the west end of the GTA who has a 65 Pontiac with a 409.  I last saw it a cruise night at a Canadian Tire on Dundas in Mississauga.

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1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp
-and a bunch of other muscle cars...


A Poncho Legend!

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and the photos are;    lost?  misplaced?  wet?  sold?  eaten by the dog....

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A Poncho Legend!

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Maybe we want to acquire that car for our museum. The last 409 in North America just might be a Canadian Poncho!

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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

1993 Corvette Convertible LT 1

Built January 10, 1993 - Bowling Green Kentucky 

 




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HI guys, here are a few pictures of the tired old beast.  Sorry about the snow.  There was just too much to tackle.  I 'll get a better picture when some of  the snow melts.  The engine is the one from the car but it is in the bay of a 55 GMC.  Pretty rough looking but worth reuniting eh?

I couldn't get a peek at any of the date codes where it is sittiing. We'll have to drag it out and get a look.

I'll post when I get those.

ken


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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



A Poncho Legend!

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Sounds like this car will be worthy of a full nut and bolt resto. She'll be a real looker esp being black on black. I wonder how many 409 cars came factory with a block heater??



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69Laurentian wrote:

Sounds like this car will be worthy of a full nut and bolt resto. She'll be a real looker esp being black on black. I wonder how many 409 cars came factory with a block heater??



My deepwater blue 67 SD 396 had a factory block heater, I used to leave the plug hanging out of thegrille for cruise night-made for a conversation piece amongst lookers.



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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This car must have been ordered by somebody who wanted to go summer or winter!  It must have been a real bear in the snow.

I know it was a real torque monster.  I remember one of those famous occasions when my brother said OK, watch this! and really punched it!  We got through first and when he shifted into second we felt this big lurch and watched the driveshaft twirl its way into the ditch. Cracked the bellhousing almost all the way around. What a beast!

Thinking about that stuff sure makes me think I'd love to see it going again.  My brother works in the bush (one week in and a week out) so he doesn't know any of this latest info.  Once he sees how you guys value this thing, I have a feeling we're going to start something soon. It s just kind  of languishing out there, looking kind of sad.

When I think of the times when I was young and foolish that  I told him to dump the body and just keep the engine!

ken



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



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Wow, that is a very important piece of Canadian Pontiac history. When can I come and pick it up rofl.gif

Yes, that car needs to be re-assembled, for sure.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars



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Het Carl, when he gets out of the bush, I'll tell him you came by and took it.  Its time he had his first heart attack anyway!

ken

-- Edited by 66 Grande guy at 12:29, 2009-02-22

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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS (temporary, according to my wife)



A Poncho Legend!

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66 Grande guy wrote:

  Its time he had his first heart attack away!

ken



         whisper.gif      pray.gif



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A Poncho Legend!

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66 Grande guy wrote:

Het Carl, when he gets out of the bush, I'll tell him you came by and took it. Its time he had his first heart attack away!

ken



I think I'd have my first heart attack knowing I was doing that to someone, taking away his 409 Pontiac!

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars

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