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Post Info TOPIC: pilot shaft bearing or bushing


A Poncho Legend!

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pilot shaft bearing or bushing


I have a roller bearing from last years project and it is not lubed and seems "catchy"    I also have a bronze bushing that doen't need lubed   Do I go with the tried and true bushing??

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Poncho Master!

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I would use the roller bearing one Carl, you don't feel it spinning when the pedal is depressed.
ARCADIAN

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A Poncho Legend!

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do I have to grease it? 


-- Edited by 427carl on Wednesday 20th of May 2009 02:26:39 PM

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Uber Guru

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 Sintered bushing all the way! Sorry ARCADIAN.......Reason being and C1 can contest to this is that when the bearing fails, and I have seen many on the 6.5 diesels, it tends to chew the heck out of the pilot bushing surface of the input shaft. Ask any GM parts man that!!! I put a bearing in my '70 before I saw what it did to the input shaft and I will change it the next time I have the trans out.
 NOW, that being said, it does depend on your clutch "habit"! I have one guy here who swears that he doesn't ride the clutch at stop lights and signs but the way he went through the bearings and then finally the bushings, plus a couple of shafts on top of that, well, lets just say I have a very difficult time believing him!!! 
 I would/will use a bushing...........
 

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Vincent Jr.



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Ok, I have been using a roller bearing unti I purchased new with  a new Centre Force Dual Friction 11 inch clutch assembly including their self aligning release bearing and have had 19,000 trouble free miles. I have used the sintered bushings over the years and have sometimes felt the bushing spinning when the clutch pedal is depressed.
ARCADIAN

-- Edited by ARCADIAN on Wednesday 20th of May 2009 01:57:33 PM

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 Maybe it was just some of the different drivers I have had use them and you and I have had good luck with them!! Again, just personal experience and what I have seen at the dealers!!

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Vincent Jr.



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Do I grease the roller bearing?  wheel bearing grease?   Do I lube the sintered bushing?

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A Poncho Legend!

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do I lube them ? 

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Poncho Master!

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Carl, when I researched this issue I came to some conclusions.
1. There are lots of differing opinions.
2. The bushing would be less likely to have lots of little bits floating around if it got worn.
3. The bushing is supposed to be self lubricating so no grease is required.
4. I know nothing, so I used cam lube to help get everything in place. Couldn't hurt right?
5. Dont use the tranny bolts to torque it all into place.



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1967 Strato Chief


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A Poncho Legend!

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I read the roller bearing was pre-lubed so I put it in I used the black plastic thing to keep clutch disc aligned how do I take it out?

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Poncho Master!

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Clutch aligned, install pressure plate, torque properly, pull black plastic thing out and then pray that tranny will slide all the way in.

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1967 Strato Chief


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A Poncho Legend!

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I mentioned the roller bearing was a little fussy, to slide in pilot shaft "out of the car"?      

-- Edited by 427carl on Friday 22nd of May 2009 07:59:36 AM

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 One thing I have found with those plastic, if it is, shafts that they give you in the clutch kit, is they are not near precise as the input shaft off of the transmission! I have had the same issue with a gearbox from a '85 1-ton that would not go in. I removed the bell housing and lined it up with my dummy shaft from an old gear box and voila!!!!
 Now why I used that plastic one I am not sure. Probably too lazy to find it in my tool box....! From then on, the real mcoy for me! Also have the 26 spline for the Warners and the smaller version for my 2.8 T-10 pickup.
 P.S. Also make sure you have a yolk in the tail shaft and trans in gear so you can manually line the splines by turning the yolk. (Sorry if you have already tried this)

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Vincent Jr.



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good advice vince.

helped a neighbor years ago do his clutch in his f@rd p/up, we didn't have an align shaft to use.
eyeballed the disc as close as we could, trans wouldn't go in.
so we hooked up the clutch linkage, pushed the pedal down and then slid the trans right in.

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Poncho Master!

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Carl,
Do you have help?
Do you need help?

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1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


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A Poncho Legend!

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I will try your suggestions   last year, the other trans, slid in using the same parts!  I will pull the bell, and use a bushing instead of "catchy" roller bearing    I have a floor jack as a helper!    I will get it in!   just need to walk away from it....  car has been sitting (99.9% of time) since 06   I guess there no rush!!   thanks

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427carl wrote:

I just need to walk away from it.... 




  And that in itself works near 90% of the time for me as well!!!! Come back 5 minutes later after your heatbeat is back to normal from the 180 beats per minute it was 5 minutes previous, your face no longer the colour of a new bright red fire truck, and it usually falls into place itself............ Time for a beer.gif...... or 6!!!!



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Vincent Jr.



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Had I known you were into this today Carl I would have come out and helped. I have the day off. I took my Pontiac in for an alignment at 7:45am. The shop figured an hour. It's been 3 hours. I know the service manager so he gave me his car to get home. Now I wait.... Turns out it was the first time the front end guy has done an alignment on this type of suspension.


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A Poncho Legend!

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When 68 327 4spd Brian was here today, I showed him, the "bushing" I was going to install, to replace roller bearing that wont take nose of Muncie..  I took it out of package and tried to "slip it" on the pilot shaft sitting there... IT DOESN'T FIT!   It seems I have the "only Muncie" in the world with a new pilot shaft that won't take a bearing or bushing   Last years trans was the rear!!   So I contacted Peter,(who built the trans) and has installed several of these "new" pilot shafts and no problem with bushing (he won't use roller bearing- hes old school) He installed 1 this past Monday, and had no problem...  so it seems that everything, Carl buys has a problem  If it was a can of beans, mine would have a dent!   lol   So thank God Carl has another Pontiac with a Chevy motor to drive....(it is like 2nd house, didn't sell)   so poor me!  Some days you are the Pigeon, and some days you are the post....  whats wrong with automatics anyway?  smile10.jpg6.jpg

-- Edited by 427carl on Friday 22nd of May 2009 06:52:55 PM

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A Poncho Legend!

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9.jpg8.jpg

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A Poncho Legend!

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Do you have a digital caliper Carl? Can you get me the diameter of the input shaft?

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1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars



A Poncho Legend!

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no sir   no fancy tools   I am going to take trans to the "parts places" and try their stock, until I get one to fit!!!

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 From my experience, I would summize you have an oversized input shaft. Since the bearing and the bushing were too small, it is highly unlikely that the bearing/bushing are at fault. Try the plastic alignment input shaft tool and see how it fits! 
 I would suspect that you are going to have to mill the bushing to fit the shaft. And if that is the case, do 2 or 3 of them at the same time and have the others for spares!!
 And your quote of "whats wrong with automatics anyway?" My response, "no fun and very boring"!!!! But that is just me...biggrin
 

 



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Saturday 23rd of May 2009 07:34:49 AM

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Vincent Jr.



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I have read that some guys filed the bushings to fit. Apparently the tolerances are not all the same.

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1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


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A Poncho Legend!

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Yes I read that as well    I have not pulled the bell off yet, but the roller bearing I used last year (for a day) did slid on shaft, this past Wednesday, but was a little fussy to get on , with trans sitting on floor....  so it seems impossible for me (1) trying to push/wiggle trans in 2 feet off floor on my back...  I will report back today!

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