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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> Hillar's General 65-70 Full Size Forum -> '67 2+2 decode help?
Post Info TOPIC: '67 2+2 decode help?
DPelletier


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'67 2+2 decode help?
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Hi guys,

My Dad has found a car he's thinking of buying and he's asked me for my input sence I'm the family "car guy". I'm afraid I'm not up to snuff on Canadian Pontiac info as I currently have two Mopars. Before you string me up, I used to have several GM cars including two '67 Impala SS's (one ht and one 'vert) as well as a '70 442 W30 and assorted other GM A and B bodies.

He's wanted a '67 Pontiac 2+2 for awhile as he bought one new in '67. The info on the Data tag is as follows;

VIN 7688771125757

Style  76887   2-12-21.

Body No. OS 726708

Paint 9Cc 

Trim 521

A31  M40  U80


What the car APPEARS to be is a white with red gut '67 Parisienne 2+2. Currently sports a 396 and TH400 which the seller claims is original. I'm trying to verify that;

 - The series # just gives you V-8, not displacement correct?

 - Did they use the TH400 in '67 or were they all powerglides? Any way to tell if this car came with the TH400? Were there any small block TH400's?

 - Is the engine and tranny stamped with the VIN or partial VIN in '67?

 - Any idea on production #'s

 - How many different 396's did they make in '67 full size Canadian Pontiacs? 2bbl, 4bbl? hp?

Thank you, in advance, for any or all responses. I will at this time apologize for asking questions that are undoubtably contained elsewhere on this fine site!

Cheers,
Dave Pelletier




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Stephenzone


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fred works till 930. i know he can break it down for you

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sTevE

55 GMC, 70 Pontiac 2+2 rag
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Beaumont4008


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Welcome to the site,  I can tell you the code M40 is for a turbo 400

U80 is rear speakers

A31 is power windows

Fred can tell you the rest.



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427carl


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Welcome!    make sure he buys it     my 67 Beaumont had a 400 turbo

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DPelletier


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Thanks guys!

I'm thinkin' a TH400 meant big block, but .........


Dave



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67rag396


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Production was somewhere around 3,800 for 2+2 Hardtops and 1,400 convertibles.
There were 2 automatic transmission choices, powerglide and turbo 400.
There is no VIN # on the engine.
I believe the only 396 option was 325 hp which had a 4 barrel quadrajet carb.

Rick



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1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


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4SPEED427


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DPelletier wrote:

Thanks guys!

I'm thinkin' a TH400 meant big block, but .........


Dave


Usually, but not a guarantee.

I have seen a 67 Caprice 327/TH400 combo that I believed to be factory. As always, corrections welcomed!



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
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DPelletier


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Thanks again guys!

If no VIN on the block and no indication of the 396 in the VIN or data tag AND the TH400 was used with the 327, then it sounds like there is no way to ascertain whether or not this is (for sure) an original big block car. This is odd to me as a mopar guy; my Super Bee has the engine code in the VIN and three times on the fender tag! Oh well.

Any hints to see if it is LIKELY a factory big block car? 12 bolt rear? different front springs? radiator? anything?

When I had my W30, GM Canada kept records and sent me a letter documenting the car and it's options. Do they still do that? Do these records still exist?

Again, sorry for all the newbie questions

Cheers,
Dave

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67rag396


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There is very little to distinguish a 396 car. I believe the accelerator arm at the firewall is different between BBC and SBC.
The passenger side head has a number stamped on the pad in front of the valve cover. This should correspond to the number sent from GM if you get it. It is not the VIN.

GM information if you want to pay money for the build documentation.



-- Edited by 67rag396 on Friday 5th of June 2009 08:04:11 AM

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1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


Remember, "The Government" only has money confiscated from us.

 

 
seventy2plus2


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while the VIN wasn't stamped on the block in 67, the engine code should be stamped on the pad in front of the passenger side cylinder head.  What is stamped there?  What is the engine casting number behind the drivers side head? 

The engine stamping should be Txxxxyyy with the xxxx being month / day, and the yyy being the code indiccating what engine it is. 

If you can provide the stamping, we can see if the last few letters jive with the code for a full 67 size car 396.  Also, I see above the trim tag has car built on Dec 21 '66, so the theory is engine would have been built prior to that (lets say late November, early December.    So T11xxyyy or T12xxyyyy)   
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 5th of June 2009 09:14:25 AM

-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 5th of June 2009 09:18:47 AM

-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 5th of June 2009 09:21:52 AM

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70 2+2 convertible
70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop

 

 
DPelletier


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Thanks again. I'll see if my dad can get the info off the motor.

Cheers,
Dave


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DPelletier


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.....I faxed the Vintage Vehicle Service this morning, so I'll see what that tells me. I'll keep you posted in case anyone is curious.

Dave


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67rag396


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Always interested Dave. Information is good.

Rick

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1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


Remember, "The Government" only has money confiscated from us.

 

 
DPelletier


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I faxed it with my CC info, so I should get the "rush" service. Hopefully I'll hear something today; my dad is getting a little ansy.

He bought a brand new '67 2+2 which he loved dearly. One day he woke up and looked out to see my grandfather shoveling snow off his new car with an aluminum shovel! All the scratches depressed him and he got rid of it shortly afterwards and he's been pining for a replacement on and off over the last 40+ years so I hope this one works out!

I'm a bit of an oddity as far as classic car buffs go as I'm a big fan of the full size cars. I don't have one now, just my '70 Super Bee and my wife's 'Cuda; but I find myself lusting after another full size GM..........

Thanks again for the help and I also wanted to take the opportunity to say that this seems like a great site with a really good bunch of guys!

Cheers,
Dave



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Elroy


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Rick, isn't your 396 VIN stamped ?

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67rag396


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Nope, no VIN in 67, only production number.

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1967 Parisienne 2+2
1967 Grande Parisienne

1967 Laurentian
1967 Strato Chief


Remember, "The Government" only has money confiscated from us.

 

 
Elroy


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Ok thanks Rick. Same as the tranny too I guess.

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Elroy


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On the production list I posted a while back, there are some 67 TH400 327s I think too.

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2qwik2c


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 There were no VIN's stamped on the blocks in 67?? I thought this had to be done incase a car was stolen etc??? The engine could be identified then as a stolen one or something??? confuse

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1967 2dr Biscayne. L36, M40, G80, K05, F41. #'s.
1967 Impala convert. 283, glide. Parked in the garage since 74 and hasn't moved. Soon to be BB 4speed.

 
DPelletier


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Just an update for you guys;

Dad bought the car. I haven't seen it, but he said it's pretty solid and in good mechanical/driving condition. Interior is fairly nice and intact.

We recieved the GM paperwork from George as recommended by a previous poster. The car was optioned as follows;

Provincial White
Red Vinyl buckets
Tinted windshield
power windows
deluxe front and rear seat belts
power brakes,
396, 325hp 4bbl Astro Jet V8
THM 400 3 spd auto
tilt wheel
power steering
wire wheel covers
w/wall tires
AM radio
rear speaker.

Car was sold new at Trapp Motors Ltd. in New Westminster, B.C. which was (coincidentally) the same dealership that Dad bought his '67 2+2 in the spring of 1967.

Cheers, and thanks again for all your help.

Dave Pelletier


PS. Oh, George gave us an engine number (T12121V). Is this a part # or serial # (i.e. is it unique to THIS car or just correct for a '67 Astro Jet)?



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427carl


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Congratulations!!!!    A Winner!  clap.gif

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427carl


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427carl


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DPelletier wrote:




PS. Oh, George gave us an engine number (T12121V). Is this a part # or serial # (i.e. is it unique to THIS car or just correct for a '67 Astro Jet)?


         T for Tonawanda  12/12 is date  and "IV  is a chevrolet engine  wink

 



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DPelletier


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Thanks;

I'll check to see if the motor has the right date code, but I was more concerned with documenting the car as an original BB car.

Thanks again

Dave

-- Edited by DPelletier on Tuesday 9th of June 2009 03:31:32 PM

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Elroy


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Your engine no should be on the pad on the block forward of the RH cylinder head and should be the 1212IV unless your engine was decked at one time or changed out. The date coding says your engine was stamped on the 12th and the body was built on the 21st. Interestingly enough your questions on the M40 , I checked my original ordering brochure and it states the M40 is only optional on 2+2 or Grande Parisienne models. In all cases the M40 is optional as your 396 car could have had a powerglide or a manual tranny too, or it could have been a 327 M40 combo as well. I happen to have an IV 396 in a crate as well. Its out of a 69 wagon though so dates would not work.

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