To me pretty well impossible but I'll pass on the story I heard this weekend while in Vancouver. I regularily stop in at this shop KMS tools. They have a building also dedicated to classic repro parts, usually a few cars for restoration, and quite a varied supply of car parts from just about everything. The building is just crammed with engines, trannies, doors, hoods, fenders, and everything else car related. Have talked to this one guy previously and when I was asking him some questions about some 64 Beaumont stuff he told me about this 409 Beaumont he knows of. The story really sounds legite but I wasn't born yesterday but I have no reason to think he is making it up. I can't quite remember the connection but it was something like his father-in-laws aunt or something but I'll get on with the story, sorry about rambling. She ordered the car and requested that they put in the largest engine available. He saw the car in the early 80's and said he first noticed the exhaust system on the car being different. He then saw the documentation on it in the glove box and it said it was a 409. He talked to the family and they said the car has never been touched as she has had it since new. It hasn't been on the road since about 1970 and she is in an old folks home so it probably won't be sold until it becomes part of her estate. He has last seen it about 4 years ago and it's located on the B.C. coast. He thinks he is still the first in line for the opportunity to buy it. I asked him if they had any idea what they have there and he said they just call it her old car. Sounded like a bit of a whopper story but this guy is one of the main employees from this shop. After hearing some of these Canadian only stories nothing would surprise me at this stage. Was interesting conversation anyhow and was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of this car.
-- Edited by jmont64 on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 04:10:45 PM
Well when it comes to Oshawa I've learnt to never say never (except when it comes to putting 396s into GTOs ) so I guess we will just have to wait and see. It will come to down to the VIN, the data plate and what Vintage Vehicle Services says.
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1970 LS4 (eventually an LS5) Laurentian 2dr hdtp -and a bunch of other muscle cars...
One of my buddies has a 65 impala with a 409 the car is not a 9er car originaly but he found out there were 8oo cars made,otherwise 396 or sbc. TMFBI69
If we say, "Mr. Z", all the same time, do you think he would hear us and possibly give us a "round about" answer??????
Speaking of this, and I have to get the story again, had an older gentleman brother of a friend who was quite serious about a story of his friend having a '66 full size Pontiac or Chev with a factory ordered 409 installed in it? When I stated it must have been a 396, hoo boy, his voice raised about 6 notches and said in no uncertain terms that it WAS a 409!!!
I will try and get the full story again... What do you guys think???
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 09:49:57 PM
Any chance of contacting this guy again and at least getting a VIN? Can you imagine if this is legit??
I've got his name and could probably get in touch with him by email at their shop. The car is outside of Vancouver so I don't think he gets out that way very often. As I mentioned he had last seen it 4 years ago. I'm a bit swamped right now but will try pursue it in the next couple of weeks.
Maximum 400 horsepower in '65 409. I'll take mine in a 2 door Biscayne thank you.
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If you are willing to release his name I have another friend who is one of the top parts guys there. I can find out what kind of person you were talking to (Starved for attention) or maybe there is some truth to this
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Speaking of this, and I have to get the story again, had an older gentleman brother of a friend who was quite serious about a story of his friend having a '66 full size Pontiac or Chev with a factory ordered 409 installed in it? When I stated it must have been a 396, hoo boy, his voice raised about 6 notches and said in no uncertain terms that it WAS a 409!!!
I will try and get the full story again... What do you guys think???
Based on everything we have discussed and upturned on this site in the past year I am willing to say no way on this one. Even George Z chimmed in on the 396 question in '65 Pontiacs and we know that never happend now. We even have a line on what we think might be one of the last 409 Installations in Oshawa and that is in a '65 Custom Sport.
409 Beaumont ? We have recently recieved some interesting facts from well placed sources like small block powered Firebirds for one. Could be another CKD job but I doubt it. The big reason for me is because the A body small blocks never used rams horn exhaust manifolds. All A bodies have manifolds which exit at the rear because the frame cross member does not allow a straight down exhaust outlets. The 409 and 348's used a manifold similar to the rams horn and although they might build one car a certain way there is no way they cast one pair of exhaust manifolds for a special order Canadian Car. JMHO.
W SERIES Exhaust manifold for full sized cars and trucks.
Rams Horn Small Block manifolds, Full sized cars, Corvettes, Pickups, Suburbans
A Body exhaust maniufolds from 1964 on up
-- Edited by 73SC on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 04:52:01 PM
Speaking of this, and I have to get the story again, had an older gentleman brother of a friend who was quite serious about a story of his friend having a '66 full size Pontiac or Chev with a factory ordered 409 installed in it? When I stated it must have been a 396, hoo boy, his voice raised about 6 notches and said in no uncertain terms that it WAS a 409!!!
I will try and get the full story again... What do you guys think???
Based on everything we have discussed and upturned on this site in the past year I am willing to say no way on this one. Even George Z chimmed in on the 396 question in '65 Pontiacs and we know that never happend now. We even have a line on what we think might be one of the last 409 Installations in Oshawa and that is in a '65 Custom Sport.
409 Beaumont ? We have recently recieved some interesting facts from well placed sources like small block powered Firebirds for one. Could be another CKD job but I doubt it. The big reason for me is because the A body small blocks never used rams horn exhaust manifolds. All A bodies have manifolds which exit at the rear because the frame cross member does not allow a straight down exhaust outlets. The 409 and 348's used a manifold similar to the rams horn and although they might build one car a certain way there is no way they cast one pair of exhaust manifolds for a special order Canadian Car. JMHO.
W SERIES Exhaust manifold for full sized cars and trucks.
Rams Horn Small Block manifolds, Full sized cars, Corvettes, Pickups, Suburbans
A Body exhaust maniufolds from 1964 on up
-- Edited by 73SC on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 04:52:01 PM
The exhaust scenerio would be one of a few things they'd have to work around but it was the paperwork that made me think there may be a chance. You just never know in these plants when different personel are involved what kind of challenge they will take on. One of my best friends was one of the engineers with Western Star when the;y were still in Kelowna. Quite a percentage of their trucks were custom ordered and involved the obvious choices of powertrain, frame lengths, color, interior, 4x4, and so on but I remember them doing stuff in the mid 70's for guys that was quite radical. Alot of it depended on the people that were in charge at that time and how busy they were in the following months. I'm definetely not holding my breath or putting any money on it but I did email him for a duplicate of the paperwork. We'll see if anything happens or if it will dissappear with the smoke.
If you are willing to release his name I have another friend who is one of the top parts guys there. I can find out what kind of person you were talking to (Starved for attention) or maybe there is some truth to this
No problem, his name is Marcel Smutek. See what you can find out.
jmont64 wrote: I'm definetely not holding my breath or putting any money on it but I did email him for a duplicate of the paperwork. We'll see if anything happens or if it will dissappear with the smoke.
Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping it turns out to be true as well. It is just a lot different than a 427 showing up in say a 67 Beuamont if you get my thinking, at least a 396 was available so not a huge stretch. Same as Jim Wangers pulled with the 64 Tempest/GTO, 326 to 389 no biggy since blocks are same then he even dupped the Road and Track guys with a 421 which is basically the same block again.
If we say, "Mr. Z", all the same time, do you think he would hear us and possibly give us a "round about" answer??????
Speaking of this, and I have to get the story again, had an older gentleman brother of a friend who was quite serious about a story of his friend having a '66 full size Pontiac or Chev with a factory ordered 409 installed in it? When I stated it must have been a 396, hoo boy, his voice raised about 6 notches and said in no uncertain terms that it WAS a 409!!!
I will try and get the full story again... What do you guys think???
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Sunday 2nd of August 2009 09:49:57 PM
probably right with the cubes, wrong with the year (they look similar) 65-watch him raise his voice 12 notches
My Dad says his neighbour bought a new 57 chev with a 327 4bbl !!! I think it was a few years yet before you could get that.
.. and I talked to the owner of a 55 Pontiac a few weeks ago who told me it had the original 283, Hmmm two full years before the 283 was produced, NOT, it was a 265 if it was original.
I look forward to the GM Canada paperwork if it happens but vote no way it'll show the W-Motor in an A-Body combination..
I do know GM Engineering had a W-Motor 'Vette but would doubt the subject car is something built beyond available RPO's w/ a W-Motor by Engineering either?.
Although highly unlikely, this car turning out to be a '65 w/ a Z16 or other Mk1V piece may be more of a possibility...especially considering the genuine '65 Chevelle Post car that was built!?
Besides factory built cars, the chances of a W-Motor being put into the car in earlier years is possible?. By an individual or dealer, who knows but being in BC I suppose we shouldn't count the Conroy possibility out either?.
Cool subject though!. Regardless of the outcome here I hope something real in a '65 Beaumont Mk1V shows up someday!.
-- Edited by Ghost Post on Wednesday 5th of August 2009 10:30:07 AM
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just read this old thread,,nothing ever came of it??
I have a similiar story, a friend bought a 64 Nova with a 409,,, I heard all about before seeing it , of course it was not the original to the car, it had a drop axle and vinyl metallic interior .... 60's hot rod !
so the story had grown by the time I went and to see it ,,
YES it was a 409..a punched out 396 BBC !! BUT anyone who talked about the car called it a 409 !!
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