Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a couple of questions

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a couple of questions

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

1) Yes, except you threw in a trick question because Beaumonts are not Pontiacs!!! wink

2) People disagree with me but I say no. Only if the dealer had some kind of special arrangement with a US dealer is my opinion (which people say is wrong!)

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

1. Oh dear, color me embarrassed, I should know that Beaumonts were a separate line, it has been noted numerous times here, I am sorry. I should have said: Canadian-built Beaumonts which were sold by Pontiac dealers in Canada, right?

2. Interesting. If any GTO's were sold by Canadian Pontiac dealers, they would have been manufactured in the US, right? So would the buyer have had to pay some import fee?

Thanks,
Dave

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Because we are talking 67 or older, no GTOs were built in Canada.

I am not sure how it worked with importing but I have heard that is why we don't see many early GTO's here. They say it cost too much to buy one in comparison.

68sd · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Hillar knew this topic cold, but I did manage to learn from him so here goes.

American models could be imported into Canada through certain dealers, usually dealers who were large volume and respected within GM's chain. In Toronto for instance the dealer Hogan Pontiac Buick was importing GTO's since 1964. Hillar had a Road & Track magazine with an ad from Hogan back in 64.

So if you went into a Pontiac dealer you would not find a sales brochure for a GTO or Bonneveille or Grand Prix BUT if you were willing to wait and pony up the import duties etc.. it could be done. GM Canada would be listed as importer when you order the documents from Vintage.

1969 was the first year that a GTO was available in the mainstream system, 1970 was first year for Bonneville and Grand Prix, LeMans & Tempest.

So bottom line is 1968 and prior GTO's were imported on request basis. 1969 both GTO and Beaumont SD available in Pontiac dealers in Canada.

PS: Only years GTO was made in Oshawa was 1970 and 1973.

-- Edited by 73SC on Tuesday 6th of April 2010 04:51:52 PM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:

1) Yes, except you threw in a trick question because Beaumonts are not Pontiacs!!!

We seem to have established that the Beaumonts and Acadians are not Pontiacs, as we had all previously thought. What would be the best way to describe them? They were "only built" by General motors so would they be GM or just orphans..? I personally (seriously) am surprised that the owners, would not want a relationship with Pontiac.. but that being so, are they happy either GM or orphan? This was a legit question by Dave.. the loveable American

03cts sport · Uber Guru

Anything I say might be percieved as stirring the Beaumont/Pontiac debate. Suffice to say, I'd be thrilled if there were no disputing that the Beaumont is a Pontiac. However, the contrary position seems valid. As a result, I continue to be the proud owner of an exclusively Cdn built Beaumont that has taken from amoung the best of both Pontiac and Chevrolet. (A Beaumont can justifiably wear either Pontiac ralley II's or 'Vette/Camaro ralley wheels. A Chevelle can't do that.)

CDN2PLS2 · Uber Guru

I have the Bill of Sale for my '68 GTO sold in London,and it was expensive.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

CDN2PLS2 wrote:

I have the Bill of Sale for my '68 GTO sold in London,and it was expensive.

Where was that car made Mark? I'm guessing Michigan, be interested in knowing.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

427carl wrote:

Carl Stevenson wrote:

1) Yes, except you threw in a trick question because Beaumonts are not Pontiacs!!!
We seem to have established that the Beaumonts and Acadians are not Pontiacs, as we had all previously thought. What would be the best way to describe them? They were "only built" by General motors so would they be GM or just orphans..? I personally (seriously) am surprised that the owners, would not want a relationship with Pontiac.. but that being so, are they happy either GM or orphan? This was a legit question by Dave.. the loveable American

I am fine with this because I lived through the days when these cars were new, in fact mom drove me to school in an 63 Acadian, 4 door. The only reason Dad bought it was because it was a Pontiac and we were a Pontiac family. There was no dispute back then on what it was, everybody called them Pontiac Acadians. It's all a load to me to those who refute it, sorry, there it is.

When someone said Pontiac everybody knew they meant a big B body so the argument that books and manuals say Acadaian or Beamount proves that it was a distinct marque does not hold any water, it was just naming convention so people knew what was being discussed. You won't find Pontiac on a LeMans or Firebird FSM either, same reason, just a way to differentiate the car lines from the big cars which were the standard of the day.

Vintage Services always lists these cars as Pontiacs but too many people who weren't there when want to rewite history today. We had a Pontiac Acadian when I was a boy and if I ever get another Acadian or Beaumont in the future I'll be sure to call it a Pontiac at every chance I get.

Everybody in Canada knows exactly what you mean when you say "I've got a 63 Pontiac Acadian or I've got a 67 Pontiac Beaumont."

67Poncho · Uber Guru

73SC wrote:

Everybody in Canada knows exactly what you mean when you say "I've got a 63 Pontiac Acadian or I've got a 67 Pontiac Beaumont."

I call them Pontiacs too........... This is my chassis manual, I believe it says it as well!!

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 6th of April 2010 07:07:05 PM

unclebernie · Guru

My '72 Lemans has the PONTIAC script across the trunklid.

Lefty · Uber Guru

My car was originally registered as 193 Pontiac Acadian Sport Deluxe Acadian
then it changed to just Acadian,
I was told because tere were no discriptions to match what it was before, tried to get it changed but gave up.

since 1983 · Poncho Master!

well there is one thing i might add.....................i never saw any chevrolet inscription on any early chevelles ?????

same thing for the Beaumont !

-- Edited by since 1983 on Tuesday 6th of April 2010 08:56:12 PM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

My '72 Lemans has the PONTIAC script across the trunklid.

John after mid 71's they were sold with Pontiac logo's
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73SC wrote:

Everybody in Canada knows exactly what you mean when you say "I've got a 63 Pontiac Acadian or I've got a 67 Pontiac Beaumont."

yes even on the internet you don't much, until you type in Pontiac ahead of them!
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Anything I say might be percieved as stirring the Beaumont/Pontiac debate. Suffice to say, I'd be thrilled if there were no disputing that the Beaumont is a Pontiac. However, the contrary position seems valid. As a result, I continue to be the proud owner of an exclusively Cdn built Beaumont that has taken from amoung the best of both Pontiac and Chevrolet. (A Beaumont can justifiably wear either Pontiac ralley II's or 'Vette/Camaro ralley wheels. A Chevelle can't do that.)

good points do you call it a GM or a orphan lol thanks for your nice replys Carl

67rag396 · Poncho Master!

pontiac acadian.jpg

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

unclebernie wrote:

My '72 Lemans has the PONTIAC script across the trunklid.

Just for clarification, what I said above was:

"You won't find Pontiac on a LeMans or Firebird FSM either"

FSM is Factory Service Manual so I was not referring to the actual body work on the cars themselves.

Even so there are plenty of examples where Pontiac does not appear on cars we know are Pontiacs, take a 67 Grand Prix for example as well as say a 61 Bonneville. No word Pontiac on those and no one will dispute what they are that's for sure.

1961 Bonneville z.jpg

1961 Bonneville grille.jpg

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

This debate is quite interesting to follow... I'll stick to what I believe to be reasonable given the rational evidence/logic shown... the car is it's own marque. There is no period evidence from GM calling the cars a pontiac... When I first bought my car, i called it a pontiac beaumont...even though it was registered as a chev beaumont. I know that most people would understand and many think that calling it a Pontiac Beaumont is correct... there are cases when something is repeated enough it becomes truth (which is unfortunate that George perpetuates the myth), even if it's not, but if it's understood by many it could then almost become real. It's like buying a pickeral filet in manitoba...the majority of manitobans believe it to be true, but pickerals do not exist in manitoba, but walleye does.

ak

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Well Andrew, I can see your very valid points too. The important thing is we all communicate repectfully and in the good natured spirit that is a hallmark of this site. One time this got ugly

. One thing a wise person told me once was this: Perception is Reality. Don't know if that is helpful but it sounds good. smile

chevy4ever · Addicted!

Something I remember when I bought my car in 1980 the car was called a 1967 acadian beaumont. In the 1990s the papers came as a 1967 pontiac beaumont. Ishould have kept the paperwork for this forum.

Coop · Addicted!

davelacourse wrote:

Let's keep it at 64-67 years.

1. Were Chevrolet Chevelles built and sold in Canada, at the same time that Pontiac Beaumonts were built and sold in Canada?

2. Were Pontiac GTO's sold in Canada?

TIA for shedding light on my lack of knowledge.

Dave

Hi Dave,

When I bought my Beaumont in 1967 I was also dealing on a 1967 GTO. At that time Stampede Pontiac Buick had one big block Beaumont and Calgary Motor Products had two GTOs in stock. The big issue for me was cost. I don't remember exactly what the GTO was listed at but as I recall it was about $1000 more than what I paid for the Beaumont. My memory is a little fuzzier on why Stampede Pontiac Buick didn't have a GTO but I believe it was because only Calgary Motor Products was able to import them.

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Frist of all: 427Carl you have done it once again, I have laughed so hard I almost made a puddle in my chair ... "Dave.. the loveable American" I have been called many things but that is a first for that one!!!

For all who shed light on my questons, especially Carl1, thanks! I now know that there were in fact Canadian-bult Chevelles, and imported GTO's during the 64-67 time period. The pictures of some of those GTO's were cool too.

I did not intend to start a debate about the Pontiac/Beaumont issue - but it is very interesting. If I ever have the honor to own one (64-67 vintage) I will be careful to reply, to someone who asks what it is, "It's a Beaumont, made by Pontiac of Canada" - does that cover both bases?

And Coop, great that you still have your 67 that you bought new! Wow, I wish my 66 SS396 hadn't rusted so badly. Mine listed for $3600 too (I paid less) but it was a lowly Chevelle (although a ragtop).

Dave

RDubya · Poncho Master!

Sort of off topic but i think it's funny looking at my Trans Am, being sold as a Pontiac yet only had Pontiac molded into the rear light display and not even a Pontiac emblem on the car unless they came with the wheel combination i have. No mention of Pontiac inside the car either.