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Post Info TOPIC: Frustrating power draw


A Poncho Legend!

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Frustrating power draw


I fixed my instrutment panel problem by installing another ground however I still have a draw that for the life of me I can't nail down. My battery was completely flat the other day. I charged it up and put my volt meter between the neg battery terminal and the neg battery cable - 12 volts! My cable actually sparks when I touch it to the neg terminal. I pulled every fuse- no change, I disconnected the headlight switch, wiper switch, neutral safety and backup light harness, the steering column harness, the voltage regulator, the alternator and I still have 12 volts! I thought I had found it when I noticed my glove box light on. Nope- still 12 volts. It's making me nuts.
confuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuseconfuse

Any suggestions? All this cropped up after my trip to Hamilton and back.

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Poncho Master!

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Horn
Starter
Fuse block

-- Edited by 67rag396 on Tuesday 7th of September 2010 04:38:43 PM

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Hey Todd. Does your car have a seperate voltage regulator? THat was what was killing the battery in my 66.

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Poncho Master!

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do you have a power accessory wire off your battery positive cable end? Try clipping that one and see if it goes away, then you'll have to trace that back. That should be a fusable link as well that is protected to fry in case of a bad short ....


Hey I have a wierder one. I got a shock from my hot-tub thats in my basement the other day. Quite concerned, i started measuring voltage and narrowed it down to 12 volts in my cement floor. Go figure now where the heck is that coming from ??? who needs solar panels when the dirt has free power.....

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Poncho Master!

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Elroy wrote:Quite concerned, i started measuring voltage and narrowed it down to 12 volts in my cement floor. Go figure now where the heck is that coming from ??? who needs solar panels when the dirt has free power.....

That would be "ground power" rofl.gif

 



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A Poncho Legend!

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I disconnected the regulator and it made no different. I haven't disconnected the starter yet. You'd think if the horn was the cause it would sound. I'll just have to continue to disconnect things until I find it. I dont have a hood or trunk light.

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Poncho Master!

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There aren't too many circuits that aren't fused. I start by removing the fuses.
 You may also disconnect the dimmer switch (internal short), unplug the alternator plug (blown diode)and the power feed to the horn relay. Even if the horn isn't going off there may be a draw across the relay coil (moisture, corrosion).
 I have had no luck with the new regulators that have the circuit board if you have one of those. 


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DO you have a clock ?  Do they draw voltage with the key off ?  

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A Poncho Legend!

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No clock. I pulled every fuse, the horn relay, the alternator wiring, headlight switch, wiper switch, steering column plug, neutral safety switch, back up light switch and regulator. I'll try the dimmer switch and any other items I may have missed tomorrow.

Thanks


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 Separate stereo, amplifier??

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I will be interesrted to know. The battery in my car goes dead if left connected for a long period - seems like a short somewhere but i haven't been able to find it.

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I guess the next step would be to disconnect the engine and headlamp harnesses from the firewall.  Your 69 should be basically the same as my 70, where you can use a 3/8" socket on a universal joint, and some extensions. 

The engine harness has the windshield wiper motor, oil pressure, heater fan motor, distributor and starter on it.

The headlamp harness has the temp sender, horn relay, voltage regulator, headlamps, horns, alternator & battery on it.   Leave it connected to the battery, disconnect it from the firewall and see if your current draw is still there.  Not sure if you know how to run an ohm meter, but theoretically you should see infinite resistance.  (remember to disconnect from the battery when using an ohm meter, as the meter has a battery inside it)

Theoretically you should be able to hook up the headlamp harness back onto the firewall connector, and it'll provide power to the dash harness.  The engine harness is really only used to start the car and keep it running.



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Poncho Master!

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I'm lazy, and chasing some errant current leak is too hard for me, eh?

When I have a "fun" car that only gets driven occasionally, with that problem, I just lift the hood after parking it in the garage, use my handy 1/2" wrench, and disconnect the negative battery terminal. Put it back on when I want to drive it. No Problem.

Dave

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Sure am looking forward to hearing what the problem is Todd. As well, hoping you find it soon. Electrical gremlins can be the most challenging. I have one of my own right now.

My recent electrical gremlin is this: We replaced the furnace thermostat in our house with a programmable one last fall. Seemed to work great all winter. In the spring we shut the furnace off and occasionally turn the fan on manually to cool the house. We started to notice that the fan would come on by itself at strange times and go off shortly after. No consistencey to when it came on or off. We've inquired with the home builder (3yr old house) and the furnace installer and they figure it is the thermostat. I'm not so sure this is the problem but it seems worth a try. We picked up a new thermostat with a more reputable brand name but haven't changed it out yet.
So yesterday I'm noticing the furnace fan coming on and off once again but this time I notice that it is at the exact same time the microwave is on, the fan comes on. Now what gives? I'm by no means an electrician but this sure seems like an issue with the nuetral or ground.
Anybody hear of this? Can it be the thermostat?

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A Poncho Legend!

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You might want to have an electrician check the main panel. I would be money there's something not right there. When we moved in here the prev owner updated the panel (a condition of us moving in). I happened to be down stairs when my wife was making a piece of toast. When she turned on the toaster and the microwave I could hear a sizzle sound in the panel. I thought perhaps it was that circuit. We moved the toaster to another area of the house. Same thing! It turns out the main ground wire wasn't tightened in the box and would arc under a certain load! The insulation was melted as well! We could have had a fire. I ended up tightening almost half of the circuit breaker connections as well!

As for the Laurentian, I'm heading out to the garage in a few minutes to do some more digging.




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Poncho Master!

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Good luck Todd. Thanks for the hint too. I figure it is something to do with a ground or a neutral. From what little I know, a bad ground or neutral is the only way to send power through a different circuit that was not intended.
I'll be having a look when I get home...

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It was a frustrating evening. Still no luck finding the draw. I decided to disconnect the starter at the solenoid. Bad idea. As soon as I turned the nut on the terminal the whole terminal started to spin which I assume fubared the solenoid. And to make it even more fun, the wire broke!furiousfuriousfuriousfuriousfuriousfurious

So, the rest of the evening was spent on my back under the car, covered in 1979 oil spray that is caked under my car, removing the starter. I thought I had found the culprit- the main cable to the starter had been touching the exhaust pipe and the insulation was burnt through. No dice. With the starter out and the wires out of the way, there is still a draw. However, something interesting I did find is the voltage dropped from 12 to 8 volts when I pull the courtesy light fuse.

I was also told by a tech at work that I am doing it wrong and that I should be testing for milliamps, not volts. He said I'd have 12 volts no matter what. I can't seem to get my head around this. I figured I'd only have 12 volts if there was a closed circuit. Perhaps this is the case with newer cars with PCM's "on" all the time but on an old car there should be nothing pulling voltage with the key off and doors closed etc.

I'll try testing milliamps after I get my starter mess straightened out. I am slowly realizing I am too old to be under a car twisting and stretching trying to remove starters. I need a hoist or a new hobby!



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A Poncho Legend!

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I decided to head back out to the garage and to a parasitic draw test using the amps setting on my meter. I did some online searching and as per what I read a number of times, set my meter to the 10a setting. I did the same thing as I did with the volt test- I put my meter between the neg terminal and neg cable. I had a zero reading. I opened my door to turn on the dome light- .9amps. I opened the glove box door- 1.2 amps. I closed the glove box and passenger door and the gauge dropped back to 0. I may have mentioned I found my glove box light on the other day and since I still had 12 volts on my meter, figured I still had a problem. Now I have a feeling all is well.. I need to get my "new" starter problem fixed and I'll let the car sit overnight and see what happens.

I'll reallly feel stupid (and relieved) if all is well!

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Poncho Master!

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69Laurentian wrote:
I was also told by a tech at work that I am doing it wrong and that I should be testing for milliamps, not volts. He said I'd have 12 volts no matter what. I can't seem to get my head around this. I figured I'd only have 12 volts if there was a closed circuit. Perhaps this is the case with newer cars with PCM's "on" all the time but on an old car there should be nothing pulling voltage with the key off and doors closed etc.

I'll try testing milliamps after I get my starter mess straightened out. I am slowly realizing I am too old to be under a car twisting and stretching trying to remove starters. I need a hoist or a new hobby!

I think I understand what your tech was saying about volts being 12v no matter what.  If the battery is fully charged, anything attached to it will have 12v going to it. This makes sense. 
I had a fella explain electricity to me years ago using water in a pipe as his analogy.  The voltage is like water under pressure....once the pressure or voltage is there, it won't be any different unless you change the source.  The amperage is similar to flow of the water or gallons per minute.  Size of pipe will affect amount of water capable flowing just as  the size of wire will affect the amperage it is capable of carrying. 
So with this in mind, I think the only way you will see a voltage change will be if there is a slight increase in voltage from unhooking everything from the battery.  If you hook each item back up one at time, the voltage will drop as each item has a draw. To find out how much draw each item has, you will need to hook the ammeter inline to each item and this will show how much power each item requires in milli amps.

I do agree with your statement about old cars not needing any power when doors are closed and key off.  There should be no draw at all except maybe a clock.

Hopes this helps a little Todd. 

 



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A Poncho Legend!

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Thanks Mike. I believe you are right. Check my latest post just above yours. I think (hope) all is actually well..

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Poncho Master!

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Glad it is working out Todd. Funny how one problem helped you find a different one. The cable on the exhaust could have been a big fire. As frustrating as problems can be, sometimes a guy has to be thankful when you find other problems that could leave you stranded on the side of the road.

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I agree. Things happen for a reason.

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I managed to repair my starter and got it back in the car. The battery wasn't even connected and it was stone dead. I charged it and boosted the car and took it to Tiny's to have the battery tested. By all indications it seems my new Delco battery is junk. I'll take it to the dealer when I get a chance and hopefully won't have to fight for a new one.


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A Poncho Legend!

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69Laurentian wrote:

I managed to repair my starter and got it back in the car. The battery wasn't even connected and it was stone dead. I charged it and boosted the car and took it to Tiny's to have the battery tested. By all indications it seems my new Delco battery is junk. I'll take it to the dealer when I get a chance and hopefully won't have to fight for a new one.



Take it to Toyota   They will warranty anything  

 



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427carl wrote:

69Laurentian wrote:

I managed to repair my starter and got it back in the car. The battery wasn't even connected and it was stone dead. I charged it and boosted the car and took it to Tiny's to have the battery tested. By all indications it seems my new Delco battery is junk. I'll take it to the dealer when I get a chance and hopefully won't have to fight for a new one.



Take it to Toyota   They will warranty anything  

 



Only if you find the right service advisor.

 



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