I had some dude come to check out my ol ponch i had for sale the other day, and we got ta talkin..he was sayin no matter what..the new cars blow the old ones away as far as power goes..that a new stang can take any old stang..any new gm can take an ol gm..say like the corvette..and so on..I went for a ride in a hemi challenger and wasnt that impressed..dont they rate hp now at the motor?..not at the wheels?..my ex ol ponch wieighed the same as 2 new cameroes..but when ya put the hammer down..she goes..does all the pipes and do-dads on the new moters make em faster?..i know they have a thing with smog..we never worried about that back in 67...they under rated the hp in the late 60's..for insurance reasons..now they seem to boast..or over exagerate?..i dunno.
I had a ride in a 300 Hemi last yr. & the thing was "AWESOME" would blow away alot of the so called muscle cars of our day. 40mph & he "planted it" in 2nd. gear!! G-force was unreal,even with the back tires "smokin" at that speed it still hauled A$$ & pushed me right back in the seat. I WAS IMPRESSED
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Some times I wake up GRUMPY, but today I let her sleep in !!!!!!!!BLACKSTOCK Ont.
ya mabe..still not convinced..i was racing a 69 gtx..with my 70 pontiac firebird with a 400 4gr..ram air..i was doin 152 miles an hr when he passed me..these cars were factory..the cops estimated he was doin 168 miles an hour..(notkms)..when he flew off the road and the car was desolved in the field..metal and bones...never seen **** like that again...the hotrod of today can do what..that hemi can do mabe 140 mile an hr..toppped out.
I was at the Blackstock truck pull once and a truck from the 70s with a 454 and 4x4 package hooked up. Lots of noise, smoke, smell and mud flying, he pulled fairly well. Then a brand new, straight off the lot Ram 4 x 4 diesel hooked up, made a full pull, hardly any noise, no smell, no fun either, but certainly outperformed the older truck.
They're making some unbelievable HP with engines today. The new Shelby 500 is what, 540HP? A Camaro SS 6.2 litre is 422HP. There are others that are making nearly 3 HP per cubic inch!!
There were a few legends back in the 60's - 435HP-427CID, the 375 HP 396 etc. (lots others not mentioned I know). Bottom line, if they made more than 1 HP per cubic inch, it was often barely streetable. A lot of the new cars drive like a granny car until you put your foot into it.
As I understand it, up to 1972, HP quoted was gross HP, rated at flywheel without exhaust system, intake filter, accessories (water pump, alternator, etc). Starting in 1973, they switched to NET HP. This is still measured at the flywheel, but the engine runs through the stock exhaust and intake and all accessories have to be installed. This resulted in a surprisingly (to me) big drop in rated HP between 1972 numbers and 1973. A lot of engines saw a big drop in compression ratio and got smog equipment at about the same time which helped bring down HP numbers. I believe they still use essentially the same NET horsepower ratings to day.
Bottom line - a 375HP 396 would be rated at a lower HP number if it were sold today.
As far as curb weight, people seem convinced our old cars are heavy. My 66 Beaumont has a curb weight of about 3200 lbs (if I remember correctly). A 2011 Malibu weighs in at over 3400 lbs. A 66 Impala SS with a BB weighed in at about 4030 lbs. Check out the weight of a 2011 Impala - ranges from 3555 to 3649 lbs. Not a light weight considering it is a smaller car. How about a 2011 Camaro? 3780lbs (with a V6!!!). A new hemi Dodge Challenger is 4200 lbs. Even with all the plastic and aluminum, new cars are not light. Power windows, AC, Air bags, anti-lock brakes, miles of wiring etc all add up.
SO - even if we assume the weights haven't changed old versus new, the lbs/HP have come down for the new high performance cars. Imagine if they could have actually shaved a 1000 lbs off the curb weights while they were making them smaller!! Gas mileage and performance would be incredible.
THe horse power ratings back in the '60s and early 70's was not as accurate as today's ratings. Modern cars are definitely faster, even if they don't seem it. I had quite a few muscle cars back in the day ,and yes they were fast, but if the new cars didn't have electronic limiters and ESP you could really feel the difference. I had the pleasure of driving a '10 Challenger , 5.7 Hemi 6 speed last week and it's fast. Very civilized, but fast. Comparing it to a 70 440 Challenger which I drove back in the day, it's still faster but doesn't have all the scariness of going sideways and smoking the tires and leaning in the corners and generally scaring the crap outta you everytime you hammerede it.
New cars don't have the style of the old stuff, and have no personality.
I do prefer the style of the the old stuff. Back then stylists were king at GM.
Harley Earl would push and fight the engineers and bean counters on behalf of the stylists. Same at Chrysler, with Virgil Exner. They were not as hampered with safety, economy, and cost cutting measures as today.
They had style. Even a 2 year old could tell that...
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"So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think... The good outnumber you, and we always will." Patton Oswalt
Okay, so today you walk onto the car lot and you get to buy either car 'A' with these 10 options or car 'B' with the other 10 options. No choice, take it or leave it. There is no way that will ever compare to being able to personalize your own set of wheels with you own likes and dislikes in options. Plus how can you ever compare our 50's and 60's chrome to today's plastic chrome that looks like it belongs on a kid's toy somewhere. When I seen the mustang retro colors a few years back I thought cool........til I looked inside and saw all the fake plastic crap. Again, today it's "do you want the red one, black one, blue one or gray one..........don't even think of asking for lemon yellow, robin's egg blue or plum crazy purple, lol........ no comparision...... I too am glad to have grown up when atleast we had a choice of what to enjoy....(even if I couldn't afford to get one, lol).
i do agree new cars do things better than the old ones, like stop, have more comfortable interiors, some are quieter, and they handle better, but has anyone checked the curb weight of these little tanks, holly c####. a small chevy cruiz weighs the same as my GTO and its running a 4 banger. In the late 80s when my wagon was newer i went up against some good muscle and nine out of ten i could come ahead but not stop. i would hazard a guess the same applies today except the we can update our cars for alot less than you can buy new and the appriate in value. technology marches on.
I don't know if they are faster. I seen a new camaro at the track. It ran high 13's, I forget the mph. This was the 420 hp?? RSSS. Compare it to a 427/425hp big block , lets say in a chevelle. The new cars are heavy buggers though. My 65 with the big block was 3960lbs with me in it when I weighed it last year.
can you imagine if you only were only say 32oo , my wagon only scales at 4000 or so. I run newer vehicles too, maybe i ecpect them to be so much better or im cheap.
With the sound deadening, suspension, brakes, tires, no contest. These new cars corner on rails. Nothing like trying to shut'er down when you are rapidly running out of road with 4 wheel drums. Still nothing sound like a multiple carbed big block thru headers. The 71 hemi challenger was like cornering a brick. None of the older cars could stop. Still, for me it's all about the style points.
My only experience concerning the new cars performancewise is that last year at our local special event 1/8 mile drags at our airport, I did some time trial runs against a couple of new Hemi Challengers. I consistantly outran them both by about 2 tenths. 8.6's to their 8.8"s. I consider my car to be doggy, it's just basically a smogger 455 - '75 vintage with between 20 - 30 thousand miles on a quicky re-ring job I did a few years back. Oh yeah, I have headers and ahalf decent exhaust on it.
My only experience concerning the new cars performancewise is that last year at our local special event 1/8 mile drags at our airport, I did some time trial runs against a couple of new Hemi Challengers. I consistantly outran them both by about 2 tenths. 8.6's to their 8.8"s. I consider my car to be doggy, it's just basically a smogger 455 - '75 vintage with between 20 - 30 thousand miles on a quicky re-ring job I did a few years back. Oh yeah, I have headers and ahalf decent exhaust on it.
This is basically what I have seen also.They are pretty quick but not fast. They do respond very well to aftermarket tuneing though
No comparison on power and potential... the technology has come so far, as everyone also mentioned especially in terms of safety, comfort, reliability and driveability. I was quite surprised to see how heavy these new cars are, I really thought they'd be lighter, but all the safety features, etc. adds up fast! 1000hp on pump gas, with a/c is just sick.... but at the same time, we're all nostalgic and like our old cars...
of course most guys that own them, remember them as new cars...so I really wonder whats the difference between that and today, other than a generational difference...my generation really had nothing to speak of for new cars (maybe fox body 5.0 mustangs and GN's) so we were stuck in no mans land... go old school to get some performance and style...or wait for the future...which in the 80's looked very bleak for cars!!
Everything gets better with technology... except durability. New cars are made to last until the next big thing comes along. Fads to be forgotten...
Old cars are made to last and be admired forever.
AGREED!! Can't beat the style of an old car, Fast or slow, older is better
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1960 Pontiac Strato Chief Safari 1960 Laurentian Safari 1960 Laurentian 4door(scrapped) 2001 Grand Am Traded on a '96 Suburban 2WD 2002 Hyundai Accent(SOLD) 1968 Grand Parisienne Scrapped and SOLD
