Hi Ralph, I am not the guy who knows the most on these by any means on this forum but from what I have learned doing the work on a 66 Grande Parisienne these Canadian Pontiacs (which were the versions exported) seem to be kind of an amalgam of Canadian Chevy drivetrains and small Amercian Pontiac (like Catalina) body parts. I believe the Bonneville body was actually slightly larger in dimension than the Catalinas.
As well from what I have seen there is still enough differences between the American bodies and the Canadian(export) bodies that if you are looking for body or trim pieces it is safest to try to get them from a Canadian Pontiac.
This is the place for that as this forum is probably the deepest and most helpful pool of knowledge on these things that exists.
That beinig said I notice that you have said your car has a 350 and if you are trying to restore it, you should know that for 1966 small blocks that car would have come with either a two barrel 283 or a four barrel 327.
i also notice that you have incorrect (but cool) wheel covers and if you want correct ones I'm sure some one here has some good ones. I may have few myself if I dig around my parts cars.
You also have what we would call a four door hardtop rather than the more prosaic 4 door sedan. The Parisienne line was roughly equivalent to the Impala line in Chevrolet (with a bit more class in my opinion)
Also more pictures and details on yours would very much be welcome here.
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 12:05:12 PM
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 12:07:47 PM
Great Pictures and ambitious (and expensive) plans. All can be done if you have the dough. As they say, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"
To help us with advice giving and because we are generally curious, is there a chance you could post a clear closeup of the firewall tag? Quite a bit of info can be taken from those and it would establsih if this was an original export car or has been brought over later.
It appears you have a later small block (maybe a 350) in place of the original but whoever put it in used the orginal exhaust manifolds. With the 327 or 283 with the 2 speed auto (I assume) the orginal rear gear would have been in the neighbourhood of 3.08 to 3.36 so the car would never have been a real tire smoker, especially since it would have weighed about 3800 lbs.
It was called a sport sedan model 76439 by GM
re the sizes, all the Canadian Pontiac models were smaller than the Bonneville as the bodies essentially had to fit on a Chevy chassis. I'm not totally sure if the Catalina dimensions were exactly the same as Canadian Pontiacs
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 03:23:35 PM
The Canadian Pontiac levels of luxury were in order from cheapest to priceist:
The Strato Chief,(more or less equivalent to the Chevy Biscayne) the Laurentian, more or less like the Chevy Belair)the Parisienne, (Chevy Impala) the Grande Parisienne (Chevy Caprice)
Within those lines were different body styles of which yours is the sport sedan (4 door pillarless hardtop)
Re the frewall tag i do mean the tag on the upper drivers side of the firewall. The VIN we don't need to know as that is between you and the Swiss registrar. From the story you tell it sounds like it was brought over later by an owner not exported by GM. The firewall tag will tell us for sure.
As far as the sizes go ita always been a bit of a mystery to me what Amercican body stuff is the same and what is different. Stick with Canadian poncho stuff for bady parts and you will be correct. Some of the US stuff like radios, tachs etc is the same but not too much.
I'm not even sure if the dash width is the same. Someone else will know though.
Heres a link with way more info than I can give you. You can also find the US pontiac brochure for that year in the old car manual website.
As far as I know the Grande was Canadian GM's attempt to compete with the Caprice by putting out a Grande Prix lookalike car. To give it some extra panache they called it a whole new series and gave it a different grille and roofline like the Grande Prix.
Its the same size as any other Canadian Pontiac
I also believe that in the US the Grande Prix was strictly a two door whereas in Canada the Grande could be had as a sport sedan as well
Different country different markets
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 04:42:05 PM
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 04:43:14 PM
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 04:46:44 PM
It's the skirt retainer that hits. These 17" Torque Thrust II are 4.5" Backspace, and with that number they have a good fingers worth of room between the 235 tire and the retainer. With 265's on the Rallys I could hardly get the skirt on. That said, I wished I'd have went with a 245 tire on this rim. The Rally wheels were 4" Backspace. So if you can go, say 5" backspace, you might be able to fit a large tire and wider wheel. But you might be pushing it a 10" wide. Also the overall diameter will factor in. My tires are 26" or so.
-- Edited by cdnpont on Monday 9th of April 2012 05:11:08 PM
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
my name's Ralph and i live in Switzerland. Few weeks ago i bought a 66 Parisienne restoration project. It's a 4door sedan with 350 cui, automatic transmission and frontbenchseats. Here's a picture of it:
Technically my Parisienne seems to be in decent condition. The engine runs nice and the transmission shifts smooth. The biggest problem is the awfully rusty underfloor and run down interior.
I already found a local company that is specialized in classic car restorations and will meet them soon to discuss this project step by step.
Since i purchased this car, i read through as much info on Canadian Pontiacs and especially Parisiennes as i could find. It was interesting to learn that they are actually Chevys under the skin. However i still got some questions and hope you can help me out:
If i understand correct, this Parisienne is basically an American Bonneville, built on a Chevy chassis.
So the chassis, drivetrain, engine and transmission are all Chevy. Basically identical with all fullsize Chevys of the same year (Impala, Caprice, Bel Air). That means to fix or replace any of these parts, we can use anything that fits the above mentioned 66 fullsize Chevys.
The body panels and interior on the Parisienne are supposedly PONTIAC. That means to replace a fender, a door, a dashboard or a seat, i can use 66 Bonneville parts.
From the outside, the only obvious difference between the Bonneville and the Parisienne i could spot are the different taillights (different badging aside).
I'd highly appreciate if you can confirm that the above is true. If any info i got is incorrect or incomplete, please let me know. As you can imagine we have to order all parts for this car from overseas and have them shipped to Europe, so ordering wrong parts is the last thing i want to do.
Also i wonder how much is the estimated value of this car in excellent condition. I don't plan to resell it, but i don't want to invest more for the restoration, than it would cost me to get an already show condition car.
Welcome from Saskatchewan, Ralph! Cool ride.......
You are correct on the frame, floor and powertrain as well as the fuel tank if required!
Here is where it gets dicey........ Not sure about the doors but I believe there may be a difference in the bumpers. The fenders and the rad support ard different for sure!
You may be able to be able to use pieces of the fenders as well as the quarters!
There are lots of guys that are on here that can give you a more in depth explanation than I! Hang tough and all your questions will be answered!
Wow guys, thanks for the warm welcome! I also registered at some other Pontiac / GM forums recently and in some cases i waited FOR DAYS without even one reply to my posts. So i really feel that now i finally came to the right place.
I think you would be better off just maintaining your car to keep it running and safe to drive instead of doing a full restoration. It looks good enough and these cars drive so smoothly they are hard to beat. The cost of a resto will far outstrip the car. There are enough minty ones here in Canada to buy and ship if you so desire.
Lots of board members here will be able to find and sell you one when that time comes.
As you can see there's still a lot of time, work and money to invest before it is complete.
I'm not planning a numbers matching all original restoration here. But rather a "resto mod" project with some nice upgrades that bring back all the beauty of this car with a slightly more clean and sleek touch.
These are some of the things i have in mind:
BODY
Of course it needs to be stripped down completely, have all rust removed and get a new paintjob. It will become a high gloss black (like piano lacquer) and eventually with a slight touch of dark purple. I just hope all body panels are still in usable condition and not rotten away underneath the paint.
I'm considering to convert the rear doors to suicide doors. That means exchanging the door handles left-right and mounting them near the front of each backdoor, then mount the doors at the back with custom hinges. I really like the look of such doors on the 60 Lincolns and believe it would also look amazing on the Parisienne. Especially with the hardtop.
CHASSIS
The underfloor is completely rusty right now, to the point where you can stick a screwdriver through the floorpan in some areas. That means we will remove the complete floorpan and get a new one (for Chevy Impala or other 65-70 Chevy fullsize). The frame is rusty as well, but i hope it can be welded and repaired. Right now the car leans a bit on one side, so new shocks and springs will be necessary too (also from Chevy).
ENGINE / TRANS
During a short testdrive the engine did its job to move the car, but failed to impress with any sensation of power or "muscle" under the hood. I know a Parisienne is no drag racer, but i believe at least a little burnout should be possible with a 6 liter V8 (especially with tires still from stoneage). Also the exhaust sounds REALLY tame.
So first we will remove the engine, check for compression and if everything works. During this we might add headers a complete exhaust system (thinking bout Flowmaster 40s), eventually a new intake and carb. A stroker kit would also be cool, but probably too much power for the stock transmission as i'm planning to keep this original.
INTERIOR
Right now the carpet looks quite nasty, the seats are bleached and partially torn, the dashboard is broken, the steering wheel doesn't fit at all imo.
I already talked to an upholstery specialist in my area about a custom interior. They can produce a complete interior of real black leather which would sure look awesome (of course at a price). That means they renew the benchseats and door panels. Also i got an original Parisienne steering wheel, which is broken but they can repair it.
The front benchseats certainly need new springs and padding. It would be great if i can order this somewhere, instead of having one custom made for a fortune.
The dashboard could be repaired but it might also be better to get a new one. Also i will need a new carpet, floor sound deadener and ceiling upholstery.
Any suggestion where i can order these parts at a good price is more than welcome.
A powerful sound system should be installed in a way that it is almost invisible. Easy with the tons of space in the trunk. On the dashboard i might install a radio that looks classic and almost original, but has all modern functions like MP3 etc.
Basically i see this Parisienne as beautiful triple black street cruiser. Classic but with a few modern touches and mean sound. Hope you get the picture.
On Wikipedia i read that the LAURENTIAN is the Canadian version of the US CATALINA, while the PARISIENNE is the equivalent to the BONNEVILLE. But they are all four classified ass fullsize Pontiacs.
Can anyone please confirm the exact dimensions of these four cars and how they differ from each other? Is the Parisienne really smaller than the Bonneville and if yes, how much?
Welcome to the site Ralph, you've come to the right place where all your questions will actually get a honest response, parts are available and we harbour no I'll will towards the more door!
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
One thing I did find out is that the wheelbase of the Canadian Sport Sedan is 119 inches and total car length is 215.8 inches while the Catalina has a wheelbase of 121 inches (total length 214 inches) and the Bonneville whelbase is 124 inches and total length is 221 inches.
Great Pictures and ambitious (and expensive) plans. All can be done if you have the dough. As they say, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"
To help us with advice giving and because we are generally curious, is there a chance you could post a clear closeup of the firewall tag? Quite a bit of info can be taken from those and it would establsih if this was an original export car or has been brought over later.
It appears you have a later small block (maybe a 350) in place of the original but whoever put it in used the orginal exhaust manifolds. With the 327 or 283 with the 2 speed auto (I assume) the orginal rear gear would have been in the neighbourhood of 3.08 to 3.36 so the car would never have been a real tire smoker, especially since it would have weighed about 3800 lbs.
It was called a sport sedan model 76439 by GM
re the sizes, all the Canadian Pontiac models were smaller than the Bonneville as the bodies essentially had to fit on a Chevy chassis. I'm not totally sure if the Catalina dimensions were exactly the same as Canadian Pontiacs
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Monday 9th of April 2012 03:23:35 PM
I assume with "firewall tag" you mean the VIN number? No problem, i'll take a good picture and post it asap.
This car was brought to Europe by a guy from Czech Republic, who has spent some time in Canada and purchased the Parisienne there. He lather brought it with him when he moved back to Czech. It appears to me he sold the car because he either didn't want to invest the money and/or the effort to restore it and now looks for an already complete classic car instead.
Right now i'm missing a little bit of SPORT in GMs definition of a sport sedan. Fortunately this can be changed. I'm not planning to go fast with this one, but a few more hp and a menacing sound would certainly do better justice to the (for its time) sporty appearance of this car. Especially since Pontiac is was marketed as GMs "athletic" brand in the good old days.
I wonder if the Parisienne is only SHORTER than the Bonneville (because of the shorter wheelbase) or also NARROWER. Also are we talking just 1" difference in dimensions or rather 10" or even more?
One thing I did find out is that the wheelbase of the Canadian Sport Sedan is 119 inches and total car length is 215.8 inches while the Catalina has a wheelbase of 121 inches (total length 214 inches) and the Bonneville whelbase is 124 inches and total length is 221 inches.
So none of these are really the same.
So does this "Canadian Sport Sedan" mean the Laurentian or Parisienne - or are they both the same?
Welcome to the site Ralph, you've come to the right place where all your questions will actually get a honest response, parts are available and we harbour no I'll will towards the more door!
I agree this is one beautiful hardtop you have. Compliments! I wish mine would already look like this, but i'm dedicated to let it shine again.
Also the wheels are a perfect match. Are these Torque Thrusts and are your rear wheels larger than front?
No, all the same size. 235-55 Firestone Firehawk Indy 500's on Chrome 17x8's Ralph.
I thought your frontwheels are 18". In the back they look even larger but definitely a great choice.
Btw, does anyone know what is the widest wheel & tire combo that fits on a stock 66 Parisienne without rubbing?
I'm fine with the 235 on 8" in the front but for the back my preference would be 275 rubbers on 10". That's what i have on my 70 Challenger so the Parisienne as even larger car should be able to handle the same. Right?
You'll never fit a 275 on a 10" wheel with skirts, unless perhaps if they were custom backspace. I had 265mm on a 8" Rally and they rubbed. But 66 might be different?
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
Ok now i'm a bit confused. The 66 Grande Parisienne looks exactly the same as the US Grand Prix of the same year, which as i read was the sport-luxury edition of the Bonneville, with its GTO inspired front grille. But to my knowledge the Grand Prix was just the top trim level of the Bonneville, no different car.
If this is true and if the 66 Grande Parisienne is the equivalent of the Grand Prix (they look the same), then it should also just be an option package on the 66 Parisienne, no different car.
