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Post Info TOPIC: 65-66 Grand Prix (USA) tilt into 66 Grande Parisienne


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65-66 Grand Prix (USA) tilt into 66 Grande Parisienne


For years, and I mean years, I've had this tilt thinking some day maybe I'll have a Grande Parisienne again. So of course 2 years ago when I got my black car I figured I'm set, I have a tilt for it. Then guys on here started talking that the US tilts don't fit Canadian cars....... evileye

Today was the day, it's been nagging me too long now. I hope your ok with lots of pics! I started by removing my original column. Stubby box wrench is nice in this area to remove the bolts on the rag joint Then the inner trim panel at the firewall. (Stupid 3rd pedal gets in the way!) The dash finish panel where the column meets it. Steering column to firewall inner seal (part of the factory build tag still stuck on it) The wiring harness connector for the signal switch. The two nuts that hold the column up. I don't completely remove them both. Then split the flange from the rag joint with a big flat screwdriver. If you had taken the nuts off inside first, then when you split this the column will fall down. The two columns are very similar but the US one IS taller. Test fit the US piece. First snag. The tab sticking down in the centre of the pic... ...is supposed to fit in this slot. However, the hole needs to be farther down the column. Sure I could grind the tab off but then the column sleeve could rotate when it's not supposed to. Sooo......., check to make sure I can change the slot without hitting something behind there. All clear. Next test fit. Not bad, but I'm not totally delighted with the gap. So while looking at it, I see that the flange at the rag joint will slide on this column. It looks like it will slide up about 3/4", reducing the length of the column overall. On the original it's rigid. Original- So I removed it, cleaned up and greased the lower bearing at the same time, and try again. I think I can live with that gap. That's as far as I am right now. One question. Moving up the flange puts more load on the bottom column bearing. Does anyone have experience with these? Will that extra load be an issue?

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Saturday 23rd of November 2013 09:50:50 PM

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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While I can't answer your question Carl I do have a question. Is that red overspray on your original column and harness?

DSCF0345.JPG

Great thread Carl! 



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Yes, not very tidy is it??? I am pretty sure it's factory stuff but I can't prove it.

I'm sorry all my pics and text are messed up, not uniform. I'm going to try to edit it and use photobucket pics. I did half the thread, went away, came back and did the rest. That messed it up.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Johnny Ringo wrote:

......good job Carl, only problem is that tach and guage cluster is very distracting !!! Maybe Big Steve can chime in here as he might have a view on this. If I remember right, when I was at his place couple years ago he had a american column and said it didn't fit his 66 when he built one, thought he said it was longer too ?? Correct me if I'm wrong here Steve. But from what I see you did here Carl, I'd see no problem . Put the GP wheel on and it should look and work just fine. I have a tilt from a 67 Caprice and 66 Wildcat that I was going to try in the 66 Custom Sport too some day when I get to it. Nice pics Carl .



-- Edited by Johnny Ringo on Saturday 23rd of November 2013 09:38:46 PM



I figured before I worked on any of the cosmetic stuff I'd see if it even works. Now I'll rip it out, finish off the area where I removed the column shifter and put on the GP wheel. I also have to order a repro signal switch for tilt, this one is missing.

Two thingsI didn't mention in the thread.

1) The seal at the firewall on the inside. That seal/plate is completely different so it will have to be changed over to the US column.

2) The wiring connector is completely different but the wire colours are the same so I anticpate that being fairly simple.


What to you think of the gap Michael? Could you live with that in your car? I'd like it to be about 1/4"-3/8" tighter but that's all there is.

I have put a 68 Parisienne tilt in a 66 GP years ago but it was not a nice fit. You'd be far better off finding a US tilt from a 65-66 full size. They can be had if you are patient.

Sorry about the tach and gauge distraction!

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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US connector.

DSCF0365.JPG

Canadian connector.

DSCF0364.JPG

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Interesting, mine (65) tilt from a US Grand Prix dropped right in, but I have a floor shift...

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According to "my " sources    the column will work fine   No bearing problem



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1965CS wrote:

Interesting, mine (65) tilt from a US Grand Prix dropped right in, but I have a floor shift...





Did the seal for the column fit at the firewall? It's so long now I even forget what car I took this one out of!



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Johnny Ringo wrote:

...I know you can get past the wiring issue, even if had to swap the insides from one to another, but just trace the wires as to their function and can change the location in the plug if need be. there is not much there anyway . As far as the gap , no one will really notice, it's not bad, but I would check out from something like a 73-87 GM truck , they have a rubber gasket in that spot to seal and cover the gap. I don't know the diameter of it but it may work. It stretchs and should just slide all the way up and once in place will add a finishing touch to that spot too.





And of course you know I took an 87 pickup to the shredder a week ago.....

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Thanks, I think you are right, the diameter does look too big.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Check the gap on the one just posted for sale in BC. Only a bit less than mine with the US column in it.

gp column.JPG

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Carl Stevenson wrote:


So while looking at it, I see that the flange at the rag joint will slide on this column. It looks like it will slide up about 3/4", reducing the length of the column overall. On the original it's rigid.


 Will it always slide up & down Carl, much like an intermediate steering shaft on a more modern vehicle?



-- Edited by Pontiacanada on Sunday 24th of November 2013 06:33:33 AM

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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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No, when you tighten the clamp bolt (bottom end of the bolt visible in the picture) it stays fixed there.

No area of this column can take up any slack like the newer collapsible styles that also have the telescoping intermediate shaft. Scary in a head on collision...

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Carl Stevenson wrote:
1965CS wrote:

Interesting, mine (65) tilt from a US Grand Prix dropped right in, but I have a floor shift...



 



Did the seal for the column fit at the firewall? It's so long now I even forget what car I took this one out of!


 Yes, everything fit just as it should.  Even the wiring was the same but I did have to buy the harness for the tilt connections - (65 Impala)



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Carl Stevenson wrote:

US connector.

DSCF0365.JPG

Canadian connector.

DSCF0364.JPG





So I looked at my "new" 66 Grand Prix last night. It has a tilt. The connector on it is the same as my original Grande Parisienne column, 2 "C" shaped connectors, 4 slots in each connector.

I am betting this column I'm installing is 65. Can someone with a 65 Canadian Pontiac B body please check their column for me? I'd like to know if your connector for the wiring is a single connector, 8 slots, or if it has 2 C shaped connectors, 4 slots in each.

Thanks.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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I am betting the 65 and 66 are the same other than the wiring.

Problem with that bet is, I've never had a gambling bone in my body!

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Johnny Ringo wrote:

......Got a couple pics of it in my 76 but not close up, but you can see the things about 3/8" wide and is a tapered face. It might be big for the pontiac. I can get one measured up , I have lots of them.

 

IM004530.JPG

 

IM004559.JPG


I find your tach and gauges very distracting!! 

 

Thanks

Randy



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I decided today to work on the wiring, fitting the steering wheel etc. I pulled the wheels off both columns. For reference, the light aqua column is the US tilt, the red column the Canadian straight column.

The Canadian column
DSCF0348.JPG

The underside of the Canadian steering wheel

DSCF0349.JPG

The Canadian signal cancelling cam

DSCF0350.JPG

The US column

DSCF0351.JPG

The underside of the US wheel

DSCF0352.JPG

The US signal cancelling cam

DSCF0353.JPG

This is where I hit my first snag. The cancel cams are quite different. The way they attach (2 bolts Canadian, 3 bolts US) plus the cam itself is in a completely different area, depth and diameter. It was clear I had to somehow fit the US cam onto the Canadian wheel. I thought of drilling holes in the plastic cam. When I looked at the cam to measure where to drill, I just thought "Good old GM, they make stuff more interchangeable than any other car company I know" because the spots I needed to drill have a little depression in the plastic where I needed to drill! If you look at the pic of the US cam, you will see 2 depressions, 180 degrees apart, both to the left of an existing hole. I drilled them out and installed it. The bench testing at least works perfect, so we will see when it gets out to the road test!

I cleaned up the brass ring for the horn contact as it was like they always are, crusty and likely well enough insulated by goop to prevent proper use.

DSCF0354.JPG

I assumed of course that I would use the US horn contact. Wrong! It is totally wrong length for the Canadian wheel. I took my caliper and measured if the non tilt contact and it seems perfect. Again, when I get to the road test I'll know for sure.

DSCF0355.JPG

Last snag is the wiring as I mentioned previously. US is a 7 pin "C"shaped male connector, Canadian is 2 4 pin connectors. Fortunately, once again CP came to the rescue. I had asked a few members earlier this week for a 7 pin female side connector with a bit of wiring, and Fake68 rescued me, including free delivery to my house this afternoon! Tonight I made up a short adapter harness that will adapt the US column harness to my Canadian car.

DSCF0356.JPG

I checked in my 66 US parts car this afternoon in case my tilt is a 65, thinking maybe the 66 US cars are like our's but no luck. So now I know, US tilts 65-66 should be the same for either year, and to put them in our Canadian cars there are some snags which are easily overcome.

Now I need to refinish the column and install it. The mechanical part is ready as far as I can tell.

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Oh, and just a little trivia note. Take a look at the top of this thread, 3rd picture down, the trim piece that finished off where the column meets the dash.

When I went to my US parts car today to look at the column, I noticed that piece is plastic. On my Canadian car, it's a cast piece, likely white metal or something similar. Funny they would do something like that.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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I'm finally back working on the tilt again. I learned the cover is a LOT different under the column where it meets the dash. The Canadian piece won't slide over the column. I had to remove a slight bit of material on each side. to make it fit over the tube. I don't have an after picture, these are the before pics. Quite different actually, these two pieces. Amazing how much is unique on our cars that I always assumed was the same between the two.

DSCF0335.JPG

DSCF0336.JPG

DSCF0337.JPG

DSCF0338.JPG

DSCF0339.JPG



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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I hadn't thought of that possibility. I don't have an original tilt car to check either. I don't think the a/c is an issue. I may check in the parts book to see if tilt/non-tilt is different.

At any rate, I just took a tiny bit off the inside of each ear and it slides right up now.

I also had so slightly rework the underdash brace that holds the steering column up. The tilt column signal switch was interfering, I couldn't quite put the column up into place. When I did the test fit a while back I had the switch removed.

All in all it was a bit of a learning curve on something I had thought/hoped would be a bolt in.

Yet again........... Sigh...........

It always seems to go that way, doesn't it???

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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Carl     did you mention that you had changed your column in your first 427 4 speed car?   and it was out of a  Impala/Caprice



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Yes, that one has a tilt/telescopic from a 66 Caprice. I had to trim the collar a bit to fit the dash. Otherwise it was a bolt in as I recall, but that is almost 30 years ago, so I may be forgetting something.

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Thank you...   In didn't intend to de-rail...    I thought I had seen the tilt tele  in a photo  



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Johnny Ringo wrote:



Do you think that bottom piece may be different cause of the a/c ducting or tilt wheel specific ?? I'll have to go look at my a/c car and compare to another non a/c car , I have no factory 66 tilt pontiac's .





I checked the Canadian parts book and it says 65-66 all. So, it appears that it's a difference between Canadian and US cars for this piece. Interesting. Never too old to learn.

Overall I'd say I'm happy with the fit of this column, but it was a bit more work than I had counted on.

DSCF0335.JPG



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles
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