So I think I may have found a documented 1-of-1: a 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible. There were 12 427/390 4-speeds built but I know of no other convertible 2+2 among them.
Anyway, the car's in bad shape - and worse yet, a restoration was started. And they didn't bag and tag, just blew it apart into a million pieces into boxes. But that's not the problem.
Like many (most) of these cars, the quarters are bad. Someone did an old hack job on it, but it really needs new ones. I assume there are no reproductions, and even so convertibles are a little different. I'm wondering what the options are to fix a rusty car. He's had it acid dipped so there shouldn't be surprises, but the rust that's there makes the rears, at least, unusable.
southern 69 Pontiac quarters weld them in and go the u.s. cars were 2-3-4 inches longer and generally reported to pick that up in the front fender e.g. like Monte Carlos versus Chevelle
Has anyone actually tried US rear fenders on a Canadian car? The Bonneville ones have to be longer, it's a longer wheelbase (I suppose it could all be in the front, not sure). I would imagine Catalina would be your best bet.
Before I go scrounging Arizona for Catalina parts though, sure be nice to know if they'd even work!
I've done some measurements on 1970 Canadian vs US Pontiac's. The space between the door opening and the rear wheel opening on a Bonneville is definately longer than a Cdn car. That space is the same on a Catalina and Cdn car. I know of a gent in Camrose AB who has a 70 2+2 convertible, he used 70 Catalina rear quarters. He said his body guy was able to work them them and make them fit.
I can likely get more measurements of 1970 Catalina vs Cdn cars (especially convertibles) if you wish. As you know, 1969 and 1970 are very similar, but there is definately differences between the 2 years, especially in the tail of the car and the supports just inside the trunk. My theory is that if a 70 Catalina quarter can fit on a 70 Cdn car, then a 69 Catalina fender can fit onto a 69 Cdn car.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Thursday 6th of March 2014 08:36:53 AM
I've done some measurements on 1970 Canadian vs US Pontiac's. The space between the door opening and the rear wheel opening on a Bonneville is definately longer than a Cdn car. That space is the same on a Catalina and Cdn car. I know of a gent in Camrose AB who has a 70 2+2 convertible, he used 70 Catalina rear quarters. He said his body guy was able to work them them and make them fit.
I can likely get more measurements of 1970 Catalina vs Cdn cars (especially convertibles) if you wish. As you know, 1969 and 1970 are very similar, but there is definately differences between the 2 years, especially in the tail of the car and the supports just inside the trunk. My theory is that if a 70 Catalina quarter can fit on a 70 Cdn car, then a 69 Catalina fender can fit onto a 69 Cdn car.
I know everyone is stoked to find out where the car is, but I ain't sayin' It's locked in the back of a 5-ton truck on a farm. And it took me some SERIOUS legwork to track it down... I was about to pay the private investigator when I finally found it by email. All I knew was the guy's username from some 10-year-old post on a non-Pontiac forum and so I emailed pretty much every ISP in Canada using that username prefix.
I'm even afraid to post pictures, but out of fairness I'll post a couple. Even has all four original rally caps and the air cleaner. No AC (still a hydraulic lifter motor so you probably could have). Protecto plate and original invoice (maybe window sticker) also.
The 8-track looks nothing like original but gives you a sense of how long it's been sitting. Almost 20 years.
Went from original owner to someone that was "going to restore it some day". Original owner still alive, original dealership still in business. Current owner well past retired age, still thinks he might do something with it, but we all know that just means I'd be waiting for the estate sale!
Now for the bad news, besides the rust. The guy had a friend blow the car apart for acid dipping the body and they didn't bag-and-tag, it's just a big mess of parts now. The frame was stripped and painted, the powertrain rebuilt, and the empty shell set back on the frame. Then parked inside the truck and left.
-- Edited by davepl on Thursday 6th of March 2014 02:51:49 PM
That one valence looks like it was Carousel Red at some point in its life (Hugger Orange if you prefer). Don't have the trim tag numbers yet but he says it was originally red, that's all I know.
Sad part is I sold a 350 car almost identical to this for $6500 not that long ago It would be a mini-sin to have parted out a good 2+2 to save this one, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
Guy is going to send me the VIN and copies of the protecto plate and trim tag. I plan to run that through GM Vintage Vehicle services to document it for sure, then try to get him to sell it. He knows it may be 1-of-1 and has money into the mechanicals, so I have NO idea if he's going to be reasonable, but we'll see.
-- Edited by davepl on Thursday 6th of March 2014 02:55:40 PM
Good stuff Dave. I can decode the Protect-O-Plate for you, it'll contain the vin and stampings for the engine, transmission and differential. 390 hp 427 manual engine stamping (and on the Protect-O-Plate) should be LA, LG, LH, LZ, MB or MC.
Guy is going to send me the VIN and copies of the protecto plate and trim tag. I plan to run that through GM Vintage Vehicle services to document it for sure, then try to get him to sell it. He knows it may be 1-of-1 and has money into the mechanicals, so I have NO idea if he's going to be reasonable, but we'll see.
It's been my experience that the older the guy, the less likely he is to be "reasonable", if you're talking money. The older fellows I know always want huge bucks for their cars and don't really care if they sell them or not. They've learned the art of patience.
Good luck anyway, it's definitely something you have to try for !! Maybe take his wife flowers :)
HonestDave wrote: It's been my experience that the older the guy, the less likely he is to be "reasonable", if you're talking money. The older fellows I know always want huge bucks for their cars and don't really care if they sell them or not. They've learned the art of patience.
Truer word have never been spoken. Hell I'm an old guy (just turned 48 in Feb) and I want what I want or the stuff stays with me. I can negotiate if I need too, and will, but the low-baller, "Ki-jew-ji" guys that think there "Canadian Pickers" need not apply. BUT Also, I will never deal with "FIRM" price. As soon as some puts FIRM in a price, I move past the add. The MUST be some give and take in the market
I talked to a relative a few months back, and his good buddy still has the remains of a 69 Impala (I think) 427 convertible sitting in the dirt under the trees at his place. I looked at it about 18 years ago but he wanted a couple grand, and there wasn't much left of it. I was told the black bucket seat interior is still sitting in his storage under the house. Too bad they sold the motor about 20 years ago, but I think it's a real 427 car, for what it's worth. Might be an SS, but I don't think I have the ability to deal with it. Still, he's going to ask his buddy about it and maybe I'll hear back one day.
Not as exciting as your find, by far, but still entertaining !!
When I restored my Black 2+2 I found a guy in the US who has about 6 427 1969 Impalas, and I was able to get a lot of rare mechanical parts, like the Z_bar, air cleaner without thermac, date coded intake manifold, and so on. That's the only upside to Canadian Pontiac restoration (that US Chevy parts are out there).
I'm even afraid to post pictures, but out of fairness I'll post a couple. Even has all four original rally caps and the air cleaner. No AC (still a hydraulic lifter motor so you probably could have). Protecto plate and original invoice (maybe window sticker) also.
The 8-track looks nothing like original but gives you a sense of how long it's been sitting. Almost 20 years.
Went from original owner to someone that was "going to restore it some day". Original owner still alive, original dealership still in business. Current owner well past retired age, still thinks he might do something with it, but we all know that just means I'd be waiting for the estate sale!
That 8 track brings back memories of the seventies when the guys would have to jam match packs or cigarette pack chunks into the machine so the tape would play properly.
That's an aftermarket underdash cassette player, not an 8 track. Likely late 70's or early 80's. By looking at the bracketry, it's mounted onto the console hump, so 4 holes in the plastic to fill.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 7th of March 2014 11:40:38 PM
It's locked in the back of a 5-ton truck on a farm. And it took me some SERIOUS legwork to track it down... I was about to pay the private investigator when I finally found it by email. All I knew was the guy's username from some 10-year-old post on a non-Pontiac forum and so I emailed pretty much every ISP in Canada using that username prefix.
It would be a mini-sin to have parted out a good 2+2 to save this one, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
COOL FIND!
