CS Won't Start When Hot

tron64 · Member

CS Won't Start When Hot

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Welcome here.

One of the first things to check is if there is a full 12 volts getting to the inside wire on the starter solenoid when you hit "crank". The wire you are testing is likely about a 12 gauge wire, and likely purple. If that tests at 12 volts I would try replacing the solenoid. If it's nowhere near 12 volts, there is likely a poor connection between the ignition switch and the solenoid.

hawkeye5766 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

^^^^^^^^^^^ Welcome to the site.

tron64 · Member

Alright, first on the list tomorrow! I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I had a 65 Acadian that did this but was unable to figure out why the voltage was low at the solenoid. (I had on spare ignition switch to try)

I finally installed a remote solenoid and it worked perfect every time after I did that. Doesn't look original though...

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

You might want to read the thread below as this condition was exactly as I experienced earlier this summer. In my case the starter and battery connections were all cleaned and properly tightened and the car started. Corrosion combined with heat creates a lot of issues.

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t58077627/rat-boys-beast-no-start-condition-opinions-please/?page=1&sort=oldestFirst

tron64 · Member

I should probably mention, after about 5-10 minutes of sitting and cooling down it starts up no problem.
Thanks for all the input! I have yet to check into the voltage.

Indian · Guru

Typical GM problem. The starter and solenoid are getting hot from the engine, GM made and has a heat shield to deflect the heat. Ford put their solenoid on inner fender eliminating the heat to solenoid problem.

Beaumont67SD · Guru

My '70 GTO did this, won't restart after the temperature gauge came up to normal range.
- until engine cooled back down

Took the car to a top mechanic that use to fix dealer cars when they were stumped doing electrical warranty work.
- he told me to buy the heaviest/thickest ground cable to the battery, like 1 or 2 gauge (can't remember which)

^^^^ Problem solved.

-- Edited by Beaumont67SD on Thursday 9th of October 2014 05:51:13 AM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

tron64 wrote:
Before I received my 64 Custom Sport the previous owner told me that it wouldn't start after it got hot. I thought he meant it might struggle to, but nope. It doesn't even turn over.
I've heard a few reasons as to why this could happen.
Has anyone here experienced this issue? How did you resolve it?

need a new ground strap

67Poncho · Uber Guru

I believe we've discussed this many times... Most likely the "C100" main connector that passes through the firewall combined with old terminals, weakening ignition switch and small gauge wiring... Had this issue with most of my pre-'69 cars with dash mounted ignition switches... Pinpoint the purple wire from the ignition switch... ensure that the connections are clean and tight from there, to the neutral saftey, through the firewall connector and finally the "S" terminal on the solenoid.... Do the same with your red power feeds as well...

One of the most easiest way to cure this is to install a relay inline just before the starter to let it do all the work instead of the ignition switch!

tron64 · Member

67Poncho wrote:
I believe we've discussed this many times... Most likely the "C100" main connector that passes through the firewall combined with old terminals, weakening ignition switch and small gauge wiring... Had this issue with most of my pre-'69 cars with dash mounted ignition switches... Pinpoint the purple wire from the ignition switch... ensure that the connections are clean and tight from there, to the neutral saftey, through the firewall connector and finally the "S" terminal on the solenoid.... Do the same with your red power feeds as well...
One of the most easiest way to cure this is to install a relay inline just before the starter to let it do all the work instead of the ignition switch!

That's something I'll definitely look into.

I've heard some funky stuff about GM/Ford solenoid swaps that solve the issue, but I'd rather go down this road first.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, I did the Ford solenoid. It is real easy and works perfect.

It's just that whole Ford thing.....................

4 speed · Veteran Member

Hello , I had a 66 pontiac that did that and a hot starter needs full current more so than a cold one, but try turning the key to ON not start, and insert a screw driver in between the positive cable bolt on the starter (the big one ) and the small bolt on the block side of the starter and see if it clicks or cranks. If it does I predict you need an ignition switch at the dash. They wear out at the contact points inside, due to so many attempts at starting the car over the years. If you need a switch call me at 519 393 8400 as I got one from B.C. and it worked better than it ever had. regards...Terry

Urban_suburban · Poncho Master!

I had the same issue for a while - I changed the starter and no issues anymore

67Poncho · Uber Guru

Carl Stevenson wrote:
Yes, I did the Ford solenoid. It is real easy and works perfect.

It's just that whole Ford thing.....................

Just priced up a relay and harness kit we use to install as part of a recall back in the late '90's for Cavaliers, Sunfires, Grand-Ams etc..... These are an excellent kit to install and I will post a pic later of one I removed from a Cavalier...

New ones retail for $45 but is you have a scrap yard near by, most of the cars will have... GM # 22694036.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:
Yes, I did the Ford solenoid. It is real easy and works perfect.

It's just that whole Ford thing.....................

A/C Delco actually makes a solenoid if you can't think of installing a Ford part

tron64 · Member

427carl wrote:
Carl Stevenson wrote:
A/C Delco actually makes a solenoid if you can't think of installing a Ford part

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't A/C Delco been one of the main suppliers for GM ignition parts right out of the factory?

I seem to remember seeing something about Delco starters in some 64 models. I know that the battery that came stock in my Silverado was a Delco as well.

-- Edited by tron64 on Thursday 9th of October 2014 10:00:44 PM

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I had a hard start problem on my 454 Parisienne back in 1980. Problem ended up being the thermostat which was letting the engine get too hot. Figured this out after replacing the starter.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, AC Delco stuff has been on GM's for what seems like forever. I'm sure an internet search would likely reveal it's an old old company.

HonestDave · Addicted!

Another thing to check is the butterfly valve on the base of the right exhaust manifold. I couldn't tell you how many sixties cars I've had that did the same thing as yours. I had a 66 Parisienne rag back in the eighties. The 283 would start fine, but when I parked somewhere, it wouldn't even turn over for five or ten minutes, then it would crank up again. The butterfly valve at the base of the right exhaust manifold was broken and not opening. I wired it wide open and the problem never happened again. It was heating up the starter too much, I suppose.
Found numerous other cars over the years with the same issue. Some guy sold me a 69 New Yorker with a 440 in it for $100. Same thing, wouldn't start hot. I wired open the valve and it was good again.
I wouldn't be surprised if you find a broken spring that operates your valve, or the thing is just rusted shut. They still let some exhaust out, it's just really restricted.
Love to hear what you find.

HonestDave · Addicted!

In fact, I'm tearing down my 62 Parisienne parts car right now, and what do I find under the right exhaust manifold?
Someone's done this dance before !!

Indian · Guru

Heat is not a starters friend. Heat from themotor bakes the innards of the solenoid creating carbon giving you dead spots. GM tried to rectify the problem with a heat shield between starter and block.

BOSSY · Addicted!

Do you have HEDDERS or stock exhaust manifolds? Many Chevy starters get to hot with hedders and they need a shield.

HonestDave · Addicted!

BOSSY wrote:
Do you have HEDDERS or stock exhaust manifolds? Many Chevy starters get to hot with hedders and they need a shield.

That's what I've got on my 65 442 right now. A previous owner put headers on it, and it's really slow to turn over if it doesn't cool for fifteen or twenty minutes at least.

Try finding stock manifolds for big block A-body Olds......not easily done. Not cheaply, anyway.