Last summer had my engine rebuilt and i am finding it running at 200 degrees on the highway and by the time im at the 2nd light in city im at 210 plus and we are talking a 20 degree day.The rad that is currently in the car is a Harrison 3 core that im trying to get converted to a 4 core.First rad shop said that it cant be switched because there isnt enough room for more tanks and even a simple cleaning will probley turn it into a leaker as the tubes are chaulky white. Im going to get another shop to look and get thier opinion on a 4 core possibility.Kyle Lysholm had his 3 core rad converted to a 4 core with his 67 SD and thats what i would like to do as well as i just dont like the look of an aluminum rad.I am currently running a clutch fan and im still at these temps.
Anyone out there with a solution or an idea of a rad that will serve me better as i really want to keep the stock look?Were all rads from 67 beaumonts Harrison 3 cores that could be converted? Also if i have to go to an aluminum rad anyone seen anything they like that gives a cleaner stock appearance that would fit in my car??
Rad sounds like its part of the problem, clogged, but I don't think that is your total problem. If rad is that corroded most likely heater core is partially clogged also. I'm betting the thermostat is culprit, I'd pull it and drive car, see if its still hot. Throw thermostat into pan of boiling water see if she opens all the way, maybe yours isn't opening all the way. Another reason car over heats is because water pump isn't circulating coolant fast enough.
Yup clutch fans wear out. Is pull rad cap and pull thermostat, watch circulation flow in rad, if lots of flow then rad itself, the heater core and water pump are eliminated from causes, then all what's left is either clutch fan or thermostat as problem.
I have pulled the cap and watched the circulation and it seems like it had a very good flow.Also pulled the thermostat and boiled it and it did open.Clutch fan was put on last summer after rebuild so its relatively new.
Where is your temperature sending unit? If in the head, it'll read appx 20 degrees fahrenheit warmer than at the intake manifold or thermostat housing. Also, check your ignition timing as that has an influence on the temp. Are you missing a fan shroud? etc.
I'm suspicious of your rad, as you say the tubes are chalky white inside.
Is it a stock rebuild or has the engine been augmented? How is your timing? Does your lower rad hose have the spring inside to keep it from collapsing? 200 or 210 is not automatically a problem necessarily; in a pressurized system the temps will be higher and with the higher temps comes more efficiency in terms of ability to transfer heat. Modern cars don't switch on the electric fans until about 230. Also don't get carried away with "4 rows" because as you increase the rows you experience diminishing returns as the airflow and heat differential is reduced. I would say to stay with the fan clutch setup but verify that the thermostatic coupling is working properly. Sometimes they can lock up solid or sometimes they just slip and won't engage. The fan clutch setup is the best setup though, so don't be discouraged.
There is a very insightful thread over at Team Chevelle regarding the proper effective cooling of these cars. I will have to find the link but the thread contains much useful stuff. Rather than reinventing the wheel...
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
It was a stock rebuild and the timing was checked and is where it should be.Maybe i am ok at 200-210 temps,i get a little freaked out when i see it there and keep wondering whats next.I know last fall sitting in line waiting to get in to a car show it climbed to around 225 and released a bit of coolant when i was finally parked,that was probley 2 blocks over a 10 minute wait.Seemed like an hour!! Do you think im ok with my current setup CdnGmfan??
If all else checks out as far as the fan and T Stat, timing, hoses etc, I'd replace your original rad with a stock appearing, black painted aluminum 2 row, 1" core.
I wouldn't get too hung up on a 4 row. You'd be surprised how well the 1" core x 2 aluminum will cool.
US Radiator has one, #AL010690ANDZ. Natural Aluminum, but the tanks could be painted.
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
Rad cap thats on it is a 16 pounder.Think im going to go back and try a few more things.There is a spring in the bottom hose so that covered but i currently have a 160 super stat in it and maybe i will try a 195.Tranny cooler is hooked up as well and eliminate that and see where it runs at that.Anyone like that "water wetter' product?? I have heard people say it has made a difference in some cases.Compression on new build is 10.5:1.so not far off stock.
I'm following the recommendations, as my car runs hot. I have all the components, but haven't installed them to run it yet and provide feedback.
I bought a 4 row rad and shroud kit from Ausleys for $360. It didn't seem worth trying to get my 3 row rebuilt at that price. The testimonials in that thread are pretty good! Especially if you want a stock look, you can't ask for more...put in a 4 row, a shroud, a HD Clutch fan and a high flow thermostat and it should all work just fine if the pump and other components are functioning well and your car is tuned/timed appropriately. There are more high dollar solutions as well, like high quality alum rads, electric fans etc. but you're into it for couple grand. The real cheap stuff is hit and miss.
Good luck, and report back any results. I'll do that once I'm installed and running.
I would say at this point, monitor the situation before attempting an unneeded re-engineering of things. The General made things so they could cover the average driving situation with the hardware provided. GM produced millions of cars with less than the state-of-the-art cooling, yet liability-conscious GM went with the hardware that most customers rolled with. Think about it before radical action. Seriously...
I totally advocate upgrading cooling and other systems, but just remember what was rolled out without any issues for the masses.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
I feel the need to mention that in 1966 GM ran 180 degree thermostats, but for 1967 with the relocated thermostat they were able to have tighter control of sensed temps and decided to run with a 195 degree thermostat starting in 67. It helps with power, efficiency, crankcase moisture evaporation...
Before re-engineering, make sure the basics have all been addressed completely. Not to sound like a know-it-all, but seriously, GM wrestled with this before releasing these cars for production. They also offered optional upgrades (at modest cost) for the inspired or for the customers that demanded more from their vehicles. Physics...
An aluminum rad painted (lightly) with black rad paint can fool a lot of people while increasing efficiency.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
I would get a digital thermo gun and verify the temp. All over. You may be able to see wher the heat is coming from or if it is getting hot at all. I have a newly rebuilt rad for a 67 you are welcome to try or buy.
I agree, 190 or 195 thermostat! I actually had to go back to a original type one, not a ho-flow. Seems to open just enough to allow coolant to go thru the rad at a slower rate (more retention time so it can cool down) to keep the temp at around 200 to 210. BBC's seem to run better at higher temps! Actually my new GMC runs at 100 deg C ( 212 F) all day long!
SOMETHING ELSE TO CONSIDER, FRESH ENGINES (YOU DON'T MENTION HOW MANY MILES ON IT, JUST THAT IT'S REBUILT) WILL SOMETIMES RUN A LITTLE WARM UNTIL THEY WEAR IN A LITTLE. ALSO, THE 160 THERMOSTAT SEEMS A LITTLE LOW IMO.
Hey Kevin
I started my 454 last year with the original two row rad rebuilt to a three row down flow. My transmission cooling has been separated from the main radiator. I did this mainly because of all the hype about BB's over heating. I put a 195 degree thermostat in the intake , left the recirculation hose on the H20 pump, I ran a derralli dual fan (4000 cfm electric fan system, 1000 cfm per 100 cu in rule of thumb).
The catch here is I started my car with WATER only. I did this knowing I was going to flush the engine and refill with the correct prestone & water solution before I put it away for the Winter. I am glad I did , the sludge that came out of the engine base plugs was incredible.
The learning here is that, I drove my car from mid June to late September with water only, the engine had a hard time to even hit 170 degrees!@#$$%. I based this on the boiling point of water being higher than glycol. I flushed the water and ran the car with a total dilution of only 8 liters of prestone. My car now runs at around 195 - 200 degrees (mechanical gauge / top of Intake Manifold). However, my winter storage issue with this dilution ratio my glycol meter reaches only -20.
In short, I believe excessive glycol in your cooling system can cause over heating problems because glycol boils at a lower temperature than water.
Hey Kevin I started my 454 last year with the original two row rad rebuilt to a three row down flow. My transmission cooling has been separated from the main radiator. I did this mainly because of all the hype about BB's over heating. I put a 195 degree thermostat in the intake , left the recirculation hose on the H20 pump, I ran a derralli dual fan (4000 cfm electric fan system, 1000 cfm per 100 cu in rule of thumb).
The catch here is I started my car with WATER only. I did this knowing I was going to flush the engine and refill with the correct prestone & water solution before I put it away for the Winter. I am glad I did , the sludge that came out of the engine base plugs was incredible.
The learning here is that, I drove my car from mid June to late September with water only, the engine had a hard time to even hit 170 degrees!@#$$%. I based this on the boiling point of water being higher than glycol. I flushed the water and ran the car with a total dilution of only 8 liters of prestone. My car now runs at around 195 - 200 degrees (mechanical gauge / top of Intake Manifold). However, my winter storage issue with this dilution ratio my glycol meter reaches only -20.
In short, I believe excessive glycol in your cooling system can cause over heating problems because glycol boils at a lower temperature than water.
Good luck with your project. Dale
It is actually the opposite according to my research as far as the boiling point. With glycol added the boiling temperature is raised but the one thing you do give up is the heat transfer capability. With more antifreeze added you loose a percentage of your heat transfer. Another thing that has been mentioned previously by Beau67SD is the purpose of your thermostat is to slow down the circulation of your coolant. People think that with a lower thermostat or no thermostat that it will cool the best because the coolant is circulating through there at a great pace. It is actually the opposite, the slower it goes through there the more heat it takes with it and it also has time in the rad to be cooled. Just like putting a red hot ember in your hand and you might be able to hold it for a half a second and not much happens but the longer you hold it the cooler that ember will become plus the obvious result to your hand. If it goes barrelling through your rad it barely cools off and also if it goes barrelling through your engine it hardly picks up any heat. Still think the biggest problem with most cooling situations though are plugged rads and poor shrouding or fans, there isn't much more to it than that really.
