Opinions wanted on oil synthetic vs conventional

Veteran Member

Opinions wanted on oil synthetic vs conventional

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

A general thought is to stick with conventional oil in your high mileage engine. It really wasn't designed to run synthetic, and while the synthetic oil won't directly cause leaks, it works to remove deposits that are presently plugging the leaks. That leads to leaks.

I've been running Shells Rotella T oil for 10 years, but it's zinc levels have been reduced over the years. For my last couple oil changes in my 70 454, I included some Lucas zinc additive along with my Rotella T oil. However, in the future I'm going to go with Lucas Hot Rod & Classic oil that has zinc.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Plus one on conventional oil in the 283.

Mike Ward MB · Addicted!

A good conventional!! Steer clear of synthetic for a medium to high mileage engine.

My only experience with synthetic left me wishing I'd never tried it and never will again. I can attest to the fact that synthetic will find its way out of an engine where conventional oil use for years didn't leak. Going back to conventional didn't help, the leaks kept leaking. Ended up having to keep a piece of cardboard in the trunk to slip under the engine when parking on some of my friends fancy driveways.

There are conventional motor oils on the market with the additives necessary for new engine break-in, high mileage engines and hard duty use. There are also specific supplements for standard grade motor oil to meet any requirement you might have.

Castrol GTX is my brand of choice for daily drivers and my GM Performance crate engine. My new 454 with flat tappet cam will be getting the conventional oil recommended by my engine builder which has all the additives necessary for break-in.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

If they aren't already pissing, all those old seals and gaskets will begin to leak all over the place with synthetic. It takes about a year to see the result.

Steer clear like Mike said. Your original engine will never need synthetic. Use absolutely any Dino of a brand name and you're good today.

It's a topic sure to invite opinion....

hawkeye5766 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Use Castrol GTx in all my cars (283/LS) with 200ml of AC Oil supplement for every oil change. Pull out your cam...it will slip out of your hands. wink 7.3 gets Rotella 15/40. Stick with old school and add some additive.

Image result for eos oil additive

poncho62 · Poncho Master!

When I bought my 97 GMC about 4 years ago, I didnt know what oil the previous owner was using. Next oil change, I switched it over to synthetic. No leaks or anything, but after a while it developed a tick on startup as if a lifter was sticking, After a minute, the tick would go away. Next few oil changes, I tried the more expensive synthetics, then tried the SeaFoam and Lucas oil additives etc,,,,,,still had the tick. Pretty frustrating. This spring, I decided to try the CTC brand conventional oil and do a couple of short term oil changes......Almost right away, the tick has gone away. Maybe its just coincidence, but I am sticking with the conventional changing at 5000 km.

BTW....I do notice that the synthetic oil seems thinner when pouring into the engine than conventional.....anyone else notice this?

long stroke · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

In my 57 Pontiac 261 in liner i use 20w50 with a ZINC additive. In my 74 Chev 400 V-8 i use 10w30 with a ZINC additive. With these flat tappet engines using ZINC is critical and i learned this the hard way. I would only use synthetic on today's more modern hi tech engines. I forgot to add that i put 3,000 to 4,000 miles on the 57 Pontiac (April to October) and about 1,000 miles on the 74 Chev (April to October).

-- Edited by long stroke on Monday 24th of April 2017 07:15:47 PM

canso_SD · Addicted!

There have been some good independent studies on this subject. i recall a person on Steves nova site a few years ago doing his own independent testing using a private lab.
and the results. standard oil, specifically Mobile 1 and one other brand i don`t recall the name were by far Superior. youtube has some good oil comparisons to.

DonSSDD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I also use a 10-W-30 and EOS with each oil change in my old stuff. The synthetic did leak and stopped leaking when I went back to conventional. My modern vehicles have been synthetic since 1998 or before, I love the stuff, am at well over 1 million km's on 3 or 4 vehicles with narry a problem.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:
Plus one on conventional oil in the 283.

Oil is a long subject Most of our customers with million mile Diesel are running Conventional 15W40

My 2008 Suburban used 3 litres of Synthetic oil between oil changes up to 180,000 km I changed to premium conventional oil and at 249,000 it does not use a drop

I'll never use synthetic again in any of my 7 vehicles (2 cents)

bjburnout · Uber Guru

DonSSDD wrote:
I also use a 10-W-30 and EOS with each oil change in my old stuff.

......exactly.......have used Castrol GTX 20W50 forever (30 - 40+ years) and always EOS in the old engines (do not used with a

catalytic converter).........may be switching to 10W30 this summer after some conversations with other engine builders. Buy as

much of the EOS as you can, there is always rumors that GM will stop producing it........been using it since 1964.

beaumontguru · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I have switched to full synth 5w30 in my winter 1967 beaumont with a 250 inline 6. I have never looked back, i dont really give to shits if it leaks oil, that just helps to prevent rust. I cant plug in at work and the car sits all day in sometimes -40, starts every time, never would have done that with conventional. Iguess it all boils down to what you use your car for!!! Most guys could probably run for years on any old crap used oil, they never drive thier cars anyway!

I do add a bottle of GM EOS every time, just for the zinc.

Every other car gets castrol 10w30 or rotella conventional with a 500 ml of EOS.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

When I acquired a low mileage ( 36,000 ) original car I wondered about using a synthetic engine oil and transmission fluid. Made a call to one of the major synthetic oil companies, which one escapes me, and was advised to just use conventional oil and fluid. One of the reasons given was leakage from old seals. They said it wouldn't be cost effective to use synthetics as no benefits would be noticed.

Veteran Member

Thanks to ALL for taking the time to offer advice and opinions. Much appreciated!

My '64 will be a summer cruiser only. So based on all the advice and replies, I'm going to go with conventional Rotella T 15w40 oil and either the GM EOS or Lucas zinc additive (depending on what's available close by)

Thanks again

-- Edited by 64283 on Monday 24th of April 2017 08:59:48 PM

65wagon · Poncho Master!

I run nothing but synthetics in even the old high mileage ones, but they all get new seals to stem the leak, synthetic has saved a few engines after they over heated but older motors will use or loose some , I also use zinc addatives for cam safety , never had a major issue.

GLHS60 · Poncho Master!

Interesting article by Bob Olree on Zinc GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group

Thanks
Randy

'A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling".

Over the years there has been an overabundance of engine oil myths. Here are some facts you may want to pass along to customers to help debunk the fiction behind these myths.

The Pennsylvania Crude Myth -- This myth is based on a misapplication of truth. In 1859, the first commercially successful oil well was drilled in Titusville, Pennsylvania.
A myth got started before World War II claiming that the only good oils were those made from pure Pennsylvania crude oil. At the time, only minimal refining was used to make engine oil from crude oil. Under these refining conditions, Pennsylvania crude oil made better engine oil than Texas crude or California crude. Today, with modern refining methods, almost any crude can be made into good engine oil.

Other engine oil myths are based on the notion that the new and the unfamiliar are somehow "bad."

The Detergent Oil Myth -- The next myth to appear is that modern detergent engine oils
are bad for older engines. This one got started after World War II, when the government no longer needed all of the available detergent oil for the war effort, and detergent oil hit the market as heavy-duty oil.

Many pre-war cars had been driven way past their normal life, their engines were full of sludge and deposits, and the piston rings were completely worn out. Massive piston deposits were the only thing standing between merely high oil consumption and horrendous oil consumption. After a thorough purge by the new detergent oil, increased oil consumption was a possible consequence.

If detergent oils had been available to the public during the war, preventing the massive deposit buildup from occurring in the first place, this myth never would have started. Amazingly, there are still a few people today, 60 years later, who believe that they need to use non-detergent oil in their older cars. Apparently, it takes many years for an oil myth to die.

The Synthetic Oil Myth -- Then there is the myth that new engine break-in will not occur with synthetic oils. This one was apparently started by an aircraft engine manufacturer who put out a bulletin that said so. The fact is that Mobil 1 synthetic oil has been the factory-fill for many thousands of engines. Clearly, they have broken in quite well, and that should put this one to rest.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatibility was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

Bob Olree GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group

-- Edited by GLHS60 on Tuesday 25th of April 2017 12:09:43 AM

GLHS60 · Poncho Master!

A long cut and paste but informative.

540 Rat tested the following oils for "protection" in PSI.

Additives increased some oils and reduced others protection !!

Thanks
Randy

In short... thin is in... top 10 ranked oils are 30 grades...

So, as you can see, oil viscosity plays no particular role in an oils wear protection capability. As mentioned above, an oils wear protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive package as a whole, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which contains the extreme pressure components.

Wear protection reference categories are:

Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection

90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection

All the oils were tested at a representative operational temperature of 230*F.

The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.

1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 115,612 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection. For once, a products hype turns out to be true. And this oil provides MORE THAN TWICE as much wear protection as the lowest ranked oil on this list.
Chrysler is so impressed with Pennzoil Ultra, that they selected the 0W40 version of it as the only Factory Fill oil for their latest 8.4L, 640 HP, V-10, 200+ mph, Dodge SRT Viper.
zinc = 806 ppm
phosphorus = 812 ppm
moly = 66 ppm
calcium = 3,011 ppm
TBN = 10.3

2. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 111,570 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of 115,612 psi, and is ranked 1st. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT DOWN 3.5%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD

3. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 111,061psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 71,206 psi, and is ranked 88th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT UP A BREATH TAKING 56%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD

4. 5W30 Oil Extreme, API SM synthetic (per the Oil Company, even though synthetic wording is not shown on the label) = 110,286 psi
The Company claims this oil contains their proprietary formula of calcium petroleum sulfontate EP (Extreme Pressure) technology that is NOT found in any other motor oil. They also claim that it will provide 5 to 7 more HP, 7 to 10% better fuel mileage, cut engine wear in half, and will extend drain intervals two or three times safely. This oil is endorsed and promoted by Tech Author David Vizard. And he was so impressed by this oils performance that he also became a share holder in the Company. The results from the Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load performed here, fully supports their claim regarding wear protection. So, their hype about that, turned out to be absolutely true. And since this oil beat every high zinc oil Ive ever tested, it also proved another one of their claims, that using zinc as the primary anti-wear component, is outdated technology.
zinc = 765 ppm
phosphorus = 624 ppm
moly = 52 ppm
calcium = 7,652 ppm
TBN = 23.2

5. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phosphorus = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
calcium = 2,929 ppm
TBN = 9.0
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

6. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phosphorus = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm
calcium = 799 ppm
TBN = 7.5

7. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil conventional = 105,758 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 62,538 psi, and is ranked 104th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT UP A MIND BLOWING 69%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD

8. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN synthetic = 105,008 psi
zinc = 824 ppm
phosphorus = 960 ppm
moly = 161 ppm
calcium = 3,354 ppm
TBN = 11.4

9. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phosphorus = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm
calcium = 1,607 ppm
TBN = 4.4
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

10. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 103,517 psi
zinc = 606 ppm
phosphorus = 742 ppm
moly = 28 ppm
calcium = 1,710 ppm
TBN = 6.7

11. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phosphorus = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm
calcium = 2,707 ppm
TBN = 7.6

12. 5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic, API CI-4 PLUS, CF, SL, ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7 = 102,642 psi
This is BY FAR, the highest ranked Diesel oil I have ever tested. This oil is Engineered for Diesel engines not equipped with Diesel particulate filters (DPF). Amsoil says this oil delivers better wear protection than other popular Diesel oils. And in this case, their hype is absolutely true. They also say it effectively reduces fuel consumption, with its advanced fuel efficient formula. This oil costs $11.15 per quart in the 2013 Amsoil Factory Direct Retail Catalog, which is 10% more than Amsoils 5W40 Premium Synthetic Diesel Oil. So, in this case, you pay only 10% more for the Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, but you get a whopping 33% more wear protection than you get with the Amsoils 5W40 Premium Synthetic Diesel Oil. Money very well spent, if you run a Diesel oil intended for engines not equipped with Diesel particulate filters. The next highest ranked Diesel oil only ranks a very unimpressive 54th out of the 118 oils Ive tested so far. So, this 5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is in a class of its own, among all the Diesel oils I have tested.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

13. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 102,059 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of 105,875 psi, and is ranked 6th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT DOWN 3.6%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD
calcium = TBD
TBN = TBD

14. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phosphorus = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm
calcium = 2,664 ppm
TBN = 7.4

15. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, yellow bottle = 100,252 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi, and is ranked 69th. But, with 1.5 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the bottles instruction for street driven vehicles, its wear protection capability WENT UP A WHOPPING 30%.
zinc = 970 ppm
phosphorus = 749 ppm, this value is 91 ppm lower than the basic oil because the concentrate has less phosphorus in it, which diluted the overall ppm count of the mixture.
moly = 285 ppm
calcium = 4,443 ppm
TBN = 18.8

16. 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional = 100,011 psi
This oil only cost $4.29 per quart at an Auto Parts Store when I bought it.
zinc = 1018 ppm
phos = 728 ppm
moly = 161 ppm

17. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 99,983 psi
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm

18. 5W30 Pennzoil Platinum, API SN synthetic = 99,949 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

19. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, yellow bottle = 99,529 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi, and is ranked 69th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT UP 29%.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

20. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic = 98,396 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of 110,286 psi, and is ranked 4th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT DOWN 11%.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD.
moly = TBD

21. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, yellow bottle = 97,651 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi, and is ranked 69th. But, with 3.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability WENT UP 27%.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

22. 10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
zinc = 1613 ppm
phos = 1394 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

23. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, yellow bottle = 96,739 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi, and is ranked 69th. But, with 4.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability WENT UP 26%.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

24. 20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 96,514 psi
zinc = 610 ppm
phos = 754 ppm
moly = 94 ppm

25. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

26. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi
zinc = 742 ppm
phos = 677 ppm
moly = 81 ppm

27. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN synthetic = 95,920 psi
zinc = 877 ppm
phos = 921 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

28. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 95,717 psi
zinc = 818 ppm
phos = 883 ppm
moly = 90 ppm
titanium = 44 ppm

29. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi
zinc = 743 ppm
phos = 802 ppm
moly = 1125 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

30. 5W20 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,543 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: Oil numbers 29 and 30 were tested weeks apart, but due to the similarities in their wear scar sizes, their averages ended up the same.

31. 5W30 Castrol GTX ,API SN conventional = 95,392 psi
zinc = 830 ppm
phos = 791 ppm
moly = 1 ppm

32. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm

33. 5W30 Havoline, API SN conventional = 95,098 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

34. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,942 psi
zinc = 969 ppm
phos = 761 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

35. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional = 94,864 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of 100,011 psi, and is ranked 16thth. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT DOWN 5.1%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD

36. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

37. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 94,663 psi
zinc = 764 ppm
phos = 698 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

38. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,460 psi
zinc = 1045 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

39. 5W30 Lucas, API SN conventional = 92,073 psi
zinc = 992 ppm
phos = 760 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

40. 5W30 OReilly (house brand), API SN conventional = 91,433 psi
This oil only cost $3.99 per quart at an Auto Parts Store when I bought it.
zinc = 863 ppm
phos = 816 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

41. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi
zinc = 2162 ppm
phos = 2294 ppm
moly = 181 ppm

42. 5W30 Red Line, API SN synthetic = 91,028 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

43. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi
zinc = 964 ppm
phos = 892 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

44. 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm

45. 10W60 Castrol TWS Motorsport, API SJ conventional = 90,163 psi
This oil is manufactured in Europe and is sold in the US for BMW models M3, M5, M6, Z4M, and Z8.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

46. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

47. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 89,659 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of 95,392 psi, and is ranked 31st. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT DOWN 6%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD

48. 5W30 Havoline, API SN synthetic = 89,406 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

49. 30 wt Castrol Heavy Duty, API SM conventional = 88,089 psi
zinc = 907 ppm
phos = 829 ppm
moly = 56 ppm

50. 20W50 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 87,930 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

51. 5W30 Valvoline Nextgen 50% Recycled Oil, API SN conventional = 87,563 psi
zinc = 947 ppm
phos = 778 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

52. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
moly = 24 ppm

53. 5W20 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 86,034 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

54. 15W40 RED LINE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 85,663 psi
zinc = 1615 ppm
phos = 1551 ppm
moly = 173 ppm

55. 5W30 Castrol Edge w/Syntec, API SN (formerly Castrol Syntec) black bottle, synthetic = 85,179 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

56. 5W30 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 84,009 psi
zinc = 942 ppm
phos = 817 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

57. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

58. 20W50 Kendall GT-1 High Performance with liquid titanium, API SN conventional = 83,365 psi
zinc = 991 ppm
phos = 1253 ppm
moly = 57 ppm
titanium = 84 ppm

59. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm

60. 0W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 82,867 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

61. 5W30 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 81,800 psi
zinc = 1784 ppm
phos = 1539 ppm
moly = 598 ppm

62. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (extreme performance racing oil) synthetic = 81,723 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 74,860 psi, and is ranked 75th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT UP 9%.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD.
moly = TBD

63. 5W30 Peak, API SN synthetic = 80,716 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

64. 5W30 Edelbrock Cat-Safe, API SM synthetic = 78,609 psi
This oil is made for Edelbrock by Torco
zinc = 924 ppm
phos = 659 ppm
moly = 28 ppm
65. 30wt Amsoil Break-In Oil conventional = 78,192 psi
zinc = 2051 ppm
phos = 1917 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

66. 20W50 Resolute Racing Oil, API SN conventional = 77,554 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil cost only $2.49 per quart when bought for this test. It is a Regional Oil from the Mid-Western U.S. farm country.

67. 5W40 Amsoil Premium Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CF, SN, SM, ACEA E7, E9 = 77,207 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

68. 15W40 ROYAL PURPLE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4 = 76,997 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

69. 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN yellow bottle, conventional = 76,989 psi
zinc = 839 ppm
phos = 840 ppm
moly = 267 ppm

70. 10W40 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional = 76,806 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

71. 5W30 Lucas API SM synthetic = 76,584 psi
zinc = 1134 ppm
phos = 666 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

72. 5W30 GMs AC Delco dexos 1 API SN semi-synthetic = 76,501 psi
zinc = 878 ppm
phos = 758 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

73. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi
zinc = 1252 ppm
phos = 1197 ppm
moly = 71 ppm

74. Oil Extreme concentrate added to 10W30 Comp Cams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil semi-synthetic = 74,874 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the Oil Extreme concentrate added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 60,413 psi, and is ranked 106th. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability WENT UP AN IMPRESSIVE 24%.
zinc = TBD
phosphorus = TBD.
moly = TBD

75. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm

76. 15W40 Cenpeco (Central Petroleum Company) S-3 Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF, CE, CD, SL, SJ, SH = 74,593 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

77. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

78. 0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 73,811 psi
zinc = 1676 ppm
phos = 1637 ppm
moly = 1263 ppm

79. 5W30 Peak, API SN conventional = 73,690 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

80. 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM, = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
moly = 80 ppm

81. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
moly = 46 ppm

82. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel Oil conventional CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

83. 15W40 NEW SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

84. Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil semi-synthetic = 72,003 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

85. 0W30 Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 71,923 psi
zinc = 1693 ppm
phos = 1667 ppm
moly = 1326 ppm

86. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,377 psi
zinc = 1621 ppm
phos = 1437 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

87. 15W40 OLD SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 71,214 psi
zinc = 1171 ppm
phos = 1186 ppm
moly = 0 ppm
Yes its true, the old Rotella actually has LESS zinc than the new Rotella.

88. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

89. 15W40 VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 70,869 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

90. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

91. 10W40 Resolute All Season Motor Oil, API SN conventional = 69,709 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil cost $2.49 per quart when bought for this test. It is a Regional Oil from the Mid-Western U.S. farm country.

92. 5W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 69,631 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

93. 30wt Edelbrock Break-In Oil conventional = 69,160 psi
zinc = 1545 ppm
phos = 1465 ppm
moly = 4 ppm

94. 5W30 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 68,782 psi
zinc = 796 ppm
phos = 830 ppm
moly = 75 ppm

95. 10W40 Edelbrock synthetic = 68,603 psi
zinc = 1193 ppm
phos = 1146 ppm
moly = 121 ppm
This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco.

96. 5W40 SHELL ROTELLA T6 Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL = 67,804 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

97. 15W40 LUCAS MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 66,476 psi
zinc = 1441 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

98. 15W40 CASTROL GTX DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 66,323 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

99. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) synthetic = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
moly = 189 ppm

100. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil, API SJ conventional = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

101. 5W30 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 64,175 psi
zinc = 1765 ppm
phos = 2468 ppm
moly = 339 ppm

102. ZDDPlus added to Royal Purple 20W50, API SN, synthetic = 63,595 psi
zinc = 2436 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2053 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 24% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Most major Oil Companies say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oils chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

103. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
zinc = 1170 ppm
phos = 1039 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

104. 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi
zinc = 2116 ppm
phos = 1855 ppm
moly = 871 ppm

105. 0W20 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 60,941 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

106. 10W30 Comp Cams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil, synthetic blend = 60,413 psi
zinc = 1673 ppm
phos = 1114 ppm
moly = 67 ppm
This oil is manufactured for Comp Cams by Endure.

107. 10W40 Torco TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi
zinc = 1456 ppm
phos = 1150 ppm
moly = 227 ppm

108. 10W40 Summit Racing Premium Racing Oil, API SL = 59,483 psi
This oil is made for Summit by I.L.C.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: This oil line was discontinued in Spring 2013.

109. 10W40 Edelbrock conventional = 59,120 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco.

110. 0W20 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 57,228 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

111. ZDDPlus added to OReilly (house brand) 5W30, API SN, conventional = 56,728 psi
zinc = 2711 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2172 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 38% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

112. ZDDPlus added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 56,243 psi
zinc = 2955 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2114 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 76 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The amount of ZDDPlus added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 12% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

113. 0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil = 55,080 psi
zinc = 1952 ppm
phos = 1671 ppm
moly = 1743 ppm

114. Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to Royal Purple 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 54,044 psi
zinc = 1515 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1334 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was a whopping 36% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

115. 10W30 Comp Cams Break-In Oil conventional = 51,749 psi
zinc = 3004 ppm
phos = 2613 ppm
moly = 180 ppm

116. Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was a breath taking 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

117. Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 50,202 psi
zinc = 1680 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1275 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 89 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The amount of Edelbrock Zinc Additive added to the oil, was the exact amount the manufacturer called for on the bottle. And the resulting psi value here was 22% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oils wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

118. 30wt Lucas Break-In Oil conventional = 49,455 psi
zinc = 4483 ppm
phos = 3660 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

*************** MOTOR OIL VISCOSITY SELECTION **************

THE BENEFITS OF USING THINNER OIL:

Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall.

The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes.

Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after.

The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering.

The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo. Because oil flow is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil pressure.

Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will be driving up engine component temps.

Thinner oil will typically increase HP because of less viscous drag and reduced pumping losses, compared to thicker oils. That is why very serious Race efforts will generally use watery thin oils in their engines. But, an exception to this increase in HP would be in high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, where thinner oil can allow the lifters to bleed-off at higher rpm. In everyday street vehicles, where fuel consumption is a consideration, thinner oils will also typically increase fuel economy. The majority of new cars sold in the U.S. now call for 5W20 specifically for increased fuel economy. And now Diesel trucks are increasingly calling for 5W30, also for fuel economy improvement.

With the exception of high rpm hydraulic lifter engines, almost no engine should ever need to run oil thicker than a multi-viscosity 30 weight. The lower the first number cold viscosity rating, the better the cold flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better cold than 20W50. And 0W30 flows WAY better cold than straight 30wt, which is horrible for cold start-up flow and should be avoided at all cost. And the lower the second number hot viscosity rating, the better the hot flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better hot than 20W50.

Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils. Extensive dynamic wear testing under load of dozens and dozens of motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package as a whole, is what determines an oils wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W20 oils have proven to provide OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engine.

540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

-- Edited by GLHS60 on Tuesday 25th of April 2017 12:23:10 AM

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

In other words Randy ... they are slippy eh? wink

bjburnout · Uber Guru

........thanx for posting Randy.....very informative.....

DANO65 · Poncho Master!

Excellent information Randy! Thanks for posting that.

GLHS60 · Poncho Master!

I thought it was interesting as I'm leery of oil company claims as they are hard for individuals to prove/disprove.

A long time ago I started mixing oils to try and figure out if I could learn anything.

I mixed multi grade with single and conventional with Synthetic, randomly, all brands except Castrol.

I still haven't had any Engine problems that could be considered oil related.

After tightening up many old loose Engines, mainly Ford with straight wt. oil my preference is still single grade.

Ford V8's with flashing oil light and main bearing rumble can be "cured" with #50 for months.

I've recently been running my own semi synthetic using CTC #30-40 or 50 as a base and about a liter of Synthetic.

My wifes old car a 2001, 2.7 V6 Chrysler was a great test bed, dealer oil while under warranty and then...

Every and any cobo I could think of at about each 5,000 km oil change, pure Synthetic to straight #40.

After 10 yrs she got a new car but the old 2.7 is back home with me and still purrs at 320 K.

I ran Mobil 1 in my high boost Omni at first but switched to #40 as it prevented occasional hyd "lifter clack"

Engine is apart for a refresh and the cam, crank and bearings are excellent.

I do use STP oil treatment as it can reduce Engine oil temp.

Not recommending anything only sharing my personal anecdotal experiences.

Anyone else doing anything "not by the book"

Thanks

Randy

Veteran Member

Almost everyone has seen this Lucas Engine Oil Stabilizer display in an auto parts store. With a 20% mix of this additive and regular oil,...the oil travels all the way to the top gear, where plain oil only lubricates the bottom wheel. Looks impressive. And almost everyone who has seen this display gives each side a crank and thinks,. wow,.. this stuff must work! Looking for some opinions on this stuff.

lucas oil.jpg

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I've heard of oil consumption issues when people started using it.

Bill shuba · Guru

very informative I have never had a car with the canister type oil filter 63 327 are the inside filters readily available..? thanks once again guys