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Post Info TOPIC: Need Help/Advice with my 4 speed conversion....finding the right Hurst competition + shifter for my M21 Muncie.


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Need Help/Advice with my 4 speed conversion....finding the right Hurst competition + shifter for my M21 Muncie.


Slowly gathering up the pieces for my conversions.

Got the pedals and the transmission so far

Muncie M21 built April 03. 1969.

#3925660 for 1968-1970.

I want to know what particular Hurst shifter I need to look for to match up

to this Muncie and what Hurst linkage kit  I need  to  use for my 63 Parisienne 

that's presently a powerglide on the floor.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

-G



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I can put you in touch with a gent that can provide a rebuilt Hurst Competition Plus shifter, including all the rods & levers.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but the tranny's changed from either having studs sticking out of them for the shift levers, to requiring bolts for the levers, or the other way around. Which do you have? Studs sticking our of the shift forks, or a place for a bolt to go in? That'll determine which kit you get.

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70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop

 

 

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A Poncho Legend!

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When I was shopping for a Hurst for my 66 I noticed Summit has for a 63 but not 66. Not cheap but it gives the Hurst numbers for the shifter and linkage kits (assuming they have it listed right) so you could shop around.

https://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts/huu-3733163/all/year/1963/make/chevrolet/model/impala

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/huu-3917308/overview/year/1963/make/chevrolet/model/impala

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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That Summit kit looks like it has the 3 bolts that go through the levers into the transmission which should be correct for a 1969/70 transmission. In my Hurst drawings it shows 65-67 had the studs sticking out of the transmission for the levers to bolt to.

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70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop

 

 



A Poncho Legend!

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And if it's wrong that easily cured with the right levers that are bolt on vs. stud style. If I remember right the rectangular opening is a different length between the two styles.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Might need to show some caution on whether that shifter kit will bolt onto the tailshaft housing of the later transmission.

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70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop

 

 



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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here's a pic of the M21....looks to be 3 bolts.

Muncie M21 Transmission 3925660.jpg



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I'm not a Muncie expert, but I'd say that tailshaft housing is earlier than 1969.

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70 2+2 hardtop
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Uber Guru

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you have a '69 or later trans, (shifter arms attach with a bolt, '68 and earlier had studs) a Chevelle Comp Plus should work and fit your tunnel



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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The shifter itself is usually the same part number but the mount for the shifter should be for the xframe so it sits right. Do you have buckets os a bench? Do you plan on using a stock correct shifter boot? The shift arms to but are the year of Muncie you have. Im not home now but if you google you may find a site that has all the correct part numbers for hurst shifters and what part numbers are in each kit.

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



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this M21 transmission is: #3925660
 
Decoded it shows the following:
 
1968-1979 series
 
built in Muncie Indiana
 
built on April 03 1969
 
Input shaft is 10 splines
 
Output shaft is 26 tooth 27 Splines
 
 
My 63 is bucket seats with a powerglide floor console.
 
My intent is to make it look factory with the four speed in the existing console.
 
So Don, what you are saying is actual shifters (Hurst competition Plus) are all the same but I would need a kit  similar to this
 
to make it correct for my x body 63?
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HURST-373-3163-INSTALLATION-KIT-COMPETITION-PLUS-GM-A-X-BODY-64-67/332055899506?epid=153907431&hash=item4d5012ed72%3Ag%3AOSQAAOSw14xWL0Q4&fits=Year%3A1963%7CMake%3AChevrolet%7CModel%3AImpala


-- Edited by Greaser on Tuesday 20th of March 2018 09:12:01 AM

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I have a feeling you're going to need a 4 speed console, as typically the left side of the 4 speed consoles are bumped out on the left allow the left to right motion of the shifter.  Reverse on those Muncie's is in & up.

Here's a 63 Impala SS 4 speed console - I grabbed the photo off ebay.

s-l1600.jpg

I imagine you'll have a tough time finding a 63 Parisienne 4 speed console - but they're out there somewhere.



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70 2+2 convertible
70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop

 

 

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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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seventy2plus2 wrote:

I have a feeling you're going to need a 4 speed console, as typically the left side of the 4 speed consoles are bumped out on the left allow the left to right motion of the shifter.  Reverse on those Muncie's is in & up.

Here's a 63 Impala SS 4 speed console - I grabbed the photo off ebay.

s-l1600.jpg

I imagine you'll have a tough time finding a 63 Parisienne 4 speed console - but they're out there somewhere.


 No worries Clint.......Consoles can be used for manual or automatic transmission vehicles with the correct shift plate (sold separately).

 

the 1963 Impala SS (identical to 1963 Parisienne) used the same center console for both Powerglides and 4-speeds. Only the shift pattern plate is different. Photo #25 shows the center console with the 

new 4-speed shift pattern plate installed. The 4- speed shifter boot is to the left. The old Powerglide shift pattern plate is to the right. 

 

 

 

 

IMG_9959.JPG

 The underside of the console for a 1963 Impala/Parisienne



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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This is the site I mentioned, it has good details on part numbers.

https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com/productcart/pc/Hurst-Replacement-Shifter-Handles-Sticks-c51.htm

It has muncie id charts, according to the chart  you have a 69 & later 452. I think the only external difference is the change from a stud and nut to a bolt.

I'll ask some 63 SS Chevy people who should know which parts fit best. The shifters have the same base shift parts but some have a higher bracket where the shifter mounts. The mounting brackets also vary a bit in height so getting one that works with the 63 console and boot is important.

Show Cars sell the whole setup and they are good to buy from but you may find it a bit cheaper elsewhere. Their kit is for the early muncie with stud and nut but they may also sell one for the stud type.

Don

6846.jpg



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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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DonSSDD wrote:

This is the site I mentioned, it has good details on part numbers.

https://www.hurstshiftersonline.com/productcart/pc/Hurst-Replacement-Shifter-Handles-Sticks-c51.htm

It has muncie id charts, according to the chart  you have a 69 & later 452. I think the only external difference is the change from a stud and nut to a bolt.

I'll ask some 63 SS Chevy people who should know which parts fit best. The shifters have the same base shift parts but some have a higher bracket where the shifter mounts. The mounting brackets also vary a bit in height so getting one that works with the 63 console and boot is important.

Show Cars sell the whole setup and they are good to buy from but you may find it a bit cheaper elsewhere. Their kit is for the early muncie with stud and nut but they may also sell one for the stud type.

Don

6846.jpg


 Don, getting my M21 next week and I'm wondering if you were able to get information from those 63 SS Chevy guys who have a console in their cars  about the Hurst shifter mounting brackets

and which they would recommend for a console. I'd like the shifter to look stock in the console if I could.

 

There is a shifter on the transmission I'm getting,but it is for a 69 full size Chev Biscayne (non console). Will it work?

From what I can see it looks like the shifter arm is welded. can this arm be removed and holes drilled for a bolted arm?

The new shifter arm will be a replicated 1963 arm, making it look stock.

Any help I can get from anyone with  this conversion would be greatly appreciated........this conversion is a new experience for me.

Thanks

-G

 

My new M21 Muncie  4 speed is presently sitting in a wagon. biggrin

The Alexander Kieth shift handle will be replaced......it's empty. no

20180801_192059.jpg



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A Poncho Legend!

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Looks a lot like the one I got for my 66 but chickened out and used a stock shifter.

I wonder if the 69 and 66 B body bench Hurst is the same? Could be.

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64345203/hurst-shifter-handle-wanted/

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Carl Stevenson wrote:

Looks a lot like the one I got for my 66 but chickened out and used a stock shifter.

I wonder if the 69 and 66 B body bench Hurst is the same? Could be.

http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64345203/hurst-shifter-handle-wanted/


 Carl,

Here's my friend Rick's 1969 427 2 door Biscayne interior as is now with an M22 Muncie.

20170820_170225.jpg

 



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A Poncho Legend!

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I'm afraid I can't see the handle very well in that shot to be able to tell.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Sorry Carl, the only picture of the shifter I have.

I'll contact Rick and have him send more of different angles and I'll forward them to you.

-G



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A Poncho Legend!

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No need, it's just curiosity, that's all.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I haven't got the info from the Chevy guys, will follow up again.

You can cut that shifter handle off and drill it (try to drill it so the holes are tight tolerance wise to the bolt you will use) for the 63 style handle. Not sure if it will have an offset that will fit a boot, it may come up off center to the hole in the boot?

Did it come with a shift kit that you can try? If yes, I'd cut that handle and drill it (so if what you have works, you just need to replace the handle) and try it? That's an old Hurst, it may be worn too much to use in any case.

I love the sound of an M22.

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



A Poncho Legend!

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Greaser wrote:

The Alexander Kieth shift handle will be replaced......it's empty. no

20180801_192059.jpg


 Must be a rare Maritime Muncie!



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Prince Edward Island

'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.

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