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Post Info TOPIC: 65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


Finally got my hands on the rare and elusive patina'd ivory shifter ball. Shifter now complete thanks to Carl!

Note added 1/29/20: cdnGMfan-Cameron: For 1968 GM switched to the crappy Muncie shifter that was mounted on the crossmember to isolate vibration but it also killed any precision. The lockout trigger was eliminated & replaced by a spring in the mechanism, plus the handle went from tubular hollow to flat blade. For '68 the non-console shift balls switched from white to black

Question; what do you do to have the ball stop with the shifter pattern in the right orientation? When tight, it's upside down. Hmm.

1.jpg

Below from a 65 Chevrolet assembly manual,

 

shifter.JPG

adj.JPG

 



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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A Poncho Legend!

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Good question. I have the same problem with mine. It's not that far off but it's not straight when it's screwed down. I am thinking I'll have to make some sort of shim to slide on the handle.

Funny you posted this now. I just spent a couple of hours prepping a spare shifter for mine when I change the trans/clutch/flywheel. Shimmed it up, new pivot pin for the levers, new spring tension washer. It's the closest-to-new feeling shifter I've ever had.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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I suppose you could clean the threads on both and apply some medium strength locktite?

Not so permanent that you can't get it back off if needed.



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Might there have been a thin lock nut on the under side?

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cdnpont wrote:

I suppose you could clean the threads on both and apply some medium strength locktite?

Not so permanent that you can't get it back off if needed.


Might deter theft also.

A shim (thin washer) would work.

I've seen what Ted is talking about on some shifters.



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Prince Edward Island

'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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Thinking some Teflon tape may change your tightening spot too. Try one wrap and then maybe another.

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Jerel


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Just as I thought, Stevenson has fake balls


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Johnnee D wrote:

Just as I thought, Stevenson has fake balls


 eyepopping.gif



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jmont64 wrote:

Thinking some Teflon tape may change your tightening spot too. Try one wrap and then maybe another.


 Went out and tried the T Tape. 

2 or so wraps top to bottom of some good thick tape... and it did the trick.

Didn't bottom out at the right position, but it became tight enough in the right spot that it should be good. Thanks Jerel!



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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timbuk wrote:
Johnnee D wrote:

Just as I thought, Stevenson has fake balls


 eyepopping.gif


 I can't believe any of those guys wanted to go for breakfast with him.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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cdnpont wrote:

 

 

48943300543_9d5531072c_c.jpg

Full size image here

48944186702_254a545feb_c.jpg

48943446193_af4d40b8fd_c.jpg


 These two drawings just caused me 2 hours of grief! Because of them, I now knew the exact correct holes the 2 screws use to hold the speedometer cable retainers to the firewall...............of course, I couldn't sleep if I didn't put them in the right spots...........the dimples are in the firewall...............can't get to them with a drill bit and drill because the engine is in the way.......stupid big blocks, I hate 'em...............

 

I spent 2 hours making a tool so I could drill those holes with my 3/8" air ratchet (angle drive). Got the shortest self tapping screw I could find, 9/32" head, ground down an drive adapter from 3/8"-1/4", ground down a 1/4" drive 9/32" socket, taped the bolt head into the now extremely shallow socket and just managed to squeeze all that in between the engine and firewall, and pulled the trigger on the ratchet eventually drilling my pilot hole on the correct dimple for both retainers. Also fought to get the 1" holesaw into the correct spot and now the grommet for the speedometer cable takes the cable through the firewall in the right place too.......

Thanks a LOT Mark for this (I think!!!).



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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Wow, intense! Good upper body exercise though eh Carl, lol. 

Small block, but I'll be sure to do this before the motor goes in, just like factory.

What clips did you use?



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Yup, sprawled horizontal over the front of the car back to the firewall. My back wasn't delighted and the air ratchet is low rpm so it took a while. I came in for lunch and nap after those 2 holes were drilled. Back out tonight to finish it off.

I had a couple in my miscellaneous hardware that look just like the ones in the picture(I save EVERYTHING off wrecked cars)!

Yes, DO drill those holes ahead of time. Do not forget or you will be sorry.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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Mark, I hope you don't mind if I add a bit of clutch stuff to your thread...

So I have my Muncie and all the manual trans stuff all out on the floor. I bought a new LUK clutch. I figured I'd better make sure the release bearings match because I know it's often an issue on our Canadian Pontiacs, lots of books seem to get it wrong. And guess what I see... this is the original on the right and the LUK on the left. 

20200117_204608[1].jpg

So now I figure great, I'll be ordering a new release bearing because LUK is one of those who can't figure it out.

But then I think, better take the two setups and put them side by side to compare. 

 

20200117_204528[1].jpg

20200117_204543[1].jpg

20200117_204516[1].jpg

 

A straight edge confirms the final operating heights as being the same, unless I'm missing something here. I just can't figure out why they can't just make it the same as the original. If a guy put one of these clutches in and a few years later orders a replacement release bearing, chances are good his first try will be wrong.

clutch.JPG



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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Just a reminder to if anyone is reading this gathering info for the 4 speed conversion, the clutch fork pivot ball inside the bellhousing is special on B bodies. I did the rookie mistake 8 years ago when I did a conversion and couldn't adjust the clutch because I had the wrong ball in the bellhousing. The correct B body ball is 1 13/16", the common one is 1 1/2". 

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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Mark your Pontiac 2 dr post project is going to be a very interesting car when completed. Look forward to seeing how it runs out. 

... how it turns out that is. 



-- Edited by gparis7 on Friday 17th of January 2020 10:11:04 PM

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Thanks so much for solid encouragement John. 

We've been back and fourth for a hell of a long time now hasn't it been? And you still have the king of the seldom seen 69 Parisienne BB imop. A treasure.

 

 



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4SPEED427 wrote:

Just a reminder to if anyone is reading this gathering info for the 4 speed conversion, the clutch fork pivot ball inside the bellhousing is special on B bodies. I did the rookie mistake 8 years ago when I did a conversion and couldn't adjust the clutch because I had the wrong ball in the bellhousing. The correct B body ball is 1 13/16", the common one is 1 1/2". 

 


 Great useful info on the bearing vs clutch types Carl. And keep adding any and all info to the post please.

I've bought a Lakewood adjustable ball. Which should help with any adjustment issues. Pricey though.

lake.JPG



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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I'm putting my car back together now with the correct Muncie (passenger side speedometer cable, thanks Kevin (70_SS_ACADIAN) for setting me up with the correct housingwink ). 

I bought this cable off a guy on ebay and it fits perfect, just the right length. He had the best price I could find. He lists it being for driver's side speedometer cable, or automatic but 2qwik2c (Andrew) confirmed that this one is about the perfect length, and he's right. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/65-66-67-68-Impala-SS-Biscayne-Speedometer-Cable/230992939404?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649



-- Edited by 4SPEED427 on Saturday 25th of January 2020 01:14:40 AM

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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So did you get the 73" one he has listed, or the 83" one the vendor says he can provide if you've got a passenger side speedo connection?

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I bought the 73" contrary to his listing. Andrew has an original 4 speed cable and measured it for me. I think his was actually around 70" or 71" so this was very close and it was the closest I could find. I don't know what a guy would do with a cable 10" longer than this. It would be pointless to have that length from what I can see.

The original from the 3 speed Saginaw (which also fit perfectly on the Muncie with the driver's side cable) is about 63"-64" long.

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Here is a condensed post of some pedal talk brought over from from the Garage thread,

From DonSSDD

Mark, on my 59, 62, and 63, you can slide the pedal shaft out for the automatic and slide the clutch and brake pedals in on the manual pedal shaft, no need to replace the mount on the firewall. May need to add some rubber bumper from the manual mount, but the holes are there for that.

cdnpont replies,

 Don, I think 65-70 does the same thing as yours as for sliding in and out. The only reason I changed the mount , was it came with the pedals, and is in better shape then the old one. And the old was was out of the car anyway. Also, I didn't want to damage the rubber stops prying them out of their square holes. They were in place and in nice shape. Same dimensions between the two, same holes, brake switch bracket the same, but probably a wee more rigid owing to that stamped in gusset hole. 

From 70 acadian SS, Some images of a pedal setup thought originally to be 65 as written on the frame, but likely is 1969 FS. The clutch pedal at least appears to be the 1969/70 shape with the stop tang pointing outward. 65-68 point inwards. Also notice the crossbar brace and stop switch.

/download.spark?ID=2298497&aBID=118110

/download.spark?ID=2298498&aBID=118110

/download.spark?ID=2298496&aBID=118110

/download.spark?ID=2298494&aBID=118110

/download.spark?ID=2298495&aBID=118110 

Here's an underdash shot of a 69 B, automatic. Body Looks similar if not the same as the unit in the pictures above,

ll.JPG

Heres' a few detailed shots of a 1966 B Body clutch and brake pedal setup. I know it's a 65-66 assembly confirmed by 2drpost Dave's image of an actual pedal. Mine is the same as this, same stop/pushrod mount.

55.jpg

Cleaned up with new stinky rubber offshore pedal pads. You know what I mean.

65-66 at least share the same mount, with the brake switch and bumper mounting openings being the same. Note the opening in the top of the stamping; Reason? For stiffening and wire access?

Could it be different or dependent on the stamping plant location? Also the 66 has splined firewall mounting fasteners, pressed into the stamping. Ease of assembly compared to 65?

IMG_3827[6011].jpgpedals10.jpg

66 vs 65

pedals11.jpgpedals 12.jpg

Some 65-70 pedal and linkage stuff From the CP MPC,

2248254291_4f9c0a78be_o.jpg2248258163_3172b1beb1_o.jpg

2249322496_cbbf80c1c2_o.jpg

65.JPG

 



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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I just looked at mine and it doesn't have the stamped opening in the top. Weird.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



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4 speed conversion links here;

 

 

Here's a thread from 4speed427, (Carl), of good description of the tunnel hole location and hump for a conversion. 

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64470121/66-4-speed-conversion-floor-hump-information/

Another from Carl reviewing the crappy 65-66 tunnel hump,

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64450086/4-speed-floor-hump-for-66-67-b-body-product-review/

A hump/hole positioning thread from ChevyTalk

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/290250/

Bellhousing and starter info by DZauto from ChevyTalk,

http://toms427impala.info/CT/Bellhousing-Flywheel.pdf

 

Please post any other good links you find to this thread, and I'll bring them into this post.



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I'm wondering about the spacer (6) shown in this diagram.

question; Is it of a height that could make a significant difference? I don't have this part.

 

From a 1965 Chevrolet assembly manual,

spacer.JPG



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