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Post Info TOPIC: 65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


I'd say the images above with the unrestored setup (with the stop tang facing out) on the table are 1970 B body. 1969 and 1970 are very similar, but 1970 uses the plastic neutral safety switch, and needs the hole in the clutch pedal arm for the neutral safety switch to clip into. The pedal I put in my 1970 was a 1969, and it took some figuring on where to drill that hole.



-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Saturday 1st of February 2020 06:42:17 PM

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Good observation.



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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cdnpont wrote:

I'm wondering about the spacer (6) shown in this diagram.

question; Is it of a height that could make a significant difference? I don't have this part.

 

From a 1965 Chevrolet assembly manual,

 


 You know how many of those B bodies I've stripped over the years. I've never seen that part before Mark.



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4SPEED427 wrote:
cdnpont wrote:

I'm wondering about the spacer (6) shown in this diagram.

question; Is it of a height that could make a significant difference? I don't have this part.

 

From a 1965 Chevrolet assembly manual,

 


 You know how many of those B bodies I've stripped over the years. I've never seen that part before Mark.


 (6)  3828841   Spacer R.D.         What's the R.D. stand for?



-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Sunday 2nd of February 2020 01:22:15 AM

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Weird, that number isn't even in the parts book.

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Started to measure for the tunnel hole and hump. I don't have a bench seat hump, and refuse to pay 100 bucks for the piece of crap that is re-popped. So I have a idea.

My plan is to open up the floor pie shaped. Staring in the center in such a way that I can pull and bend the sections up. Then mock up M20 with shifter and boot in place to position the metal boot flange in the correct orientation, then trim, bend and tack any of the curved and useful segments in place to the flange. Finally fitting in any other pieces to fill the voids, all the while trying to avoid hard edges as best. I'll make sure the hump follows a similar stock profile around the edge. Basically use the existing pan material as a hump. Combined with the metal boot flange it would certainly be strong enough. If it fails I'll just think of something else lol!

Edit; it wasn't practical to do the above, I just made a ring and started the hump from scratch.

I'm using Carls initial 10 7/8 from the forward floor pan tunnel ridge as a starting point. The 10 7/8 is the point of the center of the muncie shifter when in neutral. I'm coming 1" to the left off the estimated tunnel centerline. I used my own eye and a ton of images of the stock hump to figure out the rest, and have used some of the drivers floor pan details for better positioning.

I'm using what I think is a Nova boot and flange. It's the best I could come up with. I think at least in the opening size it's close to 65-66 bench.

49492590783_177c9d2f8d_z.jpghu.JPG

 



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This will be a fun car !

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In mapping out the hump, going through all the pictures as a reference, I'm looking at a great shot of the boot and hump from Carl's past 66 GP project.

But I'm struck by just how tall that stock 65-66 bench boot is. I know the stock boot is not quite all the way down to the base of the lever in the shot, but do you think the nova boot I have will work? Will it be tall enough?

49497177337_a8909b8034.jpg49497028961_55a76a9ea1_o.jpg

Along the molding line on the nova boot, relaxed from the inside it's only 2.5" tall. 3" on center if you pull up on the pleats a little. 3" on the inside to the taller left side relaxed.

But I'm worried it that it just becomes tight if you pull on it too much, and it would probably restrict the lever motion a bit.

Might I have to raise the hump a little to accommodate the shorter boot? Maybe its not to worry?

 

Any better boot alternatives? Any lines on a good stock one, or even a torn one?? I'll pay good money to make it right. cheers.

 

 



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Fabbing the hump.

Cut and pulled up the hump ring as seen on the tape template, transferred it to a piece of metal. Used .015" Galvanized. Pretty light, but easy to work. Cut it out using a expensive jigsaw with a very good blade. Easier than a zip wheel.

Formed it into the tunnel contour, teck screwed it down onto the template position. Happy with how it sat, removed it. Drilled starter holes with a step drill and cut out the hole with the jigsaw. Cleaned up the hole edge.

Dropped Kevin's loaner M20 Tail housing into the hole and bolted it onto the crossmember. Had the shifter bolted on the housing, set and marked in the neutral position. I have a stiff poly trans mount, so it doesn't allow the housing to sag at all. Made sure the mount bolts are 2/3-3/4 the way forward in the crossmember slotted bolt holes (per Carl), and centered side to side, the output seal face sitting square with the car body. Should be close.

Re mounted the hump ring. Will mount the boot over the lever, then mock up the correct boot ring position. The idea is to use some of the purposely leftover material "fingers" on the ring to cut/shape and tack weld up to the boot ring, to at least secure it's position. Then remove the assembly to the bench to "fill in the gaps" so to speak.

The boot ring that came advertised as fitting the Nova boot will have to be modified, it is nowhere close. Too big, 1" too wide.

Of course I had to bolt on the lever, just because.

ghh.jpgIMG_3894[6950].jpg

IMG_3895[6976].jpgIMG_3896[6980].jpg

Some guys will mock up with the entire trans housing and bell (maybe even the engine) in place. Not necessary. Just use a tail housing with a mount attached, make sure it sits about 2/3 forward in the crossmember elongated holes.  Also, as a bonus you can slip it through the hole you've cut, mounting it from inside the car. Tightening the bolts from underneath.

I'll finalize the hump position only when the engine and transmission are in place. Shifter and boot on. That way it can still be moved slightly for a good position.

Question;

I'm assuming, when the time comes, that the crossmember will have to be dropped down to allow the engine with trans (and shifter mechanism in place) to be snuck in coming up through the boot ring?

Or is it better to install the mechanism from underneath later?

Cheers.

 

March 5 2020, A little more fabbing on the hump today. I realize it isn't going to have the contours of the original, owing to the Nova boot being shorter than the stock boot. But once the trim ring with carpet goes in, it should be a good fake. 

I'm pretty happy so far. Will make some adjustments on the angle of the boot before welding it all up. Bring the front left edge down a bit.

IMG_3902[6997].jpgIMG_3901[6993].jpg

wwweee.jpgnb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by cdnpont on Thursday 5th of March 2020 05:40:22 PM



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The end result. Added some seam sealer (cheap, can't be smoothed, hence the ugliness!) and painted it Zinc primer. It's ugly, but it'll work and never be seen under the carpet.

It'll also be covered in sound deadener. Another task near completed!

hmp1.jpg

With deadener and the trim ring fitted. Not too bad looking!

shift6.jpg



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A Poncho Legend!

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Yeah, but I'll always remind you I know it's there..... JUST KIDDING, it's fine! As you say, it can't be seen and the shape of an original doesn't show at all through the carpet anyway.

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I could have probably saved 3 afternoons of labor by buying that janky repop hump. But would have it been as fun or satisfying? I got to use my welder after all!

I'm not sure it would have even worked with the Nova boot. It's much shallower than the stock boot, and probably would have had to been stretched down too far to the point of binding the handle.



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When you posted your photo's a few days ago, I couldn't figure out what you were doing. Now it makes sense.

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Mark,

Any thoughts on how to form the carpet around the hump shape?

You're doing a great job with this portion of the project.

-G



-- Edited by Greaser on Sunday 8th of March 2020 10:03:07 PM

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Lookin' good Mark!



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'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



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Greaser wrote:

Mark,

Any thoughts on how to form the carpet around the hump shape?

You're doing a great job with this portion of the project.

-G


Thanks George, been fun. I think the carpet will just drape down over the hump, not really following the contours too tightly. 

But I am assuming it will be a little bit of a challenge cutting the carpet accurately. Fitting the shifter with trim ring. One shot at getting it right.

Anyone done this with a new carpet? 

 

Nova boot with Nova carpet ring,

23.jpg



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cdnpont wrote:

Anyone done this with a new carpet? 

 

 


 Yep, and I screwed it up on the brand new carpet so I cut the original carpet and did it perfectly! I did a little bit at a time and I started with the shifter not sticking up through the opening. That way I could do a tiny hole in the center and work out from there. It was very time-consuming but I got it right in the end.



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Z Bar Bracket installation;

Thinking it worthy, I thought I'd add this little trick to the post. Kind of long for the small task, but you know how it goes...

 

It can be troublesome getting a clamp on the bar bracket and frame. It certainly can be done, but the clamp tends to slip around due to the different angles on the frame, top and bottom. But I do know it does and can get done successfully with a clamp.

Earlier, I had mocked up the bar and bellhousing to locate the bracket, and had left markings to locate it for welding later. So the time had come to weld it in.

In the past I have used these excellent self drilling and tapping bolts (Tec Screw) to locate and temporarily hold item for welding, marking etc, so I figured it would work great here.

I went and drilled a hole close to the forward edge of the bracket, forward edge to allow better clearance for the drill driver against the firewall.

Placed the bracket up on the location marks and made a mark on the frame through the hole. Struck a punch on that mark and drilled a very small pilot hole. Ran the tec screw with bracket in place in. Tightened the screw with a ratchet to test. 

Removed the bracket and bolt and cleaned up the welding surface on the frame. Re-installed the bracket finding that the base of it needed to be curved down slightly to meet the frame better. Removed and bent it to match the contour.

Re-installed it, tightened it fully, squared it up and welded it up. The advantage here is it is pulled really tight to the frame when tacking and welding it in. You could remove and fill the screw hole if required. I'm not bothering.

 

brt.jpgkk.jpg



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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My first question the day I get to see the car in person is going to be "Why does the Z-bar bracket have a hole in it?"

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All right, I'll fill the hole just for you Carl.



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I was fortunate enough to have a rolling chassis when I had the z-bar bracket welded on.  We mocked up the big block with the bellhousing & tranny, and temporarily put the z-bar in.   That put it in the same place as the photo's that had previously been posted, and right by the indentation of the frame rail.



-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Saturday 13th of June 2020 08:13:41 PM

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I remember doing he conversion on my black car (that Tom has now). When I was worrying about getting the bracket welded on in the right spot I think it was Vince who explained that you can hardly go wrong, that frame indentation really shows clearly where to place it. Once I saw that it was easy.

As Mark states, it's a challenge holding it on in the right spot when the body is on the frame because of all the clutter in that area. 



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4SPEED427 wrote:

When I was worrying about getting the bracket welded on in the right spot I think it was Vince who explained that you can hardly go wrong, that frame indentation really shows clearly where to place it. Once I saw that it was easy.

 


 Yep... I sent you everything off of that '65 Biscayne including the bracket. And pics after the fact as well, I believe?

 

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t46356911/another-amazing-cp-friendship-story/



-- Edited by 67Poncho on Saturday 13th of June 2020 10:03:36 PM

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7/15/ 2020

Lifted the 327 from the stand. Doing some preliminary work before mounting the bellhousing and trans.

 

Good quality made in USA oil infused bronze pilot bushing (Pioneer PB-656-HD), recommended by Carl. Cleaned up the edge of the crank bushing bore. Drove the bushing in with a piece of hardwood. 

Basic cast LUK branded 10.5" Flywheel. Wohlert? Mexico. Using ARP 12 point fasteners. 75 FT/Lbs.

RAM 92760 Muscle car series pressure plate and disc. Using grade 8, 3/8 - 16 x 1.5" bolts. By chance they have a shoulder that fits precisely into the threaded hole relief in the flywheel. Only had 2, will pick more up.

Luckily have a used M20 input shaft (with a very good nose) to use as an alignment tool. You can feel that it's precise. They say the plastic ones that come with the clutch don't work the best?

Small nosed starter and bolts courtesy of Carl (thanks Carl!). Discovered that the starter brace is different for this type of starter. Too short. Welded on a small extension tab. All good, but it's something to be aware of. Will check the drive mesh with the ring before I put the bellhousing on.

fw.jpgclutch.jpg

sup1.jpgsup2.jpg

7/16/20

Mounted the M20 to the 327. Nice snug fit bearing carrier to bellhousing. Gently pulled in with the 4 mounting bolts. Used red locktite on them as the bellhousing threads were not the best looking.

One thing to be aware of. You'll need to put your flywheel cover on before you mount the starter. It's not like an automatic cover.

matd.jpg

 



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8/2/2020

Pedals in and adjusted. Just a tiny bit of play off the bump stop on the clutch pedal, and the same with the brake. Clutch pedal sits higher just as they intended.

Z Bar and pushrods in. One thing of note, the springs I had bought for the conversion were useless. Waaay too long to be of any use, although the labels on the bags indicated them as being correct they were not. DIY modified them to work. They were from Hubbards. Any thoughts?

One good thing...the bar bracket on the frame was placed perfectly!

Another thing of note, looks like the lower arm on the z bar I bought had broken at some point, and was re welded...perhaps in the wrong spot? This made the upper adjusting rod too short to make the bump stop without running out of thread. The fork is a OEM original, the pivot ball is the right height (1 13/16"), so this must be it, or the lower rod was the wrong one for a B and was too short. I suppose I could have just bought an adjustable lower rod? I know the throwout bearing was installed into the fork correctly as seen in the image. Could the clutch assembly be just that little bit shallower than it should be? Any ideas? Hmmm...

Throwout.JPG

I just went ahead and cut the upper rod and added 1.5" to it. Now I have the thread I need. Done.

Back together... the action is super smooth and quiet, not too stiff pushing it in with the leg. I think it'll work well.

p1.jpgpopp.jpg

rez.jpg

 



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