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"Get the points out"


Todd suggested I go see Tiny's in Ingersoll, ON

A long time Canadian Poncho friend.

Other people have told me he is the best small block Chev guy around.

After seeing my car he suggested that the points have to go.

The biggest problem he said is that no one makes a decent set of points any more.

He said I would be best to find a old 350 Delco rotor.

"Unless you are going to spend big bucks, it's better than the offshore stuff"

Does anyone have one on a shelf ?

Advice is welcome biggrin

P.S.

Todd, Tiny says "Hi'

And stop in, next time you are in the area !!!

 

 



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Randy(Muttwood)



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Put the old points in the garbage where they belong and replace them with PERTRONIX electronic conversion. Rid your self of stupid useless points, condensor and regular up keep of those said useless items and there up keep. The conversion is a direct bolt in with no mods what so ever and you never have to concern yourself with DWELL adjustment ever. Up to this point i have converted my last five oldies and it just mystifies me why anyone would want points in their oldie. Unless your vintage ride is a museum piece or just sits in the garage collecting dust all year long. Cheers.



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1957 Pontiac Pathfinder Deluxe sedan restored 261 six

1974 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon low milage original 400 V-8



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RE: points


I have to disagree with long stroke. I have had the same set of points in my 55 since 2004 over 10,000 miles and no trouble in the 261 six cylinder. I have seen two sets of Petronix ignitor ignitions fail one in a flat head Pontiac six and another in a small block chev. The old flat head the owner forgot the key on the on position and the Petronix fried. The small block for no know reason. If you want to convert to Electronic Ignition I would suggest getting a GM HEI distributor and wires as a complete unit. Inexpensive used and a lot of voltage appx 60,000 volts. You will also need the correct wire connector plug in from a parts car. I am old school and still use a timing light and a dwell /tach meter when setting up a point style distributor. AC Delco still have points condenser rotor and distributor caps available. GM use to have a set of heavy duty points available that would take 8000 rpm without breaking down. Points style distributors were used in millions of cars. Al



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RE: "Get the points out"


ABC123 wrote:

He said I would be best to find a old 350 Delco rotor.

 

 I thought you were talking about points.  How did you jump to a 350 Delco rotor?



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RE: Get the points out


I think he means Tiny said to get an HEI distributor.



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RE: "Get the points out"


Taylor55 wrote:

I have to disagree with long stroke. I have had the same set of points in my 55 since 2004 over 10,000 miles and no trouble in the 261 six cylinder. I have seen two sets of Petronix ignitor ignitions fail one in a flat head Pontiac six and another in a small block chev. The old flat head the owner forgot the key on the on position and the Petronix fried. The small block for no know reason. If you want to convert to Electronic Ignition I would suggest getting a GM HEI distributor and wires as a complete unit. Inexpensive used and a lot of voltage appx 60,000 volts. You will also need the correct wire connector plug in from a parts car. I am old school and still use a timing light and a dwell /tach meter when setting up a point style distributor. AC Delco still have points condenser rotor and distributor caps available. GM use to have a set of heavy duty points available that would take 8000 rpm without breaking down. Points style distributors were used in millions of cars. Al


 I'm with you Al. 

It's been decades, but it seems to me I did convert one car I had in the 70's to electronic ignition, and that car was never licensed, it only saw the drag strip. The only set of points that ever failed me was in the garage on the black 66 Grande Parisienne I sold a few years ago to Tom in Edmonton. And they fried because I forgot the key on for a week. 

Points and condenser have never left me on the road, so even if they do now I'd still say that's better than just about any HEI or any other electronic conversion I've ever seen. I don't understand why anyone would need to have an electronic ignition to put up and down the road to church and car shows on Sunday. A set of points will do that just as well.

I do the same setting up, set the dwell with a meter and timing is with a light/by ear combination.



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delco rotor.jpg

If I could find a complete later model GM factory vacuum system, he said it would be best.

He had one but he was saving it for his son's car.



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Randy(Muttwood)



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Petronix Ignitor is a very good option, maintains original look but converts to electronic ignition. Pretty easy to install yourself as well. 

https://pertronix.com/categories

 

Pertronix Ignitor



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I've converted my a couple of my cars to "Breakerless SE" electronic ignition modules. They use a single wire to maintain the stock appearance. Otherwise, I purchased 4 or 5 good quality NAPA points a few years ago that I use in my non-electronic cars.



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RE:


I try to please those on both sides of the discussion (but I'm not a politician). I installed Petronix, mainly because I have little spare time for regular maintenance, thereby saving me checking the points periodically. However, just in case, my very high quality set of points reside in the trunk with the travelling tool kit!



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RE: "Get the points out"


64PARCONUK wrote:

I try to please those on both sides of the discussion (but I'm not a politician). I installed Petronix, mainly because I have little spare time for regular maintenance, thereby saving me checking the points periodically. However, just in case, my very high quality set of points reside in the trunk with the travelling tool kit!


 DITTO, converted the 409 to Pertronics + 40,000 coil & keep old points & hardware in G/box!!!  Car fires up in a 1/2 turn hot or cold, no point bounce at high RPM !!!  Safari has the GM HEI style distributor & starts the same way!!!



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The problem I have with HEI is they can let you down on the side of the road and the fix is not as easy as replacing a set of points.  The pickup in the HEI has a white or beige wire and a green wire.  One or both of these fine wires are known to break inside the casing so you have no visible signs anything is wrong.  Sometimes you are pulling away from a stop and the car up and dies, often starting back up, but quites when you go to pull away.  Saw a guy like this on the side of the road last year and everyone was telling him it was a gas problem, NOT.  In order to change the pickup you have to pull the distributor, remove the gear and pull out the rod.  To set them up properly you need brass fielder gauges.  Yes, the HEI ignition system is less effected by wet conditions and may even give better fuel mileage but I'm sticking with points.  Back in the day when I had HEI ignition systems I always carried the necessary tools to do this repair on the side of the road.  Point systems will usually give you signs your engine isn't running properly, HEI not so much!  I'm not familiar with the after market system that others have mentioned so have no opinion on it.



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ABC123 wrote:

delco rotor.jpg

If I could find a complete later model GM factory vacuum system, he said it would be best.

He had one but he was saving it for his son's car.


 Just be aware that all HEI distributors are not the same. In the eighties there was electronic spark control. This system had a knock sensor and a module to control ignition timing. There is still a vacuum advance but the distributor wont work without the module and it was a poor system. I changed a lot of distributors on these vehicles, mostly pickups. Also the distributor shaft is different, having a lot of retard built in so that the module could advance the timing at idle, and then retard the timing at cruising speed to lower N0X emissions. If you install a standard HEI module in a spark control distributor you wont be able to get enough advance. 

Paul



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Glenn Musgrave wrote:

The problem I have with HEI is they can let you down on the side of the road and the fix is not as easy as replacing a set of points.  The pickup in the HEI has a white or beige wire and a green wire.  One or both of these fine wires are known to break inside the casing so you have no visible signs anything is wrong.  Sometimes you are pulling away from a stop and the car up and dies, often starting back up, but quites when you go to pull away.  Saw a guy like this on the side of the road last year and everyone was telling him it was a gas problem, NOT.  In order to change the pickup you have to pull the distributor, remove the gear and pull out the rod.  To set them up properly you need brass fielder gauges.  Yes, the HEI ignition system is less effected by wet conditions and may even give better fuel mileage but I'm sticking with points.  Back in the day when I had HEI ignition systems I always carried the necessary tools to do this repair on the side of the road.  Point systems will usually give you signs your engine isn't running properly, HEI not so much!  I'm not familiar with the after market system that others have mentioned so have no opinion on it.


My opinion very much is akin to this;
Pertronics, is just another electronics conversion that is destined to leave you stranded.

I don't know that I agree with the assertion that you cannot get good points, because last I checked, you can still buy good stuff without having to go to new old stock components.

I briefly ran an HEI in my (former) '73 Firebird, then it crapped the bed - I did diagnose it as a bad magnetic pickup, but shortly there after I put a points distributor back in and have only run points in my calssic's since that time.

I sell my HEI distributors, and keep points - which as mentioned are easy to diagnose and repair - and will never leave you stranded on the side of the road.

I generally these days chalk up any stigma against points to people who generally don't know how they work, or think that because it's old technology, it must be unreliable.



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I can't speak for anyone else, but I always enjoyed maintaining old school stuff.  To me, setting the points is just one of those old car things that you do, like greasing the suspension and setting up the carb.  There was always a certain level of satisfaction to be attained by an old-fashioned tune-up.

So for me... points and condenser all the way (if you can get good parts - I have zero experience with cheap overseas junk).  Keep an extra set in the trunk or glovebox just in case, so you will always be good to go.

Just my opinion, of course.



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Each to his own and what ever turns ones crank but i have had nothing but PERTRONIX conversions for about 20 years now on a number of vintage cars and never never never had a single issue. My 57 Pontiac's 261 has had the system now for about 18 years and i put 4,000 miles a year on this motor. Like others i keep a set of points and condenser in my tool box in the trunk but i have never required it and i doubt i ever will. What ever fills your sails. Cheers. 



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George,

I think the points are for people who don't have full time jobs biggrin

My points are two years old and need replacing and I will look at all options.

Thanks everyone for you honest opinions.

All your thoughts are very well appreciated !



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Randy(Muttwood)



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Look in to "Breakerless SE" electronic conversion. Pertronix needs a full 12V to run, so you'll need to modify your wiring to your distributor to get 12V to it, and Pertronix also shows a 2nd wire.  Breakerless SE only uses the single wire as original from your coil. It'll look stock, and no wiring changes.



-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Thursday 19th of September 2019 10:59:50 PM



-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Thursday 19th of September 2019 11:00:54 PM

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I remember Tiny (member here). He should post on this thread.



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ABC123 wrote:
...

My points are two years old and need replacing and I will look at all options.

...

 Granted if you're looking to race the car, mileage & time might dictate a shorter interval of replacing them, but for everyone else, you might be astonished as to how little real maintenance points need - assuming of course your car is set up and running properly to begin with.



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Luke 23: 39-43 / Ephesians 2: 8-9  / 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12



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HEI for me...but bought a intake that is too high at the back end for the large GM distibutor, Thats what I hear anyways  ?? will check forsure when new HEI gets here  !! my fault I should have done some checking before buying it.But never heard of such a thing ..so do I buy another intake ,or put points in..Question is can I put a points distributor in a 78 car that came with HEI ?? ..Thinking a different intake is probably best !  shame its suposed to be a good intake..



-- Edited by Bill shuba on Friday 20th of September 2019 04:52:05 PM



-- Edited by Bill shuba on Friday 20th of September 2019 05:13:37 PM



-- Edited by Bill shuba on Friday 20th of September 2019 05:16:00 PM

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Glenn Musgrave wrote:

The problem I have with HEI is they can let you down on the side of the road and the fix is not as easy as replacing a set of points.  The pickup in the HEI has a white or beige wire and a green wire.  One or both of these fine wires are known to break inside the casing so you have no visible signs anything is wrong.  Sometimes you are pulling away from a stop and the car up and dies, often starting back up, but quites when you go to pull away.  Saw a guy like this on the side of the road last year and everyone was telling him it was a gas problem, NOT.  In order to change the pickup you have to pull the distributor, remove the gear and pull out the rod.  To set them up properly you need brass fielder gauges.  Yes, the HEI ignition system is less effected by wet conditions and may even give better fuel mileage but I'm sticking with points.  Back in the day when I had HEI ignition systems I always carried the necessary tools to do this repair on the side of the road.  Point systems will usually give you signs your engine isn't running properly, HEI not so much!  I'm not familiar with the after market system that others have mentioned so have no opinion on it.


Yup. nod.gif  Out of the blue, when a module fails, you can be stranded.

On a points-type setup, get a points file & also reset the gap and you are good to go. Not great, but good.

 

HEI is superior, but it isn't perfect. Like everything in life it is a compromise.



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RE: C3BX


The edelbrock C3BX does not have enough clearance for the HEI distributor. You will need a newer style that will work for you. The C3BX was made in the 60's and early 70's just prior to the torquer and performer series intakes. There is a market for the C3BX with the rat rod guys and guys wanting to build a 60's 70's period correct hot rod. Sell or trade the C3BX and get a used performer or similar rpm range intake.$100 should get you a good used intake. Al



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