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Post Info TOPIC: Fram oil filters, just about the worst on the planet.


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Fram oil filters, just about the worst on the planet.


I held back on commenting as this is a very subjective topic, but reading this brings something big to mind. Does anyone here take their cars to one of those quick in-and-out lubes? I do all the time, and they spin some kind of god knows who - white bodied filters on. And I don't really seem to care too much.

Maybe I should start to care ...

As a side-note, my old summer BB 67 gets what I've figured to the best setup, a huge 40% larger than stock (made in USA) K&N filter, 100% non bypass. The filter adapter is also non bypass. ALL that lighter 10-30 VR-1 oil passes through the filter at startup. I swear the oil on the dipstick stays seriously clean. Darkens, but never jet black. Never any gas smell on the stick so no dilution. I've never seen anything quite like it. The beast runs pretty dirty rich too, and the oil stays very clean. Go figure, is it the filter?

I think a collapsing cheap filter would have killed my 496 long ago. So maybe we should be a little more careful if we actually care about our daily driver. Good post!

 



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Other than my new GMC which has free oil changes for two years, I cannot remember when the oil

was changed in one of our daily drivers or classics or motorcycles or lawn mowers by anyone other than me.

This goes back 50+ years as soon as I started at York Mills Pontiac in September 1964.

Remember greasing the older cars. If someone else is doing it they are not likely

to c/o a seized fitting but on your own car you will spend whatever time it takes to ensure grease gets into the joint.

 

 



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cdnpont wrote:

I held back on commenting as this is a very subjective topic, but reading this brings something big to mind. Does anyone here take their cars to one of those quick in-and-out lubes? I do all the time, and they spin some kind of god knows who - white bodied filters on. And I don't really seem to care too much.

Maybe I should start to care ...

As a side-note, my old summer BB 67 gets what I've figured to the best setup, a huge 40% larger than stock (made in USA) K&N filter, 100% non bypass. The filter adapter is also non bypass. ALL that lighter 10-30 VR-1 oil passes through the filter at startup. I swear the oil on the dipstick stays seriously clean. Darkens, but never jet black. Never any gas smell on the stick so no dilution. I've never seen anything quite like it. The beast runs pretty dirty rich too, and the oil stays very clean. Go figure, is it the filter?

I think a collapsing cheap filter would have killed my 496 long ago. So maybe we should be a little more careful if we actually care about our daily driver. Good post!


 Mark, is the K&N filter hat you are using a HP 3002?



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It's the 6002 Greg

The idea behind such a big filter is to substantially increase the filter surface area, in that at startup, without any bypass, the oil pressure is able to come up quicker when cold. I'm running a HV pump as well.

A smaller filter and no bypass might prove to be a little more restrictive in that scenario. But in any case, you can't go wrong with more filter media on your classic engine..



-- Edited by cdnpont on Sunday 1st of December 2019 11:41:51 AM

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Fram has a premium brand that's made for a longer oil change duration. Are they crap too? I've been known to use them on the DD from time to time. We don't put many miles on our daily drivers- maybe 8000/year. I change the oil in the Spring and in the Fall regardless of mileage.

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Canadian Poncho wrote:

Fram has a premium brand that's made for a longer oil change duration. Are they crap too? I've been known to use them on the DD from time to time. We don't put many miles on our daily drivers- maybe 8000/year. I change the oil in the Spring and in the Fall regardless of mileage.


 This is what i was wondering about as well. They are about $16.00 and like Todd said, are suppose to last much longer. It would be sad to pay almost three times as much and still have a crap filter. 



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If I think of it I'm going to pull some different brands out of our used oil filter barrel at work and cut them open. I've been meaning to do that and always forget, this thread is a good reminder. We see all sorts of brands come in on vehicles we do oil changes on.

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4SPEED427 wrote:

If I think of it I'm going to pull some different brands out of our used oil filter barrel at work and cut them open. I've been meaning to do that and always forget, this thread is a good reminder. We see all sorts of brands come in on vehicles we do oil changes on.


 Carl, you are the man !



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If I remember....!

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My 350 has a Purolator, L30050 I think is the number. Who makes Purolator? I will be changing the oil later and more than likely I will be using NAPA Gold. I used Fram for a lot of years but stopped last year after reading and seeing the videos on them.

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I used to use Fram filters for all my cars, and honestly have never had a problem with any of them.

However, since all the hooplah about them on the internet, and after seeing them cut down, I switched to Mobil 1 filters as they generally are regarded as one of the best.  No problems with these, either.

Also, I think you can never go wrong buying 'company' filters from your dealer - the OEMs have pretty tight specifications on the filters that are acceptable, since they are warrantying their engines, plus it doesn't look good on any company to have premature engine failures - especially if it was caused by an oil filter with their name on it.



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I was always impressed with the OEM Toyota filters when I worked at the dealer. Even the oil seal was "prelubed"

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MC wrote:

I used to use Fram filters for all my cars, and honestly have never had a problem with any of them.

However, since all the hooplah about them on the internet, and after seeing them cut down, I switched to Mobil 1 filters as they generally are regarded as one of the best.  No problems with these, either.

Also, I think you can never go wrong buying 'company' filters from your dealer - the OEMs have pretty tight specifications on the filters that are acceptable, since they are warrantying their engines, plus it doesn't look good on any company to have premature engine failures - especially if it was caused by an oil filter with their name on it.


 There is no way of knowing how bad any given oil filter is, unless you cut it open and see for yourself. I used Fram for many years because i loved that hand gripper. Now i get a sick feeling wondering about how many of them might have collapsed, or come unglued or who knows what else. I will never trust them again. bleh



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4SPEED427 wrote:

Yes I kind of chuckle when I see that when I'm selling an oil filter now. The positive side to going back 50 years to the canister style again is you can see what quality the filter is that you're installing!


 That is an excellent point. It is worth the bit of extra work having a canister type, just to see what the element looks like. 



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Bought an ac delco at lordco yesterday, black canister,opened the box at home,"made in china",Usually buy Napa gold,but closed on sundays here now! The delco can goes back to lordco....

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Carl, any updates on the oil filter dissections. Or should i say Dr. Carl, surgeon of oil filterology. biggrin



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No, I just noticed them sitting on my workbench a few minutes ago! I hope to cut them open before Saturday morning when the gang arrives for coffee.

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Curiosity got the best of me! 

I went and cut open the AC Delco and the Fram. Surely the Fram can't still be a piece of crap after being exposed all these years as being a piece of junk...........

You be the judge, Fram on the left, AC on the right.

20191211_225719[1].jpg



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Thank you Carl, for an update. Cheers. 



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I have more to do. I'll update as I do them. No surprises so far!

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long stroke wrote:
4SPEED427 wrote:

Yes I kind of chuckle when I see that when I'm selling an oil filter now. The positive side to going back 50 years to the canister style again is you can see what quality the filter is that you're installing!


 That is an excellent point. It is worth the bit of extra work having a canister type, just to see what the element looks like. 


After researching screw-on filter adapters for my '64, I'm leaving my '64 as an original canister type. I bought some NAPA Gold canister filters.



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4SPEED427 wrote:

Curiosity got the best of me! 

I went and cut open the AC Delco and the Fram. Surely the Fram can't still be a piece of crap after being exposed all these years as being a piece of junk...........

You be the judge, Fram on the left, AC on the right.


 Wow! That's cut and dry.



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Canadian Poncho wrote:

I was always impressed with the OEM Toyota filters when I worked at the dealer. Even the oil seal was "prelubed"


 My '89 Corolla GT-S was the car that I started (& ended) taking to quicky lube places. The car was FWD so the filter was right behind the hot exhaust manifold & clearance was next to non-existent. I always told them to use the Toyota filter as it was a better piece. It was so tight under there and I could usually hear them cussing under the car, then they'd ask for "the claw". No problem. Them I had one guy who figured he needed to cool down my exhaust manifold with water. I got a new exhaust manifold out of that one after it cracked. The car was in excellent shape up until the 6-car accident at 375k & only used oil when the valve seals started to go (they got replaced).

 

When I heard that GM was discontinuing the old PF51 filters with the older logo I went out & bought a big box of them. It always looks good to have an AC Delco logo in a prominent position on the side of a Chevy straight six. Through '67 they used the old canister style cartridges but were usually upgraded to the spin-on type at first oil change.

To think the Chevy six didn't have an oil filter until 1962. And air-cooled VW Beetles didn't have them even by 1979.

 

One thing I haven't seen in a while but they used to sell at Canadian Tire was an oil analysis kit. You would get a mid-stream sample at oil change time and it would get sent to a lab. It was very sensitive. The idea behind it was for marine use where you don't change a 10,000 quart crankcase in a ship on a whim, you do it when necessary and also to sample the wear materials accumulated in the oil. Dang, I should have had  the dealer perform that on my first oil change on the new car (they claim 15k oil change intervals, even the first change when new   cynic.gif .)



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Pontiacanada wrote:
4SPEED427 wrote:

Curiosity got the best of me! 

I went and cut open the AC Delco and the Fram. Surely the Fram can't still be a piece of crap after being exposed all these years as being a piece of junk...........

You be the judge, Fram on the left, AC on the right.


 Wow! That's cut and dry.


 I didn't count the pleats but at a glance it's gotta be close to double the filter area on the Delco. 

And that "paper" top and bottom that provides the structure. This one is still ok but I've seen many pictures of the Frams where the cartridge is collapsed inside the can.

But the Fram has a nice grip on the outside to grab onto when you are installing and removing it!!!



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